The Gate of Heaven שַׁעַר הַשָּׁמָיִם

[Helen]

No disrespect, but a lot of your claims have been disproven.

Says you...
We will see my friend, we will see.

 

[CoreIssue]

Says you...
We will see my friend, we will see.

Of course in time we will see everything.

 

[CoreIssue]

Of course in time we will see everything.

View attachment 5578

I have around 300 collected over the years.

 

[Helen]

I have around 300 collected over the years.

I have "stolen" your little man.

 

[CoreIssue]

I have "stolen" your little man.

On my website there are plenty more you can use. Of course you have to be a member to access.

 

[Helen]

On my website there are plenty more you can use. Of course you have to be a member to access.

View attachment 5581

They are adorable.

I have forgotten your link...I had it once, but didn't bookmark it.

 

[CoreIssue]

They are adorable.

I have forgotten your link...I had it once, but didn't bookmark it.

Christian Talk Zone

 

[Helen]

Christian Talk Zone

Done..request sent.
But you know we often do not agree on things...LOL

 

[CoreIssue]

Done..request sent.
But you know we often do not agree on things...LOL

Not many

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Marriage Super of the Lamb

Read and liked it. It was interesting. From your link: “In correspondence with the Jewish bride remaining hidden in the bridal chamber for a period of seven days after arrival at the groom's father's house, the Church will remain hidden for a period of seven after arrival at Christ's Father's house in heaven. While the seven year Tribulation Period is taking place on the earth, the Church will be in heaven totally hidden from the sight of those living on the earth.

Just as the Jewish groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber at the conclusion of the seven days with her veil removed, so that all could see who his bride was, so Christ will bring the Church out of heaven in His Second Coming at the conclusion of the seven year Tribulation Period in full view of all who are alive, so that all can see who the true Church is (Col. 3:4).”

A few thoughts: ‘Hidden’ doesn’t necessarily have to be removed to be hid? The ‘veil’ is removed when? Don’t agree that we are now separated from Christ. His seed is in us. (1 John 3:9) Which leads to the question of if following the Jewish custom as your link suggests ...seed comes with intimacy? Birth comes after intimacy. Where is this in the Jewish custom?

1 Peter 1:23
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[CoreIssue]

Read and liked it. It was interesting. From your link: “In correspondence with the Jewish bride remaining hidden in the bridal chamber for a period of seven days after arrival at the groom's father's house, the Church will remain hidden for a period of seven after arrival at Christ's Father's house in heaven. While the seven year Tribulation Period is taking place on the earth, the Church will be in heaven totally hidden from the sight of those living on the earth.

Just as the Jewish groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber at the conclusion of the seven days with her veil removed, so that all could see who his bride was, so Christ will bring the Church out of heaven in His Second Coming at the conclusion of the seven year Tribulation Period in full view of all who are alive, so that all can see who the true Church is (Col. 3:4).”

A few thoughts: ‘Hidden’ doesn’t necessarily have to be removed to be hid? The ‘veil’ is removed when? Don’t agree that we are now separated from Christ. His seed is in us. (1 John 3:9) Which leads to the question of if following the Jewish custom as your link suggests ...seed comes with intimacy? Birth comes after intimacy. Where is this in the Jewish custom?

1 Peter 1:23
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

During the seven days the groom is the only one that can enter the bridal chamber. To be plain about it he does so to have sex, to be intimate with his bride.

Hidden means to be removed from sight. But in the custom all the guests new exactly where she was what was going on.

And yes, seed comes with intimacy.

But you can have to remember in the Jewish custom the couple is actually married at the sharing of the cup.

Like with being born again. We share in the cup cup, meaning the blood of Christ. And in the marriage's supper it becomes even more intimate, as shown with her emerging in the finery of a wife.

So we are not separated from Christ. We are just at that stage of the wedding custom.

But yes, everyone at the wedding is hidden from the earth.

The bride is unveiled when she leaves the bridal chamber.

Another part of the ceremony, I do not believe was mentioned, was that when the groom consummate some marriage the rag with her blood on it is stuck out the door chamber for everyone to see prove she was a virgin worthy of marriage.

There is a lot going on there and it takes time to take it all in all in.

 

[Enoch111]

This is the New Jerusalem: Spirit.

Not according to Scripture. While it is spiritual in the sense that everything of the world, the flesh, and the devil has been excluded and shut out, it is literal, real, visible, tangible, and heavenly, holy, and separate from sinners.

Obviously, if it is "heavenly Jerusalem" it will only display heavenly attributes. But that does not automatically translate into ethereal or "spirit" only. If that were the case, God would not have given us very specific details about its construction.

And what is your (or anyone's) objection to the New Jerusalem being as real and tangible as Jerusalem on earth (which will also be redeemed and restored in the future in order to become the city of God on earth)?

 

[CoreIssue]

Not according to Scripture. While it is spiritual in the sense that everything of the world, the flesh, and the devil has been excluded and shut out, it is literal, real, visible, tangible, and heavenly, holy, and separate from sinners.

Obviously, if it is "heavenly Jerusalem" it will only display heavenly attributes. But that does not automatically translate into ethereal or "spirit" only. If that were the case, God would not have given us very specific details about its construction.

And what is your (or anyone's) objection to the New Jerusalem being as real and tangible as Jerusalem on earth (which will also be redeemed and restored in the future in order to become the city of God on earth)?

It will be occupied by the raptured, resurrected and glorified saints on the new earth.

 

[Enoch111]

It will be occupied by the raptured, resurrected and glorified saints on the new earth.

Yes, BUT IT IS ALREADY OCCUPIED and you have been given the Scripture!

And not ON THE NEW EARTH. The New Jerusalem will remain a heavenly body, otherwise it could not give light to the New Earth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And what is your (or anyone's) objection to the New Jerusalem being as real and tangible as Jerusalem on earth (which will also be redeemed and restored in the future in order to become the city of God on earth)?

I have nothing against it.

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes, BUT IT IS ALREADY OCCUPIED and you have been given the Scripture!

And not ON THE NEW EARTH. The New Jerusalem will remain a heavenly body, otherwise it could not give light to the New Earth.

Revelation 3:12
12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

Revelation 21
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And what is your (or anyone's) objection to the New Jerusalem being as real and tangible as Jerusalem on earth (which will also be redeemed and restored in the future in order to become the city of God on earth)?

Thought more about your question last night. You said: “real and tangible” do you mean if Spiritual then it is less-than real and tangible? can’t speak for the (or anyone’s objection) of your post but consider Spirit is more-than real and tangible than what we cling to so hard to keep but passes away.

1 Corinthians 2:9-10
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country , that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

So I genuinely ask you why so many despise the “the words I speak to you are Spirit” in favour of imposing strictly literal? Don’t mean that ugly...really want to understand.

 

[Helen]

Thought more about your question last night. You said: “real and tangible” do you mean if Spiritual then it is less-than real and tangible? can’t speak for the (or anyone’s objection) of your post but consider Spirit is more-than real and tangible than what we cling to so hard to keep but passes away.

1 Corinthians 2:9-10
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country , that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

So I genuinely ask you why so many despise the “the words I speak to you are Spirit” in favour of imposing strictly literal? Don’t mean that ugly...really want to understand.

Amen..excellent post.
....

There is nothing more real than God and His spiritual Kingdom.

Well said.

 

[Enoch111]

Thought more about your question last night. You said: “real and tangible” do you mean if Spiritual then it is less-than real and tangible? can’t speak for the (or anyone’s objection) of your post but consider Spirit is more-than real and tangible than what we cling to so hard to keep but passes away.

Not what we cling to and what passes away (on earth) but what God has PERSONALLY constructed for all eternity in Heaven.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

You are trying to dismiss that by making it ethereal and non-tangible. Spiritualizing Scripture when it is not called for. That does not glorify God in the least. He showed Abraham a vision of this city, and Abraham looked for (and longed for) this city.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (Heb 11:8-10)