The Fire is Now?

[Waiting on him]

That has nothing to do with fiery judgments on the wicked.

It has everything to do with the martyrdom of the saints. Similar to the baptism with which Christ was baptized on the cross.

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! (Lk 12:50)

You and I were the wicked.

 

[ScottA]

No, the fire is NOT now. This is the age of grace, and the Gospel of grace is to be preached to every creature. The fire is reserved for the future.

That raises a good point, and one of confusion:

Indeed, this is the age of grace, and so it should be preached. But these times follow that former time when fire came down from heaven and many were saved (the house of Israel, who are the dead in Christ), but many also perished.

Now then, during these times of the gentiles, the grace of God has indeed gone out to every nation and tribe and people, and this is their/our hour of decision; meaning that if our decision is Christ, we become/became "a new creation" "born again of the spirit of God"...and yet, only if we refuse Him, are we "reserved" for fire until the end. Such is grace.

 

[Waiting on him]

That raises a good point, and one of confusion:

Indeed, this is the age of grace, and so it should be preached. But these times follow that former time when fire came down from heaven and many were saved (the house of Israel, who are the dead in Christ), but many also perished.

Now then, during these times of the gentiles, the grace of God has indeed gone out to every nation and tribe and people, and this is their/our hour of decision; meaning that if our decision is Christ, we become/became "a new creation" "born again of the spirit of God"...and yet, only if we refuse Him, are we "reserved" for fire until the end. Such is grace.

The works of God endure the fire.

 

[ScottA]

The works of God endure the fire.

Exactly!

 

[Waiting on him]

Exactly!

Yea, He’s free to do whatever he wishes with these carcasses carrying him around

 

[Enoch111]

You and I were the wicked.

Those who have been saved by grace are children of God. What was in the past is forgiven and forgotten by God. He sees "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

This OP is simply a mishmash of unrelated Scriptures. The fiery judgments will come in the future.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That has nothing to do with fiery judgments on the wicked.

It has everything to do with the martyrdom of the saints. Similar to the baptism with which Christ was baptized on the cross.

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! (Lk 12:50)

Psalm 9:17-20
[17] The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. [18] For the needy shall not alway be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall not perish for ever. [19] Arise, O Lord ; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight. [20] Put them in fear, O Lord : that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Selah.

(Acts 2:23-31)

 

[Enoch111]

Psalm 9:17-20
[17] The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. [18] For the needy shall not alway be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall not perish for ever. [19] Arise, O Lord ; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight. [20] Put them in fear, O Lord : that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Selah.

(Acts 2:23-31)

Why are you quoting this? Are you categorizing Christians as the wicked who will be turned into Hell? That's what the Muslims do.

It is a serious matter to misapply and misinterpret Scripture. We are presently in the Age of Grace and God is withholding His judgments. But you are trying to promote the idea that His fiery judgments are not reserved for the future but are in effect right now. Which is false.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why are you quoting this? Are you categorizing Christians as the wicked who will be turned into Hell?

Absolutely not.

It is a serious matter to misapply and misinterpret Scripture. We are presently in the Age of Grace and God is withholding His judgments. But you are trying to promote the idea that His fiery judgments are not reserved for the future but are in effect right now. Which is false.

Romans 8:28-29
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Hebrews 12:6-9
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? [8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. [9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us , and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

2 Thessalonians 2:8
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Hebrews 12:29
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

What is suggested is God has prepared the Children to remain in His presence and live. Not appointed to His wrath. Where any agreement between you and I begins to fall apart is probably at: no God is removing us in the rapture.

 

[bbyrd009]

Why are you quoting this? Are you categorizing Christians as the wicked who will be turned into Hell? That's what the Muslims do.

ah well, after we did I guess...after "Russkies," and after "Japs," and after whoever came before them. Why not just Blame Canada lol

It is a serious matter to misapply and misinterpret Scripture. We are presently in the Age of Grace and God is withholding His judgments. But you are trying to promote the idea that His fiery judgments are not reserved for the future but are in effect right now. Which is false.

insert image of Shadrach, Meshak, and Abed~Nego here

looks to me like you are on fire right now bro

 

[101G]

Luke 12:41 "Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?Luke 12:42 "And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luke 12:43 "Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luke 12:44 "Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luke 12:45 "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luke 12:46 "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luke 12:47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luke 12:48 "But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Luke 12:49 "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?Luke 12:50 "But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
Luke 12:51 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division".

PICJAG

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Luke 12:49 "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?Luke 12:50 "But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
Luke 12:51 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division".

Psalm 29:4-7
[4] The voice of the Lord is powerful; the voice of the Lord is full of majesty. [5] The voice of the Lord breaketh the cedars; yea, the Lord breaketh the cedars of Lebanon. [6] He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn. [7] The voice of the Lord divideth the flames of fire.

 

[101G]

Psalm 29:4-7
[4] The voice of the Lord is powerful; the voice of the Lord is full of majesty. [5] The voice of the Lord breaketh the cedars; yea, the Lord breaketh the cedars of Lebanon. [6] He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn. [7] The voice of the Lord divideth the flames of fire.

Psalms 105:30 "Their land brought forth frogs in abundance, in the chambers of their kings.
Psalms 105:31 "He spake, and there came divers sorts of flies, and lice in all their coasts.
Psalms 105:32 "He gave them hail for rain, and flaming fire in their land.

PICJAG.

 

[Waiting on him]

This is the Hope I have for the currently wicked.

Those who have been saved by grace are children of God. What was in the past is forgiven and forgotten by God. He sees "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

 

[Waiting on him]

Absolutely not.



Romans 8:28-29
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Hebrews 12:6-9
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? [8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. [9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us , and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

2 Thessalonians 2:8
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Hebrews 12:29
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

What is suggested is God has prepared the Children to remain in His presence and live. Not appointed to His wrath. Where any agreement between you and I begins to fall apart is probably at: no God is removing us in the rapture.

Jude 1:23-25 KJV
[23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. [24] Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, [25] To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Tecarta BibleThe word pulling here in the first sentence is the word everyone refers to as (the rapture)

Greek: ἁρπάζω
Transliteration: harpazō
Pronunciation: har-pad'-zo
Definition: From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away up) pluck pull take (by force).
KJV Usage: catch up (4x), take by force (3x), catch away (2x), pluck (2x), catch (1x), pull (1x).

 

[Enoch111]

Absolutely not.

Then you should not be posting a mishmash of verses to create spiritual confusion. You cannot take five totally unrelated passages and string them together as though they are related. But you do it over and over again.

The title of this thread is "The fire is now?" and the answer to that question is "Absolutely NOT" if it pertains to God's wrath. God has reserved His fires for the future. However, at present He is offering His grace to all.

 

[charity]

He baptizes with fire.

'I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
but He that cometh after me is mightier than I,
whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Whose fan is in His hand,
and He will throughly purge His floor,
and gather His wheat into the garner;
but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.'
(Matthew 3:11-12)

Hello @Waiting on him,

There is no article, 'the', here in the Greek, so - 'with Holy Spirit and fire', is intended: ie., 'with Holy Spirit, yes, and burning purifying spirit too'. Not two things but one thing = Judgement!

* The contrast is with John's baptism, which was with water, which mingled together the chaff and the wheat. But the new baptism of Christ would not be like that. It would separate the chaff from the wheat by burning it up, as John the Baptist goes on to describe in verse 12 (above).

* The fire in verse 11 (above) and the fire in verse 12 are not the same. In verse 11 it is a figure for purifying and cleansing; and in verse 12 it is a literal fire that is meant.

* John the Baptist is referring to Christ and His Kingdom, as prophesied in Isaiah 4:3-4:-

'And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion,
and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy,
even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion,
and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof
by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.'
(Isaiah 4:3-4)

* This is the purging of the floor, and the burning up of the chaff, which John speaks of in verse 12 (above). John foretold it, but Christ shall do it in the day referred to in Isaiah 4 (above).

* 'The Spirit' is the Worker, and 'the fire' denotes His operations, searching, consuming, and purifying. The day of the Lord's coming will be like 'a refiner's fire'.(Malachi 3:1-4). See also Matthew 3:12, Malachi 4:1 and 3:19.

* When the future baptism of the members of Christ's body with the Holy Spirit is spoken of there is no mention of, or reference to, fire.

* Christ 'fans' to get rid of the chaff. Satan 'sifts' to get rid of the wheat (Luke 22:31).

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris.

Ref. 'Figures of Speech used in Scripture' by Dr E.W. Bullinger

 

[charity]

Jude 1:23-25 KJV
[23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. [24] Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, [25] To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Tecarta BibleThe word pulling here in the first sentence is the word everyone refers to as (the rapture)

Greek: ἁρπάζω
Transliteration: harpazō
Pronunciation: har-pad'-zo
Definition: From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away up) pluck pull take (by force).
KJV Usage: catch up (4x), take by force (3x), catch away (2x), pluck (2x), catch (1x), pull (1x).

Hello @Waiting on him,

I don't understand: for the word rapture is not used in Scripture, is it? Will you please tell me what word you are referring to, so that I can make the comparison you are referring to.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

Hello @Waiting on him,

I don't understand: for the word rapture is not used in Scripture, is it? Will you please tell me what word you are referring to, so that I can make the comparison you are referring to.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Raptured = 'Caught up...' (1 Thessalonians 4.17).

 

[Waiting on him]

Hello @Waiting on him,

I don't understand: for the word rapture is not used in Scripture, is it? Will you please tell me what word you are referring to, so that I can make the comparison you are referring to.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Pulling?