The Issue of Calvinism.

[bbyrd009]

the reasons behind "evangelism" are more likely our scribes that xlate "proclaiming" into "preaching," AEOU into YHWH and LORD, and other English heresies, "missions" (gag) etc

 

[bbyrd009]

Certainly. John says "Not for our sins only." John was speaking to a specific group of Christian believers. "But also for the sins of the whole world." John is explaining that salvation will go forth unto every nation, just as Christ did.

Again, we have to remember that in his letters, they are addressed to Christians, not non believers. John is speaking to this church, and telling them that the salvation which they had received is going to and seek out and save every one of God's chosen from every corner of the earth.

unfort we get a def of "saved" that I srsly doubt they held, more like a "prescription" I guess

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Please demonstrate that meaning from the context of 1 John 2.

Oz

Upgrade your hermeneutical principles and ask "How is this phrase used throughout Scripture?" Contextually
throughout Scripture it does not mean every single person that had ever lived. We can determine the same for the word "all" as it rarely if ever means every single person ever when speaking in soteriological contexts.

From a historical and cultural interpretation it, "the whole world" means all other nations, tongues, tribes &c other than just the Jews.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

AD,

I would add that I can't support,

1. Unconditional election because believers are 'elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father' (1 Pet 1:2).

2. Limited atonement is refuted by several Scriptures:

Passages Supporting Universal Atonement

Universal (or unlimited) atonement is supported throughout the New Testament. John 3:16–17 says that “God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son. . . . God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” The Greek word kosmos, translated “the world,” covers the inhabitants of the entire earth. Other verses supporting unlimited atonement include John 1:29, where Jesus is said to take away “the sin of the world”; Romans 11:32, in which God has mercy on “all” the disobedient; and 1 John 2:2, which says Jesus is “the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”

None of these verses contain any kind of limitation, stated or implied, on Christ’s sacrifice. As if saying that Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world was not sufficient, the apostle John specifically included the Greek word holou, which means “whole, entire, all, complete.” Unless limited atonement is presumed, there is no solid basis for limiting the extent of the atonement mentioned in 1 John 2:2 (Got Questions, What are the main arguments against limited atonement?)
​

3. Irresistible grace.

God is not willing that any perish but all be saved: Tit 2:11; 1 Ti 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9.

What's the point of evangelism if believers are unconditionally elected because of limited atonement and irresistible grace? If irresistible grace is biblical, no preacher can preach to a group of unsaved people to repent, seek forgiveness and have faith in Jesus alone. It would be fake preaching to call ALL to repent when ALL cannot come, according to Calvinism.

Oz

Oz,
When you go to websites that oppose the doctrines of grace ,keep in mind that those persons do not understand the teaching either.
If you need me to, I will shred the got questions responses when I get on my computer.
The five errors I listed are all in view.....starting with an unbiblical view of foreknowledge.
It is followed by ignoring the everyone believing in Jn 3:16.

Followed by the mangled 2 pet3:9...not one who Peter is speaking of will be lost....
Topped off with adding "the sins of" to 1jn2...notice those words are in italics as they are not in the text...

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I'd like to see an example. So far all you've given is an opinion and unsubstantiated assertion.

So, for example?

What happens is they do not understand what Dr. White has taught, so they say...I read it but,
I will give him credit if he bought and read the book. Most who do this will eventually see it. Many are unwilling to examine it.
I will be patient with one who is searching a bit, more than the drive by attack, clown posse, who as soon as they are asked a question....go into the cb witness protection program.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

What happens is they do not understand what Dr. White has taught, so they say...I read it but,
I will give him credit if he bought and read the book. Most who do this will eventually see it. Many are unwilling to examine it.
I will be patient with one who is searching a bit, more than the drive by attack, clown posse, who as soon as they are asked a question....go into the cb witness protection program.

Yes, I appreciate he wants texts and evidence. That said he's able to appreciate reciprocation for the same, or should.

After being years under Geisler like teachings, I saw zero contextual textual support for that system after coming to the Doctrines of Grace. Whites book exposed these teachings by simply employing exegetically interpreted Scripture.

 

[CoreIssue]

I think he's talking about the doctrine of Calvinism, that it lends to this kind of "humble" thinking.

Unconditional Election means that we are chosen for no apparent reason.

If you understand that the Bible teaches that Christian believers are morally superior to unbelievers (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:17), you come up with that very concept...

That as one of the elect, I am a superior person for no apparent reason.

Per Calvinism it is neither superiority or inferiority. It just is.

For non-Calvinists salvation is not superiority, it is being blessed by God's gift by freewill repentance.

 

[Dave L]

Per Calvinism it is neither superiority or inferiority. It just is.

For non-Calvinists salvation is not superiority, it is being blessed by God's gift by freewill repentance.

= self-righteousness = robbing God of his glory in saving sinners who cannot save themselves.

 

[CoreIssue]

= self-righteousness = robbing God of his glory in saving sinners who cannot save themselves.

Calvinists propaganda.

 

[Enoch111]

= self-righteousness = robbing God of his glory in saving sinners who cannot save themselves.

More baloney from Dave L who does not even understand the meaning of self-righteousness.

 

[CoreIssue]

More baloney from Dave L who does not even understand the meaning of self-righteousness.

Self-righteous never do. They see it as the superior teaching the inferior.

 

[Dave L]

More baloney from Dave L who does not even understand the meaning of self-righteousness.

If you had the final say in your salvation, your goodness pulled you through at the expense of God's glory.

 

[Dave L]

Calvinists propaganda.

If you had the final say in your salvation, your goodness pulled you through at the expense of God's glory.

 

[Enoch111]

If you had the final say in your salvation, your goodness pulled you through at the expense of God's glory.

You too had to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ according to your own testimony. So that means you were self-righteous also, and every Calvinist was self-righteous.

 

[Dave L]

You too had to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ according to your own testimony. So that means you were self-righteous also, and every Calvinist was self-righteous.

No, because my faith and repentance followed the New Birth by nature. You say it precedes the New Birth as a work of the self-righteous flesh.

 

[CoreIssue]

No, because my faith and repentance followed the New Birth by nature. You say it precedes the New Birth as a work of the self-righteous flesh.

There you go again misquoting other people.

 

[Dave L]

There you go again misquoting other people.

You believe an act of your fleshly will saved you.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

No, because my faith and repentance followed the New Birth by nature. You say it precedes the New Birth as a work of the self-righteous flesh.

Exactly! They will not address this with integrity though, time rather for them to bury their heads instead...

 

[Preacher4Truth]

@CoreIssue...Just out of curiosity, answer this:

Where did you come up with your false gospel that God saved you BECAUSE he looked down through time, saw how wonderful you were to choose him (being unable to do so according to His Son) all while dead in sin since it is nowhere in Scripture?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You believe an act of your fleshly will saved you.

Yes, he certainly does believe this.