Can We as Saved Christians Lose Our Salvation?

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,

Could you explain what you mean by this?

What is there about "enter into the kingdom life" that grants salvation, that "faith in Jesus' propitiatory death and resurrection" does not? You seem to be talking about a 2-step salvation, Trusting Jesus to be born again, but that's not good enough, unless you "enter into the Kingdom life" also. Am I hearing this right?

Much love!
mark

It begins by Jesus Christ in us as a sample.....then we surrender all to buy the product. So then yes, the way to God is a 2 step process. In the old days they called it the baptism of the Spirit.....or the 2nd blessing. But I see it as changing locations....into abiding in Christ. I think too much confusion has been brought into the old way of saying it with the tongues thing and the other "manisfestations."

But Christianity has not changed. We still need to strive to enter into His rest.

 

[Episkopos]

Those who have been regenerated (new birth) have been united with Christ (His work, a work without hands) and will endure to the end.

That's not biblical but your own personal interpretation that contradicts Jesus.

 

[marks]

It begins by Jesus Christ in us as a sample.....then we surrender all to buy the product. So then yes, the way to God is a 2 step process. In the old days they called it the baptism of the Spirit.....or the 2nd blessing. But I see it as changing locations....into abiding in Christ. I think too much confusion has been brought into the old way of saying it with the tongues thing and the other "manisfestations."

But Christianity has not changed. We still need to strive to enter into His rest.

We have very different ideas on what it means to be "born again", or "born of God".

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

We have very different ideas on what it means to be "born again", or "born of God".

Much love!
Mark

Actually being born makes one a babe in Christ. I'm talking about spiritual puberty....basically unknown in the sunday nurseries of the modern church.

 

[marks]

Actually being born makes one a babe in Christ. I'm talking about spiritual puberty....basically unknown in the sunday nurseries of the modern church.

Being born again makes one a child of God. Of course we grow, but it is in Christ, not in ourselves, not in our understanding of mysteries, not in anything else, we have every spiritual blessing. Every one, in Christ.

If any be "in Christ", he is a new creature. So we know that being in Christ equates to being born again. Romans 8 explains that we are "in Christ" if the Spirit lives in us.

"sunday nurseries of the modern church". There's a broad brush!

I see no "second blessing" to the believer in Christ anywhere in the Bible. I see that believers are "filled with the Spirit" from time to time. But not this idea that we start as "level 1 Christians", then progress to "level 2 Christians" because we understand the mysteries, or have received some "second baptism".

But I guess that's just me.

Much love!
mark

 

[prism]

That's not biblical but your own personal interpretation that contradicts Jesus.

What's not biblical? That there are those who have been born anew? Or that those who are born again will endure to the end?

 

[Episkopos]

What's not biblical? That there are those who have been born anew? Or that those who are born again will endure to the end?

Jesus said...they who endure to the end will be saved....not all will endure to the end. Jesus also said that many try but few are able to enter in the gate.

What is that gate? Jesus is the gate to heaven. Very few will enter in and find rest in the heavenly realm of the Spirit.

I think our modern privileged generation can't stomach the idea that everything isn't provided freely at the outset. Some seeking will be required.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This topic comes up about every 3 months - and the answer is the SAME:
We can absolutely lose our secure place with God - and the Scriptures are CLEAR about this.

In order to believe the man-made invention of OSAS - you must completely ignore the language used Scripture that warns us about falling away.
The following passages speak NOT to unbelievers - but to converted, born again CHRISTIANS:
Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (Epignosis). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (Epignosis) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a deaf, dumb and blind person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God take away somebody’s "share" of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

The word "apostasy" is defines as a renunciation of a once-held belief.
You cannot apostatize if you NEVER truly believed.

 

[Jun2u]

Can We as Saved Christians Lose Our Salvation?

The title of this topic should have been, “Can A Saved Person Lose His Salvation?”

I say this because there are many “Christians?” who were taught on a concept that eternal salvation IS ASSURED once they have accepted, believed, and confessed Jesus as their Savior: not knowing they do not have the capacity or the power to do all that as declared in Romans 3:10-11, and also because they are spiritually dead.

“Who then can become saved was the question? The answer came “with God all things are possible.”

There are only two key verses whereby anyone can be saved, and they are John 6:44 and John 6 37.

All three persons in the Godhead are involved in the salvation of an individual.
a) The Father predestines, chooses, elects and names the individual to be saved from the foundation of the world.
b) The Lord Jesus redeems and pays for all of his sins by His sacrifice on the cross.
c) The Holy Spirit seals the individual’s salvation by His indwelling of the person.

Support verse… “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God”.
1 John 3:9

This means all of the sins committed by this individual have been redeemed by Christ past, present, and future.

The 64 Million Dollar Question? “If the above is true (which it is) what sin can this individual commit that will threaten him with hell"? NONE

Therefore, a saved person can NEVER lose his salvation because no one can separate him from the love of God (Romans 8:35-39).

To God Be The Glory

 

[Helen]

It's not your computer, it's chrome.

Do not trust anything Google. They even play politics with their search engine.

This site, like mine, uses Xenforo. Xenforo and chrome do not play well together, as stated on the Xenforo
Site.

I like palemoon for my primary browser and firefox as my backup. Both outperform chrome and are more private. Chrome shares your information.

My search engine is duckduckgo.

Off topic I know...but I am dumb. What is the difference between Browser and Search engine ? I thought they were one and the same!!

 

[Helen]

We can absolutely lose our secure place with God - and the Scriptures are CLEAR about this.

Hey BOL
Agree, we can absolutely lose our PLACE/Position ...but too many equate that with salvation. A son is a son is a son.
The prodigal was a son..a stinking son, a pig pen son...nevertheless his Father looked daily for His sons return. The son was not un-son-ed.

We know that Jesus showed many times positions in the kingdom.( the talents etc) ..and when James and John said " Grant that we may sit on your left and right in the kingdom. Jesus did not say..."Don't be daft, there is no positioning" He said " It is not mine to give, but God's..."

That is why Paul "pressed toward the prize of the High calling."
God is the Prize..and in Him are many places ( mansions)

 

[Nancy]

Hey BOL
Agree, we can absolutely lose our PLACE/Position ...but too many equate that with salvation. A son is a son is a son.
The prodigal was a son..a stinking son, a pig pen son...nevertheless his Father looked daily for His sons return. The son was not un-son-ed.

We know that Jesus showed many times positions in the kingdom.( the talents etc) ..and when James and John said " Grant that we may sit on your left and right in the kingdom. Jesus did not say..."Don't be daft, there is no positioning" He said " It is not mine to give, but God's..."

That is why Paul "pressed toward the prize of the High calling."
God is the Prize..and in Him are many places ( mansions)

Well put, very much so! I now have a new way of looking at this. Un-son-ed

 

[Nancy]

Off topic I know...but I am dumb. What is the difference between Browser and Search engine ? I thought they were one and the same!!
View attachment 5583

So did I.

 

[CoreIssue]

We need to endure to the end to be "saved" in an eternal way. Otherwise we are engaging in salvation by obedience to Christ with the evidence of love for others as He loves.

even if we are exercising spiritual gifts, that in no way guarantees our acceptance into the kingdom later on. We need to enter into the kingdom life now and walk in His salvation if we want some kind of security. Jesus Christ IS our security. Not our beliefs.

You are pushing salvation by works.

Off topic I know...but I am dumb. What is the difference between Browser and Search engine ? I thought they were one and the same!!
View attachment 5583

Chrome, palemoon, firefox, Opera and such are browsers.

Google, duckduckgo, startpage etc search engines.

You have to have a search engine in a browser to look for anything. When you first install a browser it comes with the search engine of its choice, which you can change.

This is a browser
Chrome, palemoon, firefox, Opera and such are browsers.

This is a search engine
DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.

I am very privacy and security minded. That is why I use pale moon and duckduckgo as my mains.


Google, duckduckgo, startpage etc search engines.

You have to have a search engine in a browser to look for anything. When you first install a browser it comes with the search engine of its choice, which you can change.

This is a browser

 

[Helen]

You are pushing salvation by works.


Chrome, palemoon, firefox, Opera and such are browsers.

Google, duckduckgo, startpage etc search engines.

You have to have a search engine in a browser to look for anything. When you first install a browser it comes with the search engine of its choice, which you can change.

This is a browser
Chrome, palemoon, firefox, Opera and such are browsers.

This is a search engine
DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.

I am very privacy and security minded. That is why I use pale moon and duckduckgo as my mains.


Google, duckduckgo, startpage etc search engines.

You have to have a search engine in a browser to look for anything. When you first install a browser it comes with the search engine of its choice, which you can change.

This is a browser

Got it...I think.
Making notes on it. Thank you!

 

[Nancy]

You are pushing salvation by works.


Chrome, palemoon, firefox, Opera and such are browsers.

Google, duckduckgo, startpage etc search engines.

You have to have a search engine in a browser to look for anything. When you first install a browser it comes with the search engine of its choice, which you can change.

This is a browser
Chrome, palemoon, firefox, Opera and such are browsers.

This is a search engine
DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified.

I am very privacy and security minded. That is why I use pale moon and duckduckgo as my mains.


Google, duckduckgo, startpage etc search engines.

You have to have a search engine in a browser to look for anything. When you first install a browser it comes with the search engine of its choice, which you can change.

This is a browser

You sure know your tech stuff!

 

[marks]

What part of "for he has promised, I will never leave you nor forsake you" is ambiguous?

Never is never is never. And I don't see any qualifiers, like, unless you blow it big time . . .

 

[Nancy]

Got it...I think.
Making notes on it. Thank you!

Guess what I got back ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Yay

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hey BOL
Agree, we can absolutely lose our PLACE/Position ...but too many equate that with salvation. A son is a son is a son.
The prodigal was a son..a stinking son, a pig pen son...nevertheless his Father looked daily for His sons return. The son was not un-son-ed.

We know that Jesus showed many times positions in the kingdom.( the talents etc) ..and when James and John said " Grant that we may sit on your left and right in the kingdom. Jesus did not say..."Don't be daft, there is no positioning" He said " It is not mine to give, but God's..."

That is why Paul "pressed toward the prize of the High calling."
God is the Prize..and in Him are many places ( mansions)

Then you'll have to explain why BOTH the author of Hebrews and Peter speak of those who have an Epignosis of Christ being in danger of losing it all (Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

"Epignosis" isn't just a knowledge or intellectual assent. The Greek terms for that are Oida or Gnosis. Epignosis, on the other hand is defined as a full, experiential and relational knowledge - mush like a spouse has.

This is not simply a "Catholic" teaching. Many Protestant scholars ALSO teach this about Epignosis:
Richard Chenevix Trench notes, “In comparing epignosis with gnosis, the “epi” must be regarded as an intensive use of a preposition that gives the compound word a greater strength than the simple word alone possesses” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 300).

Quoting Culverwell, he writes, “Epignosis and gnosis differ. Epignosis is the complete comprehension after the first knowledge (gnosin) of a matter. It is bringing me better acquainted with a thing I knew before; a more exact viewing of an object that I saw before afar off. That little portion of knowledge which we had here shall be much improved, our eye shall be raised to see the things more strongly and clearly” (Synonyms of the New Testament, page 300).

He goes on to say on the same page, “All Paul’s uses of epignosis justify and bear out this distinction. This same intensive use of epignosis is confirmed by similar passages in the New Testament and in the Septuagint. It also was recognized by the Greek fathers. Thus Chrysostom stated: ‘You knew (egnote), but it is necessary to know thoroughly (epignonai).”

J.B. Lightfoot commenting on epignosis, notes, “The compound epignosis is an advance upon gnosis, denoting a larger and more thorough knowledge...Hence also epignosis is used especially of the knowledge of God and of Christ, as being the perfection of knowledge” (St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians and Philemon, page 138).

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, “epignosis, akin to A, No. 3, denotes "exact or full knowledge, discernment, recognition,"

The New Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon (page 237):
1. Precise and correct knowledge
2. Knowledge of things ethical and divine
3. Of God, especially knowledge of His holy will and of the blessings which He has bestowed and constantly bestows on men through Christ
4. Of Christ, i.e., the true knowledge of Christ’s nature, dignity, benefits
5. Of God and Christ, i.e., to keep the knowledge of the one true God which has illumined the soul

Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, volume 2, page 25:
1. Knowledge as recognition of the will of God that is effective in the conduct of the one who knows God
2. Christian faith

 

[APAK]

@Berean if you are actually a strict adherer in the meaning of scripture, I'm surprised you don't view the context of what you pose in scripture.

Well to the next verse on your list…2 Corinthians 6:1

This verse pertains to spiritual immaturity and laziness of believers.

To remind many Corinthians that are saved to continue to work as servants of God and spread the gospel in the spirit of Christ. Many needed reminded that they were saved by the grace of God and not by themselves and just for their own benefit.

(2Co 6:1) And working together with him we entreat you not to receive the grace of God in vain.

Now this verse is the continuation of thought and context of the entire previous Chapter 5, at least. One must read it all before understanding and reading 2 Corinth 6:1.

This verse has nothing to do with losing salvation. It is all about being saved by the grace of God and then misusing or not growing in the spirit because of the things said in Chapter 5 at least. This is what is meant by receiving the grace of God in vain – for the wrong reason(s). This grace saved us but we can abuse this new life by not extending it to others because we are not working in spirit with Christ, in cooperation, in sanctification and personal spiritual growth. This is the point! We must speak of the gospel in the spirit of Christ, as to be blameless as we endure under hardships – read verse 2 and on…

(2Co 6:2) For He said: In a time of acceptance I hearkened to you, and in a day of salvation did I succour you. Behold, now is the time of acceptance; behold, now is the day of salvation.
(2Co 6:3) We aim to give no reason for stumbling in anything, that our ministry is not blamed.
(2Co 6:4) But in everything, commending ourselves as servants of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
(2Co 6:5) in stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings.
(2Co 6:6) In pureness, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in sincere love,
(2Co 6:7) in the word of truth, in the power of God; by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

………………..etc


Paul is again echoing his determination of a reward and prize to win as a race at the judgement seat of Christ in the future. He wants the Corinthians to become as he, in heart and mind...not to have received God's grace for salvation for the wrong reasons. Paul wanted them to rediscover why God gave this grace to mankind for salvation in the first place.


Bless you,


APAK