Can We as Saved Christians Lose Our Salvation?

[Episkopos]

Look at the context of the 'endure to the end' statement. It involves the tribulation period. It is not referring to our salvation.
Few enter in because they refuse to come by way of the Cross. Instead they attempt to come by way of their own righteousness which woefully falls short of the required righteousness which is bestowed freely (imputed) on account of Christ's righteousness through faith.

A race isn't over until it's over.

 

[prism]

A race isn't over until it's over.

Philippians 1:6 NKJV
[6] being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

Hebrews 12:2 NKJV
[2] looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[marks]

Then you didn't actually read the passage.
Jesus stated clearly that the person RECEIVED the Word (Him) with joy - and then fell away.

This is not a person who rejected the Word or simply let it pass on by.
It is a born again person who fell away . . .

This person has no root in themselves. I'd say the Word never penetrated into their heart.

"When anyone hears the the word of the kingdom, and understands it not . . .", that is the sowing of the seed. Hearing the word of the kingdom, just like in Romans, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God.

This one receives the word with joy, but not to take it into their heart. They give a great and glowing mental assent, but no root.

And because they have no root, they only endure for a while, to then fall away.

Like John wrote, they were with us, but not of us, or they would have remained.

Much love!
Mark

 

[BreadOfLife]

You're showing your ignorance. No one was born again until after the resurrection of Christ.

Is there something wrong with you??
ALL of the verses I presented were written AFTER the Resurrection - by YOUR own admission in post #58.

ALL of the verses are written to BORN AGAIN Christians.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This person has no root in themselves. I'd say the Word never penetrated into their heart.

"When anyone hears the the word of the kingdom, and understands it not . . .", that is the sowing of the seed. Hearing the word of the kingdom, just like in Romans, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God.

This one receives the word with joy, but not to take it into their heart. They give a great and glowing mental assent, but no root.
And because they have no root, they only endure for a while, to then fall away.

Like John wrote, they were with us, but not of us, or they would have remained.
Much love!
Mark

Then you don't understand the parable.

The FIRST seed that fell on the path - was NEVER received.

The seed that fell on "rocky" ground WAS received with joy - and they lasted a while before they fell away during hardship. You cannot "fall away" from Christ if you NEVER had Him to begin with.
This is about born again believers who didn't endure.

 

[marks]

Then you don't understand the parable.

The FIRST seed that fell on the path - was NEVER received.

The seed that fell on "rocky" ground WAS received with joy - and they lasted a while before they fell away during hardship. You cannot "fall away" from Christ if you NEVER had Him to begin with.
This is about born again believers who didn't endure.

Those whom you call born again, the Lord calls those who "had no root".

As to the meaning of the parable, the seed/the gospel is sown into different types of people, and whether they simply ignore it, or got happy over it for a little while, or were too wrapped up in the world, none of these were fruitful, only the ones who received with an honest heart. Apparently none of the others did that. But only the last was fruitful.

Just like the other parables, say, the wheat and the tares. They look similar. But one is true, the others are not.

Much love!
Mark

 

[CoreIssue]

A race isn't over until it's over.

The race is life and the runners Saints.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Those whom you call born again, the Lord calls those who "had no root".

As to the meaning of the parable, the seed/the gospel is sown into different types of people, and whether they simply ignore it, or got happy over it for a little while, or were too wrapped up in the world, none of these were fruitful, only the ones who received with an honest heart. Apparently none of the others did that. But only the last was fruitful.

Just like the other parables, say, the wheat and the tares. They look similar. But one is true, the others are not.

Much love!
Mark

You can try to rationalize this away all day long and you'll STILL be wrong.
Jesus explicitly stated that the seed that fell on rocky ground ACCEPTED the Word with JOY.

They ONLY fell away during hard times.
There are stories of Early Christians who worked hard for the Church spreading the Word and converting others - yet recanted when they were about to be martyred. These are the ones He was talking about - and everybody ELSE who turns away when times get tough.

You CAN'T fall away from Him if you're not WITH Him to begin with . . .

 

[marks]

You can try to rationalize this away all day long and you'll STILL be wrong.
Jesus explicitly stated that the seed that fell on rocky ground ACCEPTED the Word with JOY.

They ONLY fell away during hard times.
There are stories of Early Christians who worked hard for the Church spreading the Word and converting others - yet recanted when they were about to be martyred. These are the ones He was talking about - and everybody ELSE who turns away when times get tough.

You CAN'T fall away from Him if you're not WITH Him to begin with . . .

OK. Then this person, in your estimation, will not appear with Jesus in glory when He is revealed?

Much love!
mark

 

[BreadOfLife]

OK. Then this person, in your estimation, will not appear with Jesus in glory when He is revealed?

Much love!
mark

If they were Christians who apostatized - the, NO, according to Scripture.
But not by MY judgement or estimation.

 

[marks]

If they were Christians who apostatized - the, NO, according to Scripture.
But not by MY judgement or estimation.

In which case you have a conflict with Colossians 3, which states that all the born again will be there with Him.

Much love!
mark

 

[CoreIssue]

Is there something wrong with you??
ALL of the verses I presented were written AFTER the Resurrection - by YOUR own admission in post #58.

ALL of the verses are written to BORN AGAIN Christians.

And that statement, I honestly don't remember which post I was referring to.

All I remember was that post quoted verses from when Christ was still with the apostles.

 

[CoreIssue]

If they were Christians who apostatized - the, NO, according to Scripture.
But not by MY judgement or estimation.

Now we need a clear definition of what you call Christian.

I seen you call cults Christians on this forum.

If one was never born again then they are never Christian.

If born again they will never cease to be a Christian. Romans 8 leaves no vagary on that issue.

 

[BreadOfLife]

In which case you have a conflict with Colossians 3, which states that all the born again will be there with Him.

Much love!
mark

That's NOT what Colossians 3 says at ALL.

The text repeatedly admonishes the born again believer NOT to fall into sin and to cooperate with the grace we've been given:

Col. 3:1-17
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. And whatever you DO, whether in word or deed, DO it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And that statement, I honestly don't remember which post I was referring to.

All I remember was that post quoted verses from when Christ was still with the apostles.

No - I posted about 9 passages - ALL written after the Resurrection.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Now we need a clear definition of what you call Christian.

I seen you call cults Christians on this forum.

If one was never born again then they are never Christian.

If born again they will never cease to be a Christian. Romans 8 leaves no vagary on that issue.

A Christian is a baptized, born again, Trinitarian follower of Christ.

Secondly - I never referred to ANY cult as "Christian".
If you're gong to make this kind of accusation - then show some proof. Otherwise, consider yourself exposed again . . .

 

[marks]

That's NOT what Colossians 3 says at ALL.

Colossians 3:1-4
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

It most certainly does say that.

Much love!

 

[CoreIssue]

A Christian is a baptized, born again, Trinitarian follower of Christ.

Secondly - I never referred to ANY cult as "Christian".
If you're gong to make this kind of accusation - then show some proof. Otherwise, consider yourself exposed again . . .

A Christian is a baptized, born again, Trinitarian follower of Christ.

Secondly - I never referred to ANY cult as "Christian".
If you're gong to make this kind of accusation - then show some proof. Otherwise, consider yourself exposed again . . .

Well you should have. You have defended Catholicism and didn't you defend Jane Doe?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Colossians 3:1-4
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

It most certainly does say that.

Much love!

No - it doesn't.
It is full of admonishments and conditions., as I underlined in post #74.

If you go through those verses - there are THIRTEEN (13) conditions and admonishments to qualify.
You only posted a couple of verses - completely OUT of context. I provided the FULL context . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well you should have. You have defended Catholicism and didn't you defend Jane Doe?

How did I defend Jane Doe?
What was the context??

I could defend Adolph Hitler, depending on the context. Point me to the actual POST where I "defended" her.

As for the Catholic Church being a "cult" - that's YOUR opinion for which you have ZERO evidence.
The ravings of an angry anti-Catholic don't amount to a hill of beans without evidence . . .