Calvinism is a Cult

[Jun2u]

I interpreted it for you--look back through my posts. I don't buy your interpretation.

You don’t have to “buy” into my interpretation. It is obvious you DON’T believe Psalms 58:3 is God’s words and assessment of babies. Therefore IS trustworthy and most of all must be obeyed.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

I have never once been "over my head" in any discussion with a Calvinist--ever.

Until now!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You don’t have to “buy” into my interpretation. It is obvious you DON’T believe Psalms 58:3 is God’s words and assessment of babies. Therefore IS trustworthy and most of all must be obeyed.

To God Be The Glory

What "obedience" is demanded, my guru--your wish is my command.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Until now!

LOL--what's your hat size?

p.s. You are officially "ignored". Bye.

 

[Jun2u]

Hey CoreIssue, I wonder if it makes the Calvinists uncomfortable that "Atheist Vince" agrees with them on a number of issues? LOL

That’s a plus for us more than you can ever muster for your side.

Mark 9:38 reads:

38) “And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followed not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.”
39) “But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.”
40) “For he that is not against us is on our part.”

To God Be The Glory

 

[Preacher4Truth]

That’s a plus for us more than you can ever muster for your side.

Mark 9:38 reads:

38) “And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followed not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.”
39) “But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.”
40) “For he that is not against us is on our part.”

To God Be The Glory

Oh no, looks like ltc put you on ignore too!

 

[Jun2u]

What "obedience" is demanded, my guru--your wish is my command.

That the whole Bible is God's inspired word, trustworthy, and therefore, must be obeyed.

You can choose to ignore me but it doesn't mean I can't correct your doctrines when found to be flawed.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Until now!

She's been refuted in this thread since she first responded. Then she just ignores those who do.

And then she...:

 

[Jun2u]

Oh no, looks like ltc put you on ignore too!

More power to us!!!
Less insubordinate person

 

[Enoch111]

You don’t have to “buy” into my interpretation. It is obvious you DON’T believe Psalms 58:3 is God’s words and assessment of babies.

Let's look at Psalm 58:3 carefully before we jump to any conclusions:
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

1. This verse is specifically about "the wicked", NOT all human beings (who are simply lost sinners).

2. God has perfect foreknowledge of the wicked at the time that they are born. He knows that they will not ever repent and be converted. Hence they will remain estranged from God from the womb.

3. God also knows that they will begin to go astray and do wickedness from a very early age, and there will be no redemption for them.

4. This entire Psalm is about the wicked. The Psalmist even desires God's judgment to come upon these wicked persons -- Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.

Now, no one can take this Psalm and apply it right across the board. There are some (many) who were wicked and repented of their wickedness. Let's take the case of Jonah and Nineveh:

THEIR WICKEDNESS DECLARED
Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me. (Jonah 1:2)

THEIR WICKEDNESS REPENTED OF
But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. (Jonah 3:8-10)

Now the question arises: "Can babies and young children understand the Gospel and know what it means to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?" And the answer is obvious.

Therefore God -- who desires the salvation of all mankind -- has made full provision for the salvation of those who cannot respond to, or obey, the Gospel. And that is through the shed blood of Christ and His sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. And God even makes this clear in the book of Jonah: And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? (Jonah 4:11). How much is sixscore thousand ? 1 score = 20 x 6 = 120 x 1000 = 120,000.

This is a reference to babies and very young children, who did not understand the difference between "left" and "right". They did not put on sackcloth, and had no clue about repentance, but GOD SAVED THEM BY HIS GRACE.

 

[CoreIssue]

That’s a plus for us more than you can ever muster for your side.

Mark 9:38 reads:

38) “And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followed not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.”
39) “But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.”
40) “For he that is not against us is on our part.”

To God Be The Glory

So you are claiming to cast out demons.

 

[Ezra]

People call Calvinism a cult because they hate God if what the Calvinists say is true. And this also shows an ignorance of Church history where the Council of Ephesus (431) determined Augustinianism (Calvinism's forerunner) was true to scripture, while condemning free will as heresy. So in essence it a case of the heretics calling the truth heresy.

o never said i agreed with it a cult no ..many Calvinist i have ran across are rude you go to carm forum.. your treated like a outcast. you will be called a false teacher . free will is Bible he gave adam and eve a choice .he gives us a choice

 

[CoreIssue]

Let's look at Psalm 58:3 carefully before we jump to any conclusions:
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

1. This verse is specifically about "the wicked", NOT all human beings (who are simply lost sinners).

2. God has perfect foreknowledge of the wicked at the time that they are born. He knows that they will not ever repent and be converted. Hence they will remain estranged from God from the womb.

3. God also knows that they will begin to go astray and do wickedness from a very early age, and there will be no redemption for them.

4. This entire Psalm is about the wicked. The Psalmist even desires God's judgment to come upon these wicked persons -- Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.

Now, no one can take this Psalm and apply it right across the board. There are some (many) who were wicked and repented of their wickedness. Let's take the case of Jonah and Nineveh:

THEIR WICKEDNESS DECLARED
Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me. (Jonah 1:2)

THEIR WICKEDNESS REPENTED OF
But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. (Jonah 3:8-10)

Now the question arises: "Can babies and young children understand the Gospel and know what it means to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?" And the answer is obvious.

Therefore God -- who desires the salvation of all mankind -- has made full provision for the salvation of those who cannot respond to, or obey, the Gospel. And that is through the shed blood of Christ and His sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. And God even makes this clear in the book of Jonah: And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? (Jonah 4:11). How much is sixscore thousand ? 1 score = 20 x 6 = 120 x 1000 = 120,000.

This is a reference to babies and very young children, who did not understand the difference between "left" and "right". They did not put on sackcloth, and had no clue about repentance, but GOD SAVED THEM BY HIS GRACE.

When challenged I provided verse prove that babies do not go to hell.


No response those who claim babies do.

No surprise because they avoid everything that denies them.

 

[CoreIssue]

Let's look at Psalm 58:3 carefully before we jump to any conclusions:
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

1. This verse is specifically about "the wicked", NOT all human beings (who are simply lost sinners).

2. God has perfect foreknowledge of the wicked at the time that they are born. He knows that they will not ever repent and be converted. Hence they will remain estranged from God from the womb.

3. God also knows that they will begin to go astray and do wickedness from a very early age, and there will be no redemption for them.

4. This entire Psalm is about the wicked. The Psalmist even desires God's judgment to come upon these wicked persons -- Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.

Now, no one can take this Psalm and apply it right across the board. There are some (many) who were wicked and repented of their wickedness. Let's take the case of Jonah and Nineveh:

THEIR WICKEDNESS DECLARED
Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me. (Jonah 1:2)

THEIR WICKEDNESS REPENTED OF
But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. (Jonah 3:8-10)

Now the question arises: "Can babies and young children understand the Gospel and know what it means to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?" And the answer is obvious.

Therefore God -- who desires the salvation of all mankind -- has made full provision for the salvation of those who cannot respond to, or obey, the Gospel. And that is through the shed blood of Christ and His sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. And God even makes this clear in the book of Jonah: And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? (Jonah 4:11). How much is sixscore thousand ? 1 score = 20 x 6 = 120 x 1000 = 120,000.

This is a reference to babies and very young children, who did not understand the difference between "left" and "right". They did not put on sackcloth, and had no clue about repentance, but GOD SAVED THEM BY HIS GRACE.

For clarity of reading since this is an excellent post:

Jonah 4:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”

Calvinism no one turns from sin if they are elect, but the Bible is not agree:
Jonah 3:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
8 But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”

10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.

 

[Vince]

Hey CoreIssue, I wonder if it makes the Calvinists uncomfortable that "Atheist Vince" agrees with them on a number of issues? LOL

My take is that the bible leans toward Calvinism or at least predestination. What muddies the water is there are some verses that seem to be in direct contradiction to Calvinism. This thread is damning evidence that Christians cannot agree on how we are saved and that the bible is not clear on this issue. So why should non believers listen to Christians if they cannot agree on the most important doctrine of their faith?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Here is an article from the Christian Post (under the title, "Why Do Many Christians Think Calvinists Are Arrogant Jerks?" Folks in this thread might be interested: Why Do Many Christians Think Calvinists Are Arrogant Jerks?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

o never said i agreed with it a cult no ..many Calvinist i have ran across are rude you go to carm forum.. your treated like a outcast. you will be called a false teacher . free will is Bible he gave adam and eve a choice .he gives us a choice

No one is saved by choosing. God saves by grace.

Sorry you were treated rudely there, but I have to doubt it was purely from Calvinist's or all on them bro. Secondly there are lots of atheists on there from what I've seen. I avoided chatting there for that reason.

If ones teachings are false, they are false. Many believe the free will gospel, but it is not biblical.

Are you in doniphan mo? I'm in mo myself.

 

[Vince]

Let's look at Psalm 58:3 carefully before we jump to any conclusions:
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

1. This verse is specifically about "the wicked", NOT all human beings (who are simply lost sinners).

2. God has perfect foreknowledge of the wicked at the time that they are born. He knows that they will not ever repent and be converted. Hence they will remain estranged from God from the womb.

3. God also knows that they will begin to go astray and do wickedness from a very early age, and there will be no redemption for them.

4. This entire Psalm is about the wicked. The Psalmist even desires God's judgment to come upon these wicked persons -- Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.

Now, no one can take this Psalm and apply it right across the board. There are some (many) who were wicked and repented of their wickedness. Let's take the case of Jonah and Nineveh:

THEIR WICKEDNESS DECLARED
Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me. (Jonah 1:2)

THEIR WICKEDNESS REPENTED OF
But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. (Jonah 3:8-10)

Now the question arises: "Can babies and young children understand the Gospel and know what it means to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?" And the answer is obvious.

Therefore God -- who desires the salvation of all mankind -- has made full provision for the salvation of those who cannot respond to, or obey, the Gospel. And that is through the shed blood of Christ and His sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. And God even makes this clear in the book of Jonah: And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? (Jonah 4:11). How much is sixscore thousand ? 1 score = 20 x 6 = 120 x 1000 = 120,000.

This is a reference to babies and very young children, who did not understand the difference between "left" and "right". They did not put on sackcloth, and had no clue about repentance, but GOD SAVED THEM BY HIS GRACE.

How then does this square with Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

 

[Stranger]

My take is that the bible leans toward Calvinism or at least predestination. What muddies the water is there are some verses that seem to be in direct contradiction to Calvinism. This thread is damning evidence that Christians cannot agree on how we are saved and that the bible is not clear on this issue. So why should non believers listen to Christians if they cannot agree on the most important doctrine of their faith?

Your take is meaningless. You don't believe Calvinism or any other Biblical doctrine.

So, why are you posting in a Christian section? Didn't get enough attention in the non-christian arena? What you have to say in the Christian area is, as I said, worthless.

As to why should you listen to Christians on the most important doctrine of their faith...you shouldn't. Now, go back to your hole and dwell there.

Stranger

 

[Vince]

Your take is meaningless. You don't believe Calvinism or any other Biblical doctrine.

So, why are you posting in a Christian section? Didn't get enough attention in the non-christian arena? What you have to say in the Christian area is, as I said, worthless.

As to why should you listen to Christians on the most important doctrine of their faith...you shouldn't. Now, go back to your hole and dwell there.

Stranger

You are the kind of Christian that makes it easy for atheists to convince people they don't want any part of Christianity.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” ~ Jesus the Christ