The Gate of Heaven שַׁעַר הַשָּׁמָיִם

[CoreIssue]

There are some questions I have. Please take them seriously. I’m not going to be offended if you totally correct and show where it is wrong. In the Old Testament there are words such as ‘terrible’ and ‘dreadful’ so much so that they cried out that the word should not be spoken to them any more. Torment. Wrath. Separation. The unapproachable Fire of God. So please consider Jacob’s words of ‘dreadful’. Is this not in coming before the Law of condemnation against all sin. A God that can’t be touched. Jacob ...how ‘dreadful’ he stood in the house of God. But there is no more condemnation for those in Christ. Is Christ not (Spirit) head of the Church (His body) and therefore the house of God?

What is this place of condemnation of sin(man)under the mosaic law?
1)a mountain that can’t be touched.
2)...that burned with fire.
3)....unto blackness
4) ...unto darkness
5)...and tempest
6)...the sound of a trumpet; the voice of words which they that heard Intreated to not be spoken to them.
7) where if a beast touched the mountain it was stoned.
8)...or the beast thrust through with a dart.
So terrible was the sight that Moses said he exceedingly feared and quaked.

Isn’t this the torment cast out, death overcome by Christ (Hebrews 12:18-25). Peace. In that Christ casts out fear of flesh...We come to mount Sion, to the city of the living God, an innumerable company of angels, to the assembly and church of the first born...to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, to the blood of sprinkling..speaking better things than that of Abel.

The question regarding Jacob’s ladder ...is it by flesh or by Spirit? The ladder is not by the Mosiac law and condemnation of sin unto death but by the righteousness of Christ the first born of the assembly and church(body). Is it still ‘dreadful’ ‘terrible’ unapproachable?

Jesus Christ said “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” Is His voice the sound of a trumpet, a voice that when they hear it they intreat to hear the voice no longer? (Hebrews 12:19)

John 7:37
[37] In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Luke 18:16
[16] But Jesus called them unto him , and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Be careful relying on the KJV. It translates a lot of words and correctly.

So some of those really dreadful words are still condemnations but not in the meaning of the KJV words.

 

[marks]

But the mystery goes deeper here. Through Him we have access to the very throne of God. We can walk in His perfection. Whether or not that will be realized by each one of us in our lifetime is not the issue. We should see this as a body thing whereby the brethren bring treasures from heaven.

It is like when friends visit a foreign land.....and bring us something back. So it is with spiritual gifts. These encourage us to wards the spiritual inclination to be available for God.

OK. I think I see where you're coming from.

I see this all as something more "here", something immediate to every believer. We enter through faith, into the life God has given to each of us here, now, In Christ, filled by Christ, the Holy Spirit pouring out of us towards each other.

We stand before the throne of God above even now, all believers, if we had celestial eyes we would see. Yes! We have access to God. Yes! We can walk in His perfection. And yes! We share treasures both new and old . . .

I see this as a body thing where we build each other up in love, by the gifts the Holy Spirit has given to us.

And agreed, we are to give ourselves as living sacrifices, through which God will work His amazing and wonderful plan!

Much love!
Mark

Much love!
Mark

 

[CoreIssue]

Consider these and surrounding verses:

"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it" Psalm 132:13-14

"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." Heb 4:11

What exactly does the word, Zion, mean? One meaning is a "parched place" that which each of us is or was before we met the Master. Consider then what happens when we have drunk of the Living Water:

"Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water." John 4:10

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." John 7:38

Zion Is another name for the location of Jerusalem.

What is Mount Zion? What is the biblical meaning of Zion?

 

[marks]

Ps 91 "He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. "

John 15:4
" Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

I guess I meant as a believer. I see that we are already in Him, and so telling someone who is born again to make their abode in God is like saying be born again again.

And I like Psalm 91, we live with Him! He keeps us safe.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos

Hey there. Very good thread. Love it!! Love your posts.

You mentioned Jesus being the Door to Heaven...I tend to believe that "Heaven" is God Himself. Jesus is our door into being One with God ..is that not the race that we run...

I don't think it is a play on words when reading Philippians 3:14
" I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." I see our prize being God Himself. Our heart and our desire...
I believe He IS the streets of gold etc etc....

What say you?

Yes absolutely. His reward is Himself.

 

[marks]

Yes absolutely. His reward is Himself.

Genesis 15:1 "After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward."



What better truth than I am His, and He is mine!

 

[Episkopos]

God has chosen Zion as His abode.


Ps. 68:16 Why do you look with envy, O rugged mountains, at Mount Zion, where God has chosen to live, where the LORD himself will live forever?
Ps. 76:2 His tabernacle is in Salem; His dwelling place also is in Zion.
Ps. 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

Where is Zion? In the heavenlies!

How are we seated together with Christ in the presence of God? Through abiding in Christ. Jesus Christ is the door....the gateway into heaven.

There is more than one level of meaning to this. But we all have access by faith into the fulness of that meaning...into the very presence of God.

Beliefs won't do it. It takes a certain kind of faith. The faith OF Jesus.

The bible says...the just shall walk by HIS faith. Whose faith? It depends on what level of justification we are speaking of. The truth is multi-faceted (that's why there is so much disagreement and confusion) The truth is like a wheel inside a wheel.

But the deeper part of the truth ( the inner wheel) is that we are to walk in Zion WITH Jesus which makes us to walk on this earth just as He did.

It is the lack of this depth of understanding which has taken the truth out of it's powerful context to change the world. By making it something that beliefs can handle without faith.

 

[Episkopos]

Zion Is another name for the location of Jerusalem.

What is Mount Zion? What is the biblical meaning of Zion?

But God is Spirit and He abides in the Jerusalem which is above...which is the mother of all who are born from above. We are reconciled to the living God in THAT place through faith into (and through) Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Being born of the Spirit is to be born in Zion...the new Jerusalem (the mother (birthing) of us all).

This psalm is what Jesus was referring to when He told Nicodemus that he must be born again (from Zion) from above.

Ps 87:1 His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2 The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.
4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there.
5 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.
6 The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.
7 As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.

Three times it states that people are born in Zion....IN her. This is the Jerusalem which is above. The holy city. The city of our God and of His saints.

 

[Waiting on him]

There is a trend in todays teachings that would minimize the depths of Christ so as not to seem to leave anybody out. But this trend has hurt the church and it's potential for growth and power in a decisive way.

We need to start thinking as a body. We need the gifts in the body...even if it isn't us ourselves having them. We need to start thinking as a team.

The bible speaks constantly of impossible things. Jesus says that we ought to heal the sick and raise the dead. We need to rise to the challenge of faith...not shield people from the high calling in Christ.

I see him heal the sick and raise the dead. I even experienced it personally

 

[Waiting on him]

But God is Spirit and He abides in the Jerusalem which is above...which is the mother of all who are born from above. We are reconciled to the living God in THAT place through faith into (and through) Christ.

True Christ is the vail

 

[Episkopos]

I see him heal the sick and raise the dead. I even experienced it personally

If that is possible then why not walking with the Lord in Zion, the heavenly city? Is this not what it means to "walk in the Spirit"?

This is the true meaning of rapture and translation.

 

[Waiting on him]

If that is possible then why not walking with the Lord in Zion, the heavenly city? Is this not what it means to "walk in the Spirit"?

This is the true meaning of rapture and translation.

I agree. But as for the healing of the literal flesh? Why? It profits nothing

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Be careful relying on the KJV. It translates a lot of words and correctly.

So some of those really dreadful words are still condemnations but not in the meaning of the KJV words.

The children don’t carry the message of condemnation but the message of freedom from condemnation through the Son. The good news.

 

[Episkopos]

True Christ is the vail

2 Cor. 3:16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

 

[Waiting on him]

2 Cor. 3:16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Hebrews 10:20 KJV
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Tecarta BibleThe flesh rent torn broken for us

 

[marks]

But the deeper part of the truth ( the inner wheel) is that we are to walk in Zion WITH Jesus which makes us to walk on this earth just as He did.

It is the lack of this depth of understanding which has taken the truth out of it's powerful context to change the world. By making it something that beliefs can handle without faith.

I guess what is bothering me . . . are you talking about some kind of "second experience" with God, after begin regenerated, that gives us access to greater spiritual abundance?

Or are you talking about simply coming to understand better what we have now?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

I guess what is bothering me . . . are you talking about some kind of "second experience" with God, after begin regenerated, that gives us access to greater spiritual abundance?

Or are you talking about simply coming to understand better what we have now?

Much love!
Mark

It is both. Taking one away from the other is to speak a half-truth. Only the 2 combined is the truth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

2 Cor. 3:16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Makes me consider 2 Corinthians 3:13
[13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

 

[VictoryinJesus]

2 The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.

I guess this explains better the question earlier ...of Jacobs ladder. ? Why the gates of Zion more that all the dwellings of Jacob?