Christ vs the anti-Christ: Who is winning?

[Jane_Doe22]

Never again. The Bible tells believers to stay away from darkness. Kicking the dirt off my shoes.

When want to talk about Christ *with* me, I'll be happy to talk about Him.
Good night.

 

[CoreIssue]

Here's the problem with CoreIsseus and your question: you really are asking "do you believe all this suttff my anti-cult teacher told me Mormons do?" And that answer is no, because your anti-cult teacher gave you junk information and does NOT match what I believe at all. What I believe is focused on Christ.

The problem is you have lots of and you refused to deal with challenges. You just Dodge.

Here's one of those lies I posted, your churches own official website with the book of Mormon, D&C and other old official documents.

Scriptures | LDS.org

 

[CoreIssue]

When you love truth and want to talk about Christ, I'll be happy to talk about those.
Good night.

You have worn this attack out.

Diversion.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The problem is you have lots of and you refused to deal with challenges. You just Dodge.

Here's one of those lies I posted, your churches own official website with the book of Mormon, D&C and other old official documents.

Scriptures | LDS.org

Oh yes, you've used this stance before: persecuting folks for not being sola Biblia, when you yourself are not sola Biblia. No Christian is. Heck, even the Biblical cannon is not defined sola Biblia.
It's very old.

You have worn this attack out.

Diversion.

A Christian complaining talking about Christ is a diversion?
Dude, I LOVE talking about Christ. Any day, any time. It's never out of my way or inconvenient.

 

[CoreIssue]

Oh yes, you've used this stance before: persecuting folks for not being sola Biblia, when you yourself are not sola Biblia. No Christian is. Heck, even the Biblical cannon is not defined sola Biblia.
It's very old.

Mormonism is not Christian.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormonism is not Christian.

And if your requirement is to be sola Biblia, neither are you or anyone else.

 

[CoreIssue]

And if your requirement is to be sola Biblia, neither are you or anyone else.

There you go again. Simple fact is Mormonism is not Christian.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

There you go again. Simple fact is Mormonism is not Christian.

*yawn*
CoreIssue, you're not a sola Biblia person. No Christian is: the Bible cannon isn't defined sola Biblia. If you insist on that being sola Biblia is somehow tied into being a Christian, then you and every other Christian are excluded from said definition.
This discussion is very silly.

 

[CoreIssue]

*yawn*
CoreIssue, you're not a sola Biblia person. No Christian is: the Bible cannon isn't defined sola Biblia. If you insist on that being sola Biblia is somehow tied into being a Christian, then you and every other Christian are excluded from said definition.
This discussion is very silly.

How about a reality check.

The book of Mormon is not Christian.

Christ being the literal son of God by sex in heaven is not Christian.

Satan being the literal son of God by sex heaven is not Christian.

God the father being born to another God on another planet is not Christian.

Working one's way up the Godhood is not Christian.

Leaving in three heavens and no hell is not Christian.

Believing in mothers who are wives of God is not Christian.

And so much more.

Do not say is a lie. Proofs for all of have been posted.

You will not even admit Mormons believe the book of Mormon is equal to the Bible in being Scripture.

Scriptures | LDS.org

 

[Jane_Doe22]

*sigh*

The book of Mormon is not Christian.

So you claim.

Christ being the literal son of God by sex in heaven is not Christian.

Satan being the literal son of God by sex heaven is not Christian.

God the father being born to another God on another planet is not Christian.

Working one's way up the Godhood is not Christian.
Believing in mothers who are wives of God is not Christian.

And once again you don't care that all of these claims you're making are bunk.

Do not say is a lie. Proofs for all of have been posted.

^That is funny.

You will not even admit Mormons believe the book of Mormon is equal to the Bible in being Scripture.

Scriptures | LDS.org

Actually I have specifically talked about that very point in length with you.
Now, are you ready to talk about how you are not a sola Biblia person?

 

[CoreIssue]

*sigh*

So you claim.

And once again you don't care that all of these claims you're making are bunk.

^That is funny.

Actually I have specifically talked about that very point in length with you.
Now, are you ready to talk about how you are not a sola Biblia person?

And you still disregard all the proofs that say your claims are lies.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

And you still disregard all the proofs that say your claims are lies.

*yawn*
The words of Walter Martin are not proof of anything. If you don't trust me, feel free to walk your butt into a church and see for yourself.

 

[CoreIssue]

Trying to distract. As you can clearly see I posted a link to official Mormon documents

I and others have posted material from Mormons.

But somehow you think is so persuasive people are going to put blinders on and not see the truth.

Citing Walter Martin is a sad sad effort.

You never post any official Mormon material to support you because you can't.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Trying to distract. As you can clearly see I posted a link to official Mormon documents

I and others have posted material from Mormons.

But somehow you think is so persuasive people are going to put blinders on and not see the truth.

Citing Walter Martin is a sad sad effort.

You never post any official Mormon material to support you because you can't.

This is growing tiresome.
I wasn't the one that cited Walter Martin as a reference, and he is the origin of these false claims. Not any LDS Christian doctrinal source. For some reason the "anti cult" cottage industry frequently can't be bothered to argue against actual beliefs or talk about Christ.
But again, you don't have to take my word for it: feel free to walk into a church and see for yourself.

Until then.

 

[brakelite]

Hard to pick just one!

Indeed. It was a toss up. I opted for the one that would elicit the least objections from protestants... Trying to avoid needless debates on other subjects. Protestants in general have not yet shed all the Catholic baggage. For example, one core doctrine of Catholicism, the one they boast as being the foundation for all other doctrine, is the Trinity. If everything else that is error is builtn the Trinity, how truthful can the Trinity be when we consider what Jesus said regarding corrupt fruit from good trees?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Indeed. It was a toss up. I opted for the one that would elicit the least objections from protestants... Trying to avoid needless debates on other subjects. Protestants in general have not yet shed all the Catholic baggage. For example, one core doctrine of Catholicism, the one they boast as being the foundation for all other doctrine, is the Trinity. If everything else that is error is builtn the Trinity, how truthful can the Trinity be when we consider what Jesus said regarding corrupt fruit from good trees?

I do think it's important to acknowledge the good that is in people of each denomination, even when there are disagreements on pretty important doctrinal points. Obviously I'm not Catholic or Protestant, but I will readily acknowledge that I have met many Catholics and Protestants whom are fully devoted servants of God and there are admirable beliefs in each group. And yes, every single group also has sinners and problems.

 

[brakelite]

you yourself are not sola Biblia. No Christian is.

If a Christian can defend his beliefs from the Bible without any assistance from commentaries, books about the Bible, or text books, regardless of where ever he initially learned about Jesus, that makes him Sola Biblia.
As for the book of Mormon. When I was a young Christian of 24 yo, the only religion I knew anything about was the Catholicism with which I had been raised. I found no common faith with Catholicism after meeting Christ, so joined another church. I was visiting a friend and noticed a blue book on his coffee table. I picked it up and asked, what is this? He replied"it is the book of Mormon". "What is a Mormon? " I asked. He explained briefly and said two missionaries had dropped it off for him to read. So I opened it up and started to read. I immediately started to feel quite ill. I put it down and went to the bathroom. My tummy came right so I went back to my seat, and the book. Opens it up again, same result. Felt sick. This time worse. Back to the bathroom. Stayed there for a while until I was sure I was okay, returned to lounge, opened book. Same again. I took the hint .I put down the book and everything turned to normal. I haven't picked up a book of Mormon since. I was ignorant of Mormonism and God was telling me in no uncertain terms... Leave it alone.
My wife spent some time with her cousins attending the Mormon church. 20 years later I was more able to discern truth from error and conversed with this cousin at length regarding his faith. Though he mentioned Jesus several times, and extolled the virtues of family and relationships etc. , Underneath however, despite the fact that he by this time was an elder, the was a complete lack of experiential understanding of what salvation truly meant. He had a certain amount of head knowledge, but was wholly dependant on his knowledge of Mormon history, tradition, and doctrine, and had no faith in the actual work, the death, and resurrection of Christ, and what the atonement meant for him personally.
The same I could say for his wife who I spoke to a few years later after their divorce. They identified as Mormons and they were excellent Mormons. But despite their profession to the contrary, they did not know Christ. They did not know what it meant to be forgiven of sin. They did not know what it meant to be confident that God promises of eternal life were true. They did not know that the price of their redemption had been paid in full and that the ceremonies and various rites that they went through in order to attain whatever they were aiming for, were fruitless wastes of time and effort.
I also have done some research into the teachings and history of Mormonism. I owned a very large detailed volume written by a couple who were raised in the church, then left and wrote about their experiences, and the true teachings of Smith, Young, etc, . That book became the basis for a series of tracts written by a friend of mine that exposed the errors and false teachings that pervade the LDS. Also the blindness of so many in that church to its own shortcomings.
Just saying.

 

[mjrhealth]

If a Christian can defend his beliefs from the Bible without any assistance from commentaries, books about the Bible, or text books, regardless of where ever he initially learned about Jesus, that makes him Sola Biblia.
As for the book of Mormon. When I was a young Christian of 24 yo, the only religion I knew anything about was the Catholicism with which I had been raised. I found no common faith with Catholicism after meeting Christ, so joined another church. I was visiting a friend and noticed a blue book on his coffee table. I picked it up and asked, what is this? He replied"it is the book of Mormon". "What is a Mormon? " I asked. He explained briefly and said two missionaries had dropped it off for him to read. So I opened it up and started to read. I immediately started to feel quite ill. I put it down and went to the bathroom. My tummy came right so I went back to my seat, and the book. Opens it up again, same result. Felt sick. This time worse. Back to the bathroom. Stayed there for a while until I was sure I was okay, returned to lounge, opened book. Same again. I took the hint .I put down the book and everything turned to normal. I haven't picked up a book of Mormon since. I was ignorant of Mormonism and God was telling me in no uncertain terms... Leave it alone.
My wife spent some time with her cousins attending the Mormon church. 20 years later I was more able to discern truth from error and conversed with this cousin at length regarding his faith. Though he mentioned Jesus several times, and extolled the virtues of family and relationships etc. , Underneath however, despite the fact that he by this time was an elder, the was a complete lack of experiential understanding of what salvation truly meant. He had a certain amount of head knowledge, but was wholly dependant on his knowledge of Mormon history, tradition, and doctrine, and had no faith in the actual work, the death, and resurrection of Christ, and what the atonement meant for him personally.
The same I could say for his wife who I spoke to a few years later after their divorce. They identified as Mormons and they were excellent Mormons. But despite their profession to the contrary, they did not know Christ. They did not know what it meant to be forgiven of sin. They did not know what it meant to be confident that God promises of eternal life were true. They did not know that the price of their redemption had been paid in full and that the ceremonies and various rites that they went through in order to attain whatever they were aiming for, were fruitless wastes of time and effort.
I also have done some research into the teachings and history of Mormonism. I owned a very large detailed volume written by a couple who were raised in the church, then left and wrote about their experiences, and the true teachings of Smith, Young, etc, . That book became the basis for a series of tracts written by a friend of mine that exposed the errors and false teachings that pervade the LDS. Also the blindness of so many in that church to its own shortcomings.
Just saying.

Well when you put it down to it, you will find false teachings in every church, because as I said before, none of them are from God,, I to was born and raised a catholic, till the Holy Spirit got me out of there, got saved before I had even finished my first Christian church service, same day, got my first bible from my dad when he went home from that holiday. Havnt being to church in probably 10 years, and you ll never find me in one, unless Jesus sends me there,

 

[CoreIssue]

This is growing tiresome.
I wasn't the one that cited Walter Martin as a reference, and he is the origin of these false claims. Not any LDS Christian doctrinal source. For some reason the "anti cult" cottage industry frequently can't be bothered to argue against actual beliefs or talk about Christ.
But again, you don't have to take my word for it: feel free to walk into a church and see for yourself.

Until then.

Scriptures | LDS.org
CULT

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If a Christian can defend his beliefs from the Bible without any assistance from commentaries, books about the Bible, or text books, regardless of where ever he initially learned about Jesus, that makes him Sola Biblia.

I'm going to respectfully disagree based on the following points:
1) The Bible he's holding in the first place is not defined sola Biblia, but rather by tradition.
2) Assuming he's a decent scholar, his studies including the historical and cultural context for which things were written.
3) Assuming he's a decent Christian, his studies also include prayer and listening to the Holy Ghost.
4) He's also being influenced by other scholars and their perspectives, even if he's not citing them.
5) He's bring his own outside perspective into things.
6) Whenever there is a is a conflict of interoperation, it is resolved via one of the above.
It's not a bad thing to include these! It would be downright irresponsible not too!

As for the book of Mormon. When I was a young Christian of 24 yo, the only religion I knew anything about was the Catholicism with which I had been raised. I found no common faith with Catholicism after meeting Christ, so joined another church. I was visiting a friend and noticed a blue book on his coffee table. I picked it up and asked, what is this? He replied"it is the book of Mormon". "What is a Mormon? " I asked. He explained briefly and said two missionaries had dropped it off for him to read. So I opened it up and started to read. I immediately started to feel quite ill. I put it down and went to the bathroom. My tummy came right so I went back to my seat, and the book. Opens it up again, same result. Felt sick. This time worse. Back to the bathroom. Stayed there for a while until I was sure I was okay, returned to lounge, opened book. Same again. I took the hint .I put down the book and everything turned to normal. I haven't picked up a book of Mormon since. I was ignorant of Mormonism and God was telling me in no uncertain terms... Leave it alone.
My wife spent some time with her cousins attending the Mormon church. 20 years later I was more able to discern truth from error and conversed with this cousin at length regarding his faith. Though he mentioned Jesus several times, and extolled the virtues of family and relationships etc. , Underneath however, despite the fact that he by this time was an elder, the was a complete lack of experiential understanding of what salvation truly meant. He had a certain amount of head knowledge, but was wholly dependant on his knowledge of Mormon history, tradition, and doctrine, and had no faith in the actual work, the death, and resurrection of Christ, and what the atonement meant for him personally.
The same I could say for his wife who I spoke to a few years later after their divorce. They identified as Mormons and they were excellent Mormons. But despite their profession to the contrary, they did not know Christ. They did not know what it meant to be forgiven of sin. They did not know what it meant to be confident that God promises of eternal life were true. They did not know that the price of their redemption had been paid in full and that the ceremonies and various rites that they went through in order to attain whatever they were aiming for, were fruitless wastes of time and effort.

Thank you for sharing your story. I completely respected your SDA walk before this story, and now still do with a better understanding of it.

I also have done some research into the teachings and history of Mormonism. I owned a very large detailed volume written by a couple who were raised in the church, then left and wrote about their experiences, and the true teachings of Smith, Young, etc, . That book became the basis for a series of tracts written by a friend of mine that exposed the errors and false teachings that pervade the LDS. Also the blindness of so many in that church to its own shortcomings.
Just saying.

I'm a big nerd when it comes to different faiths, and obsessed with truth. I've studied dozens of different groups. And I found that there are a types of people who should avoided because they just give inaccurate information for whichever group they are involved with:
1) Ex-member axe-grinders
2) Somebody getting paid
3) Somebody who comes with "let me tell you what Bobby really believes because I know better than Bobby. I will show Bobby why he's wrong"
( if you want I could give examples of common misunderstanding spawned by these three approaches for any group)

A far better approach of learning is to walk into a church and listen. Read materials yourself. And have extensive conversations with believers, listening and striving to understand them better. For example, I've spent literally 100's of hours discussing SDA beliefs with SDA believers. I watch sermons by SDA leaders explaining their beliefs for SDA audiences and for general audiences. I read up SDA writings myself, and take the time to understand what is considered very authoritative and what's not. And then I talk more with believers to make sure I'm understanding their beliefs the best.