Calvinism is a Cult

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I agree with all you have written here. I agree that God Almighty does hate evildoers and that the greatest evil is that of refusing to believe in His Son, whose ultimate mission is to reconcile ALL things to the Father.

Could you respond to post 1122? thanks in advance!

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

No, what she was saying (and I agree with her) is that you fit into the basic stereotype that we have of Calvinists.

I always reserve the right to peek in on the posts of those whom I have on Ignore.

Could you respond to post 1125? thanks

 

[Enoch111]

You are not representing what he posted.

So I guess you would have substituted "the elect" for "the world"? But that would have been tampering with the Word of God.

While the translators of the KJV were mostly of the Reformed persuasion (especially the Puritans, but even the Anglicans) they dared not tamper with the words of Scripture. And the honest lexicographers were compelled to say that kosmos also means *the inhabitants of the world* or *the human race* in certain contexts (e.g. John 3:16,17).

And since this presents a serious dilemma to Calvinists, they wrest or twist the meaning of words in order to accommodate their doctrine. Also, I was recently reviewing Calvinist Spurgeon's comments on Limited Atonement. He had a great deal to say about it, but he could not produce any Scripture to support his position. It was all about if Christ had died for all then all would be saved etc. (which ignores the necessity of obedience to the Gospel).

 

[Mjh29]

So I guess you would have substituted "the elect" for "the world"? But that would have been tampering with the Word of God.

While the translators of the KJV were mostly of the Reformed persuasion (especially the Puritans, but even the Anglicans) they dared not tamper with the words of Scripture. And the honest lexicographers were compelled to say that kosmos also means *the inhabitants of the world* or *the human race* in certain contexts (e.g. John 3:16,17).

And since this presents a serious dilemma to Calvinists, they wrest or twist the meaning of words in order to accommodate their doctrine. Also, I was recently reviewing Calvinist Spurgeon's comments on Limited Atonement. He had a great deal to say about it, but he could not produce any Scripture to support his position. It was all about if Christ had died for all then all would be saved etc. (which ignores the necessity of obedience to the Gospel).

We do not ignore the necessity. We just recognize that man in and of himself cannot and will not obey. Just because you cannot and will not obey does not make it any less necessary.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Ah-ah-ah! Just because I have argued against YOUR assertion that there is an "apparent contradiction" between John 3:16 and Psalm 5:5 that hardly means that I have "made your case for you". To quote another of your gathering, "that's a huge exaggeration and not even remotely true."

Here is what I believe FYI: I believe that God the Father calls all who hear (some refuse to hear) to come to repentance and faith. Many refuse to hear--Isaiah 30:9; Jeremiah 13:10 and 17:23; Ezekiel 2:7; Luke 16:31; Acts 7:57 and 28:27; 2 Timothy 4:3-4). Yet, He is patient, wanting all to come (2 Peter 3:9). I also believe that the Father and the Son send the Holy Spirit to "convince the world of sin, righteousness and judgment" (John 16:8). The Godhead helps them to believe, through their testimony(Matthew 3:16-17) and then furthers their faith by lessening their doubts (Mark 9:24). The martyrs are especially prized by God because martyrdom shows the high level of faith and trust in God--for all who see. It has been said that many Romans came to faith because the waves of severe persecution by them did not dampen the ardor of Jesus' followers.

Those who will be condemned are those who refuse to respond to the call, in repentance and faith, because 1) their deeds are evil, 2) they have no regard for the truth and 3) they do not have God's love in their hearts, nor do they love Him. (John 3:18-21; John 8:54-56 and John 5:42). Theirs is the more egregious sin--that of refusing to believe, because they do not love the truth (John 18:37). Jesus said that if the unsaved have many sins, they will receive "many stripes"(Luke 12:47-48).

LORD willing I will get to the above mess a little later.

Hopefully others will learn and see the texts taken out of context above. Cross Talk I'm going to disagree with you and dismantle your teaching, so, if you want a head start you can start insulting me before I get back.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

No, what she was saying (and I agree with her) is that you fit into the basic stereotype that we have of Calvinists.

I always reserve the right to peek in on the posts of those whom I have on Ignore.

I agree I fit into your loathing, stereotyping and bias. You get twisted, angry and insult just like Cross Talker simply because your posts are challenged and errors are shown you. That's what you mean by typical, or must be, because nowhere did I insult her or anyone else. The thing is, if you, her and others of your ilk are challenged, you feel insulted. I'd say there needs to be some growing up since that is the case.

Now go show us all one thing I said to Cross Talker that warranted her insulting response.

Not once did I insult her, go look. I challenged her statements and conclusions.

The fact is you, her, core issue, enoch111 and others are the typical anti-Calvinist's who insult, libel and attack us simply for asking for proof, challenging your teachings, trying to show you how you take Scripture out of context, or disagreeing with your conclusions. There is also the endless stating of things which we do not believe or teach. You all need to see this and admit this is what takes place -- all of it.

This anti-Calvinist behavior is a fact that is witnessed on many forums.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

So I guess you would have substituted "the elect" for "the world"? But that would have been tampering with the Word of God.

While the translators of the KJV were mostly of the Reformed persuasion (especially the Puritans, but even the Anglicans) they dared not tamper with the words of Scripture. And the honest lexicographers were compelled to say that kosmos also means *the inhabitants of the world* or *the human race* in certain contexts (e.g. John 3:16,17).

And since this presents a serious dilemma to Calvinists, they wrest or twist the meaning of words in order to accommodate their doctrine. Also, I was recently reviewing Calvinist Spurgeon's comments on Limited Atonement. He had a great deal to say about it, but he could not produce any Scripture to support his position. It was all about if Christ had died for all then all would be saved etc. (which ignores the necessity of obedience to the Gospel).

You are not informed at all on the position. It is not the word world that is the issue...but rather the term whosoever will is not in the text. What is in the text is everyone believing, and continuing on in a state of believing

 

[justbyfaith]

post #1125:

"justbyfaith,

[A better scripture to use to proclaim the love of the Lord for sinners is:

Rom 5:8, But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

In this, it says that God loves the sinner; and therefore if there is another verse that says that He hates the sinner, I would conclude that God has a love/hate relationship with sinners.]
.
.I know people like to just pick a verse and go with it JBF. Can i suggest something here. There is another way to understand this passage.
God does not love all sinners savingly. let's take a look at what is being taught here. The passage is speaking to justified believers, not the unsaved. I will highlight in red what is spoken to us

.
Romans 5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

These highlighted portions are not written to the unsaved.

now we can look at part two

It simply doesn't hold water; and therefore I did not and even still do not have the need to answer it.

 

[justbyfaith]

but rather the term whosoever will is not in the text.

It is in the biblical text, however, even if it is not present specifically in John 3:16 (although, technically, it is).

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

post #1125:


It simply doesn't hold water; and therefore I did not and even still do not have the need to answer it.

post #1125:


It simply doesn't hold water; and therefore I did not and even still do not have the need to answer it.

You cannot answer it, but you should have said...i completely see it now...I had it out of context...I cannot answer it because it will show I was mistaken, thanks for the correction...
here it is again;
Romans 5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
are the unsaved justified by faith? Do the unsaved have peace with God?
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
do the unsaved do this?
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
do the unsaved glory in tribulation
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
do the unsaved have the Holy Spirit?
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
are the unsaved reconciled to God?
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

These highlighted portions are not written to the unsaved.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You cannot answer it, but you should have said...i completely see it now...I had it out of context...I cannot answer it because it will show I was mistaken, thanks for the correction...
here it is again;
Romans 5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

These highlighted portions are not written to the unsaved.

Hopefully the light will be turned on for him, he has been corrected numerous times on his misusage of the Romans 5 text.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

It is in the biblical text, however, even if it is not present specifically in John 3:16 (although, technically, it is).

No..it is not.....it is all the believing ones, everyone believing



15 so hina that everyone pas who believes pisteuō inen himautos may haveechō eternalaiōnios lifezōē.

16 “Forgar thishoutōs is how Godtheos lovedagapaō ·ho theho worldkosmos: he gavedidōmi hisho one and onlymonogenēs Sonhyios ·ho that hina everyone as who believes pisteuō in eis him autos should notmē perishapollymi butalla haveechō eternalaiōnios lifezōē

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Hopefully the light will be turned on for him, he has been corrected numerous times on his misusage of the Romans 5 text.

I would like just once to see someone just say...wait a minute, I did not see that before, but I see it now.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I would like just once to see someone just say...wait a minute, I did not see that before, but I see it now.

I've witnessed it a few times, though it doesn't happen often. I'm sure you have as well. We saw one recently, who came to me like Nicodemus did Jesus, at night, (through a PM) lol. But then he openly confessed and was then subsequently attacked.

Sad, it is few and far between. People do not realize they've been hoodwinked by Pelagian, Finney and Sandeman doctrine, and think it's the historic faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

You cannot answer it, but you should have said...i completely see it now...I had it out of context...I cannot answer it because it will show I was mistaken, thanks for the correction...
here it is again;
Romans 5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
are the unsaved justified by faith? Do the unsaved have peace with God?
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
do the unsaved do this?
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
do the unsaved glory in tribulation
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
do the unsaved have the Holy Spirit?
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
are the unsaved reconciled to God?
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

These highlighted portions are not written to the unsaved.

It still doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned.

Christ died for us while we were still sinners; He loved us while we were in a sinful state. This is what the text clearly says; and the context of a verse never nullifies the truth of a verse (this is sound hermeneutics).

The verse therefore clearly tells us that God loves the sinner; while you are trying to tell us that God only hates the sinner. I am telling you that God both loves the sinner (for that he is created in the similitude of God, and because God is love); and hates the sinner (for that his iniquity does damage to people in His kingdom that He loves).

 

[justbyfaith]

No..it is not.....it is all the believing ones, everyone believing



15 so hina that everyone pas who believes pisteuō inen himautos may haveechō eternalaiōnios lifezōē.

16 “Forgar thishoutōs is how Godtheos lovedagapaō ·ho theho worldkosmos: he gavedidōmi hisho one and onlymonogenēs Sonhyios ·ho that hina everyone as who believes pisteuō in eis him autos should notmē perishapollymi butalla haveechō eternalaiōnios lifezōē

I really shouldn't even have to point out the error of this, but it becomes necessary when people begin to twist Bible texts to make them fit their own warped theology.

Jhn 3:14, And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Jhn 3:15, That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Now the next verse I am not going to quote for you, I am only going to reference it; because if I quote it to you you will only reject its testimony anyway, as y'all have done in times past. But "whosoever will" is evident within the verse:

Rev 22:17

 

[justbyfaith]

15 so hina that everyone pas who believes pisteuō inen himautos may haveechō eternalaiōnios lifezōē.

16 “Forgar thishoutōs is how Godtheos lovedagapaō ·ho theho worldkosmos: he gavedidōmi hisho one and onlymonogenēs Sonhyios ·ho that hina everyone as who believes pisteuō in eis him autos should notmē perishapollymi butalla haveechō eternalaiōnios lifezōē

1Co 14:9, So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10, There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11, Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

It still doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned.

Christ died for us while we were still sinners; He loved us while we were in a sinful state. This is what the text clearly says; and the context of a verse never nullifies the truth of a verse (this is sound hermeneutics).

The verse therefore clearly tells us that God loves the sinner; while you are trying to tell us that God only hates the sinner. I am telling you that God both loves the sinner (for that he is created in the similitude of God, and because God is love); and hates the sinner (for that his iniquity does damage to people in His kingdom that He loves).

We will let those who read see that you ignore what the Holy Spirit had Paul write to us...and you insert your false ideas in place of holy scripture...got it...

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I really shouldn't even have to point out the error of this, but it becomes necessary when people begin to twist Bible texts to make them fit their own warped theology.

Jhn 3:14, And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Jhn 3:15, That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Now the next verse I am not going to quote for you, I am only going to reference it; because if I quote it to you you will only reject its testimony anyway, as y'all have done in times past. But "whosoever will" is evident within the verse:

Rev 22:17

You cannot admit the truth once again...no surprise here. We will let those who read learn

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

1Co 14:9, So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10, There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11, Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

And now another out of context verse that als also fails to address the discussion. Not doing anything to get to the truth of scripture but I understand