I honestly, after lots of work, almost completely
give no thought to them at all, but let me reiterate that I totally believe in Scriptural rapture,
Bible Search: rapture, I just don't equate it with
harpazo, mostly bc I have experienced being snatched away, as no doubt you have also.
But might Jesus literally appear in the clouds to bodily remove some "us" from the earth at some point? I certainly don't know ok, but "
every eye will see Him" and "
the kingdom does not come by observation" suggest a diff interp to me
So, if I am to understand you correctly, you are stating that in our walk with Christ, we can experience spiritual rapture....an experience of delight, rather than of physical removal. Is that correct? Because, while I don't disagree that indeed, as we follow Christ we experience joy beyond anything else, I'm not sure that it is entirely honest to suggest that is what the passage is speaking of. To start with, the verses that speak of this 'rapture' compares those of us 'still living' with the dead Christians before us, and how they too will be 'raptured'. Are we to suppose that these dead faithful ones can still experience spiritual rapture? That it can only happen at that moment in time? That we can only experience that spiritual rapture at that moment in time...when 'the trumpet sounds and Christ descends'?
I know you say you have given much thought to this, and I am not attempting to fight, but you are consistently dismissive of the idea of Christ's "return" and our catching up to him. So...I would ask you a few things...
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words. -1 Thessalonians 4:14–18
So...with this passage, there is nothing here that suggests we're talking about spiritual feelings or our spiritual walk. We have categories...those who have fallen alseep in the Lord, and those of us who are left (in the Lord). We have a time period..."until the coming of the Lord", and we have an event..."the Lord will descend from heaven". Then actions and an order are described; the dead 'rise' first, then those Christians who are still alive and left at that period of time, they will also be 'caught up'. What makes us suppose it's a physical rapture and not a spiritual one? Because we're told it will be "in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air"....two actual space and time locations.
Also, when speaking of this 'rapture', most people look to this passage:
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?” -1 Corinthians 15:50–55
We know Paul is speaking of the same event because of the reference to the 'dead being raised', then we too shall be. But this passage gives us a little more information than just who and when. It tells us there is a purpose to this 'twinkling' change, this meeting the Lord in the air event. It is done because flesh and blood...perishable, cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. And when the dead have been 'refurbished' and those of us still alive have been given new, imperishable bodies that 'immortal', then death, that final enemy, will be defeated and no more.
I think one of my big questions to you is this: IF these verses are only speaking of a spiritual state...of embracing our faith to such a degree that all these 'end times' promises become realities now....how is it that death still reigns now? The clear promise in 1 Cor 15 is that Christ will return and put death, the final enemy down. And no matter how 'spiritually attuned' a Christian may be, they are still subject to death, are they not? So, in point of fact, when you see scripture speaking of the rapture being delight, it still cannot deliver you from that. However, I contend that the verses that speak of the Rapture promise exactly that.
Return to Me, and I will return to you
You keep using this reference in regards to all the end times promises, but I cannot see the relevance, I'm sorry. When used in OT verses such as Zech 1:3 and Mal 3:7 it was being used in very much a OT way, where Israel had once again turned away from God. In the Old Covenant, when Israel broke it's promises, God would punish them by breaking off his blessings, as per the agreement. He would then send Prophets to remind them "return to me and I will return to you".
However, as promised, there came a New Covenant. Jesus, Son of God, came, as did the Holy Spirit. As a Christian we always have the Spirit within us and our relationship with God is completely different than the Old Covenant ways were. Christ is our intecessor, the Spirit our constant helper....why would he need to tell us 'return to me and I'll return to you', when part of the Trinity always dwells within us?
No...the promises we read in the NT for God's plans of the end of human history have nothing to do with our personal walk of faith and spiritual growth with God...it has everything to do with his ultimate plan that was there from before time that will lead to more glory for him.