Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,773
2,521
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The term "Jew" is used in the New Testament for Israelites and Israel. The twelve tribes. Go and check it out for yourself. And God knows all those who belong to the 10 tribes. Even though only the province of Judah remained after the Babylonian captivity, the term "Israel" is used for Jews, and "Jews" for Israel.

Of course the title of Jew applies to an Israelite from the southern kingdom, simply because the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi were the 3 tribes that made up the southern "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem after God split old Israel into 2 separate kingdoms.

When that split happened, only the northern ten tribe "kingdom of Israel" was known as 'Israel'. The southern kingdom was known as "Judah" or "house of Judah" in God's Word. The title of Jew was derived from the sole tribe of Judah. That is why Apostle Paul said he was a Jew born of the tribe of Benjamin; it was because all those of the southern kingdom of Judah took the title of Jew, including the foreigners living in the lands of Judea.

After God brought the kings of Assyria upon the northern "kingdom of Israel" (ten tribes), and scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel to Assyria and lands of the Medes, the only Israelites left in the land were the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah". So naturally those became known as 'Israel', because they were the only Israelites left in the land! Simple! That did not mysteriously and suddenly make the ten lost tribes of Israel into Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah."

I thank my Heavenly Father that He kept this history distinct in His Word so that those who actually study His Word for themselves would realize how many Jews today like to lie to the world to get them thinking they are the only children of Israel! The Amos 9 prophecy God gave about the gathering of the ten lost tribes reveals He has not forgotten them and knows who and where they are today, as they are NOT known as Jews. Even the Jews today don't know who and where the ten lost tribes of Israel are!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keraz

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,773
2,521
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There are those who say they are Jews and are not. A Jew is one inwardly, yeah?

Don’t know or have ever read “Darby's Dispensationalism” so cant tell you if I’m confused by it. Maybe handed down by man I am, believed a lot of things handed down by man.

The pre-tribulational rapture idea came from Darby (et al) as he was one of the first to preach it in a Church in 1830's Great Britain. He also was the main creator of Dispensationalist theory, the idea in God's Word of different times for fulfillment of The Gospel. His Dispensationalist theory pushed the un-Biblical idea that Christ's Church is raptured to Heaven prior to the great tribulation. And then during Christ's millennial kingdom, a literal restoration of the kingdom of Israel happens with Jesus and His Church reigning from Heaven. That of course is not in The Bible. Christ gathers His Church at His second coming and begins literal rule on earth over all nations from Jerusalem, and His Church rules with Him on earth.

Paul's metaphorical usage of being a 'Judean inwardly' is actually pointing to the meaning and purpose of the word Israel involving The Gospel of Jesus Christ. The word Jew came about from those of the southern "kingdom of Judah" after Solomon's days. God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms (see 1 Kings 11 forward). It was not used by the ten tribe northern "kingdom of Israel".

The word Israel was given to Jacob because he prevailed with the Angel of The Lord and demanded a blessing. The word means to 'prevail with God's help'. It is the Salvation name involving The Gospel of Jesus Christ. The majority of Israel didn't realize that it forever was to symbolize the New Covenant, which is the Promise God first gave Abraham by Faith. Many of today's Jews still don't realize that. So in Paul's sense, to be an Israelite inwardly... means having believed by Faith on God's Promised Saviour, first preached to Abraham (see end of John 8, and Galatians 3).
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,773
2,521
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Figures identify, metaphors match, prophesy and fulfilment merge, time and truth blend, "THE THOUSAND YEARS THIS THE FIRST RESURRECTION" Acts 20:5, defies physical literalness in any sense.

You must have a different Bible than I do. Here's Acts 20:5...

Acts 20:5
5 These going before tarried for us at Troas.
KJV


That was about Apostle Paul's journeys of that early time. Has nothing to do with the "thousand years" reign by Christ in Revelation 20.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,308
575
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
You must have a different Bible than I do. Here's Acts 20:5...

Acts 20:5
5 These going before tarried for us at Troas.
KJV


That was about Apostle Paul's journeys of that early time. Has nothing to do with the "thousand years" reign by Christ in Revelation 20.

Thanks for attentive reading. Elke outjie maak 'n foutjie. I'm very sorry. Nevertheless you can check this up,
Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn
14 hrs · . 'Error 502' occurred on christianityboard while I tried to fix my typo.

But you could not READ Revelation 20:5 its very WORDS? Davy crooked!
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,773
2,521
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm Amillennial, not preterist. Most of the church has always been Amillennial. Jesus is Amillennial. All physical kingdom theories are false.

Now you're pushing falseness with claiming Jesus was Amillennial. The 1st century Church fathers taught a Premillennial return of Christ Jesus. So your "most of the church has always been" falsehood just got burned.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,308
575
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Oh? Like accepting that Jesus was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel? That is what He said, by the way. It was only when Israel, as a whole, rejected Him as their King, that the Kingdom was postponed and God then put them aside and took a people from the Gentiles for Himself. Not only are you ignorant of Scripture but you are ignorant of what it teaches.

Nobody can do your case better... Mooi man, carry on, I, just like it!
 

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,308
575
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
The very first covenant God made with Abraham was by promise, like Apostle Paul said, Abraham believed God, and God counted to Abraham as righteousness. Thus the INHERITANCE was never... of the law, but was by FAITH. And that involves The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and includes all covenants God made involving the New Covenant.

The old covenant is dead!

The Promise God first gave thru Abraham was by Faith, and is about the Everlasting Covenant, Salvation by Faith on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ. The inheritance and promises were always... intended to be in final for the New Covenant, not the old.

Great post. If I may add my penny... The old covenant is dead : it never had life; it never was a covenant God closed! The old covenant ever has been the very best of man; never anything else.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,773
2,521
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thanks for attentive reading. Elke outjie maak 'n foutjie. I'm very sorry. Nevertheless you can check this up,
Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn
14 hrs · . 'Error 502' occurred on christianityboard while I tried to fix my typo.

But you could not READ Revelation 20:5 its very WORDS? Davy crooked!

Revelation 20:5 you meant, not Acts 20:5 like you posted? OK, no problem. I'll check out Revelation 20:5 in place of what you said.

You said Rev.20:5 "defies physical literalness in any sense."

There's verses before that in context, so let's not throw those away. Pulling out a single verse and trying to say something outside the Scripture context where it is found is not how to treat God's Holy Writ.

Rev 20:1-6
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,


No doubt about who this is, it's Satan himself, bound for a thousand years. Doesn't tell us what timeline to put that "thousand years" in just yet. We have to keep reading here.


3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

OK, we know Satan is still today deceiving the nations. So... this cannot be about our present world, for Peter showed that Satan like a roaring lion is still walking about seeking whom he may devour (1 Pet.5:8). There is no previous evidence in God's Word about Satan having been bound yet. Can't use John 12:31 as being this, because it doesn't tell us what Satan is cast out of there, and John 14:30 Jesus warns us that the prince of this world "cometh", suggesting that Satan is coming to our world. Lo and behold, this is what Revelation 12:7-9 reveals, that after the war in Heaven Satan with his angels are cast out of Heaven down to the earth, and those on earth are given a Woe, and the power of Christ then comes in Heaven, because the accuser is cast out. That is pointing to the future tribulation time when Satan is cast out of the heavenly dimension, and instead into our dimension. So this event of Satan being locked up in the bottomless pit must be after this present world we are in, for the great tribulation is to happen at the end of this world, since the last sign Jesus gave for the end of this world is His second coming.


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The 5th Seal of Revelation 6 is specifically about souls beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God. That covers both OT saints, and NT saints who are killed for giving a Testimony for Jesus during the future great tribulation timing. This beast and image hasn't happened yet, for it is related to the false one of Rev.13 that is to appear in Jerusalem working great signs and wonders, raining fire down on earth from heaven in the sight of men. No generation has seen that yet. And one certainly cannot say that 'beast' was our Lord Jesus, just because He did work many miracles at His 1st coming. No, these are about those persecuted for Christ especially during the coming great tribulation. But in this timeline here, the tribulation is over, and these are receiving their rewards. We know Jesus doesn't hand out the rewards until after... His second coming, so that puts this in the ballpark after... His second coming.

We also know per Rev.2 that those in His Church that overcome shall rule over the nations with a rod of iron with Jesus. That certainly has never... happened in this world to this day. So that's another huge pointer that this is for after Christ's second coming.


5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


Here's the verse you referenced to me, with a claim that this disproves Rev.20 as being meant literally.

Actually, this 5th verse is very... literal! We are supposed to understand from previous Scripture (like about the "day of the Lord" events of God's consuming fire burning man's works off the earth, the change at the twinkling of an eye Apostle Paul taught, and the manifesting of the spiritual body or resurrection body at Christ's coming), and not forget those things when reading this. Also, Jesus showed us about the unsaved walking around in flesh bodies today, how inside they are full of dead men's bones, simply because they reject Him and thus Eternal Life.

Since on the day of Christ's return, all flesh is as grass and is burned up, the covering cast over all nations being removed, with death being swallowed up in victory (Isa.25), the ONLY type of death remaining at this point will be the "second death", which is the casting of one's spirit body with soul into the future "lake of fire" at the end of this "thousand years". This is very... literal. The second death is the death the unsaved especially need worry about! For those in Christ, we shall never be subject to the "second death".

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV


Our Lord Jesus forewarned to not fear flesh man who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul. But fear God Who can destroy both our 'body' (spirit body after flesh death) with soul into the lake of fire (word 'hell' there is geena from the Hebrew about the perpetual burning garbage pit outside Jerusalem. Our Lord Jesus used it as a symbol for the future "lake of fire" that will destroy the wicked). So is that meant literally??? You bet it is!!! So is that Rev.20:5 Scripture meant literally. Those during the thousand years still with 'dead' souls will not live (in Christ) unless they believe on Jesus. That is how those will still be subject to the "second death" destruction into the "lake of fire", exactly what Jesus was talking about there in Matthew 10:28. Those 'dead' are the "resurrection of damnation", the unsaved, like the "synagogue of Satan" that will be made to bow to Christ in that future time at the feet of His elect per Rev.3:9.


6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV


Again, the "second death" casting into the future "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years will not apply to those in Christ Jesus. The fact that a cardinal number "first" is mentioned with that idea of a resurrection of the saved, that suggests there will be at least one more resurrection of life at the end of the thousand years. It's not pointing to the "resurrection of damnation" of John 5:28-29, because Jesus showed that one will occur on the day of His second coming, along with the "resurrection of life".

Thusly:
1. Jesus second coming - Satan locked in his pit prison; resurrection of both the just and the unjust; the unjust are the 'dead', meaning spiritually dead souls still subject to the "second death". These will not live again UNLESS they believe on Jesus during the thousand years.
2. During the thousand years - Jesus and His elect reign over the unsaved with a rod of iron for a thousand years. The saved not subject to the second death. The unsaved bow to Jesus as Lord and King. The unsaved who erred in spirit will come to understanding, and those who murmured shall learn doctrine (Isa.29). Some of the unsaved will believe on Jesus, their 1st opportunity to hear The Gospel.
3. End of the thousand years - Satan loosed a final time to tempt the nations; Satan destroyed, the unbelieving judged out of the book, the saved names found in the book of life; those not found in the book of life cast into the lake of fire along with hell and death.
 
Last edited:
D

Dave L

Guest
Now you're pushing falseness with claiming Jesus was Amillennial. The 1st century Church fathers taught a Premillennial return of Christ Jesus. So your "most of the church has always been" falsehood just got burned.
Jesus is Amillennial. Nowhere does he preach a physical temporal kingdom. He always teaches a spiritual eternal kingdom.

Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
 

Lady Crosstalk

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,069
1,114
113
49
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Figures identify, metaphors match, prophesy and fulfilment merge, time and truth blend, "THE THOUSAND YEARS THIS THE FIRST RESURRECTION" Revelation 20:5, defies physical literalness in any degree or sense.

Revelation 20:5 says, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection." While I agree that Revelation is highly symbolic, this particular passage is a simple declarative statement and is literal in every way. The Church does not appear after Revelation chapter 3 because it has been removed in the harpazo. The passage you cite is referring specifically to the Tribulation martyrs, which will likely be almost entirely from Israel. This is not speaking about the Church of which, the Apostle Paul said, in 1 Thes. 4:17 "Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever." And again, in 1 Cor 15:51-53, "But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies."
 
Last edited:

Copperhead

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2017
835
304
63
67
iowa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The old covenant is dead!

Yes, if you mean Sinai Covenant! But the Noahic Covenant, the Abrahamic Covenant, the Davidic Covenant, etc are all still very much intact and current.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.

And if you read closely, the New Covenant is one made with all Israel, both houses, all tribes. Not a word about a gentile in the passage.

Believers, made up of both Jew and Gentile, are the body of Messiah. Also called the bride of Messiah. Israel is not the bride of Messiah or the body of Messiah.
 
Last edited:

Copperhead

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2017
835
304
63
67
iowa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When that split happened, only the northern ten tribe "kingdom of Israel" was known as 'Israel'. The southern kingdom was known as "Judah" or "house of Judah" in God's Word.

But if you actually read the scripture, you would find in 2 Chronicles that several times many of the northern tribes migrated south and joined the southern kingdom as the northern kingdom went from bad to worse. One of those events over 100 years after the Assyrian conquest of the northern kingdom.

And if you read Ezra, you would find that the remnant he brought back from the Babylonian exile were called Jews 9 times and Israel 40 times.

And if you read Nehemiah, you would find that the remnant he brought back from the Babylonian exile were called Jews 11 times and Israel 22 times.

The term Jew and Israelite had effectively become synonymous terms, and especially so by the time of the Maccabees.

Paul identified himself as a Benjamite, a Jew, and an Israelite.

I thank my Heavenly Father that He kept this history distinct in His Word so that those who actually study His Word for themselves would realize how many Jews today like to lie to the world to get them thinking they are the only children of Israel!

For your to make the comments you did in that post shows you have little understanding of the word. You may have read it, but not very closely. Go study again instead of making yourself look egotistical by trying to imply you are closer to the Lord than anyone else.
 

Copperhead

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2017
835
304
63
67
iowa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The pre-tribulational rapture idea came from Darby (et al) as he was one of the first to preach it in a Church in 1830's Great Britain. He also was the main creator of Dispensationalist theory, the idea in God's Word of different times for fulfillment of The Gospel.

Yet again, you show your ignorance of history. Many early church writings of the first 4 centuries also exhibit pre-trib removal of the righteous teachings. Especially so the sermons of Ephraim.

Virtually all the translations of the scripture, in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, they translated the passage as "departure", "the departure", Departing, etc instead of falling away. The context is our gathering to the Lord (verse 1) not our falling away or apostasy from the Lord. Even the Latin Vulgate (4th Century), the word used in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is dicessio which means a physical, spatial departure not a doctrinal departure.

As Dr. Andy Woods (Lawyer, Theologian, Greek Scholar) has stated, 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is pre-trib rapture..... game, set, match.
 

Lady Crosstalk

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,069
1,114
113
49
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Great post. If I may add my penny... The old covenant is dead : it never had life; it never was a covenant God closed! The old covenant ever has been the very best of man; never anything else.

Well, it depends on the covenant. There were conditions placed on the Land covenant, for example. The Israelites were to be obedient to the Lord's commands or they would be tossed out of what the Jews still refer to as "the Beautiful Land" (a "land flowing with milk and honey"). This is in accordance with Yahweh's warning to them that if they began to do the evil things which the Canaanites did, they would be "vomited out" just the way that the Canaanites had been. God ordered them to utterly wipe out some of the demonically-infested inhabitants of Canaan, but the Israelites failed to do that and began to emulate their pagan neighbors. The Israelites were then pitched out of the Land. Nevertheless, all of the latter prophets spoke of a day in the future, when the tribe of Judah and the ten lost tribes of Israel would be reunited back in the Land. This would be after Yahweh had taken away their "hearts of stone", turning them into "hearts of flesh", and forgiving their sin (especially the very grave national sin of rejecting His Son--the longed-for Messiah, even though a remnant became His faithful followers). The restoration of a converted Israel back to the Land is the main point of the "dry bones" prophecy from Ezekiel chapter 37. The working out of those promises comprises the rest of the Book of Ezekiel.

The Apostle Paul said that the Abrahamic Covenant was still in effect in Romans chapter 11--specifically in the 29th verse (it is because it was unconditional--God swore by Himself)--->"For God's gifts and His call can never be withdrawn." He chose Abraham out of the spiritual darkness of the pagan nations just as He later chose Moses--one of Abraham's descendants, after the flesh. Moses, from the tribe of Levi, was to be a priest and judge to the nation of Israel which God called out of the physical and spiritual slavery of pagan Egypt. Yahweh had chosen the ancestors Abraham, Isaac (the "child of promise") and Jacob/Israel to be the physical fathers of His nation of Israel, just as He is their spiritual Father. Now, He has chosen a people from among the Gentiles--the Bride of Christ--a spiritual Kingdom. This fulfills God's promise of blessing the Gentiles through Abraham and his descendants (Israel) which is a part of the Abrahamic Covenant (see Genesis 22:18). Christian Gentiles are spiritual descendants of Abraham through Christ. A spiritual Kingdom--we are "citizens of heaven"--not at all a physical Kingdom. Converted physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel are not only Abraham's physical descendants, but are his spiritual descendants as well. There have always been some.
 
D

Dave L

Guest
Yet again, you show your ignorance of history. Many early church writings of the first 4 centuries also exhibit pre-trib removal of the righteous teachings. Especially so the sermons of Ephraim.

Virtually all the translations of the scripture, in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, they translated the passage as "departure", "the departure", Departing, etc instead of falling away. The context is our gathering to the Lord (verse 1) not our falling away or apostasy from the Lord. Even the Latin Vulgate (4th Century), the word used in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is dicessio which means a physical, spatial departure not a doctrinal departure.

As Dr. Andy Woods (Lawyer, Theologian, Greek Scholar) has stated, 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is pre-trib rapture..... game, set, match.
The rapture happens after the resurrection according to Paul. And the resurrection happens on the last day according to Jesus and the gospels.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,308
575
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Of course the title of Jew applies to an Israelite from the southern kingdom, simply because the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi were the 3 tribes that made up the southern "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem after God split old Israel into 2 separate kingdoms.

When that split happened, only the northern ten tribe "kingdom of Israel" was known as 'Israel'. The southern kingdom was known as "Judah" or "house of Judah" in God's Word. The title of Jew was derived from the sole tribe of Judah. That is why Apostle Paul said he was a Jew born of the tribe of Benjamin; it was because all those of the southern kingdom of Judah took the title of Jew, including the foreigners living in the lands of Judea.

After God brought the kings of Assyria upon the northern "kingdom of Israel" (ten tribes), and scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel to Assyria and lands of the Medes, the only Israelites left in the land were the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah". So naturally those became known as 'Israel', because they were the only Israelites left in the land! Simple! That did not mysteriously and suddenly make the ten lost tribes of Israel into Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah."

I thank my Heavenly Father that He kept this history distinct in His Word so that those who actually study His Word for themselves would realize how many Jews today like to lie to the world to get them thinking they are the only children of Israel! The Amos 9 prophecy God gave about the gathering of the ten lost tribes reveals He has not forgotten them and knows who and where they are today, as they are NOT known as Jews. Even the Jews today don't know who and where the ten lost tribes of Israel are!

Good post. God bless you
 

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,308
575
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
That of course is not in The Bible. Christ gathers His Church at His second coming and begins literal rule on earth over all nations from Jerusalem, and His Church rules with Him on earth.

Christ gathers His Church at his Coming in the New Jerusalem which He brought down from heaven physically, His Church of all the saved, those alive and "changed" and glorified in the flesh, and separated from the 'tares' and those raised from the dead and glorified in the flesh, and separated from the 'tares' at His Coming,

and begins His Eternal Rule on the New Earth from the New Jerusalem which He brought down from heaven with Him physically,

whereas before his Second Coming,
Christ ruled "this the Thousand Years THE FIRST RESURRECTION", from "when God Raised Christ from the dead and exalted Him at the Right hand of God and gave Him TO THE CHURCH AS HEAD" and "THEY, ruled WITH Christ : THIS, the Thousand Years THE FIRST RESURRECTION, on thrones-with-Christ", right where they were born in the flesh and where they while there was sin and death, “received part in the First Resurrection" of the spiritual NEW BIRTH.

On the New Earth Christ’s Rule will be physical and eternally; on this old earth, Christ’s Rule is spiritual and temporary.
 
Last edited:

Lady Crosstalk

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2019
2,069
1,114
113
49
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Christ gathers His Church at his Coming in the New Jerusalem which He brought down from heaven physically, His Church of all the saved, those alive and "changed" and glorified in the flesh, and separated from the 'tares' and those raised from the dead and glorified in the flesh, and separated from the 'tares' at His Coming,

and begins His Eternal Rule on the New Earth from the New Jerusalem which He brought down from heaven with Him physically,

whereas before his Second Coming,
Christ ruled "this the Thousand Years THE FIRST RESURRECTION", from "when God Raised Christ from the dead and exalted Him at the Right hand of God and gave Him TO THE CHURCH AS HEAD" and "THEY, ruled WITH Christ : THIS, the Thousand Years THE FIRST RESURRECTION, on thrones-with-Christ", right where they were born in the flesh and where they while there was sin and death, “received part in the First Resurrection" of the spiritual NEW BIRTH.

On the New Earth Christ’s Rule will be physical and eternally; on this old earth, Christ’s Rule is spiritual and temporary.

When was the Antichrist and the False Prophet thrown into the Lake of Fire, in your view? Those taking the Mark of the Beast were where? Who were the Ten Kings? Where was the 200 million-man army of Revelation 9:16? There has never been the capability to field an army of that size until recently. Certainly not 2,000 years ago. No, the events of the Book of Revelation are yet future.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,997
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No, the events of the Book of Revelation are yet future.
It is simply amazing how so many Christians can't see that. If the events of Revelation were ALREADY fulfilled, then we should rightly be in the New Heavens and the New Earth -- WHEREIN DWELLETH RIGHTEOUSNESS. This would correspond to what is revealed in Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks.

...and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (Dan 9:24)
 

Copperhead

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2017
835
304
63
67
iowa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is simply amazing how so many Christians can't see that. If the events of Revelation were ALREADY fulfilled, then we should rightly be in the New Heavens and the New Earth -- WHEREIN DWELLETH RIGHTEOUSNESS. This would correspond to what is revealed in Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks.

...and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (Dan 9:24)

I would say it is simply amazing that many who claim to be Christians take to the Preterist position the way they do.

There is a lot of scripture that talks about the end times and I would say that totally chops the legs out of Preterism.

And if it sealed up the vision and prophecy by 70AD, then Revelation is irrelevant. Matter of fact, John was simply pulling our lariat. it is well documented by early church writers, internal evidence, and extra biblical sources that John wrote Revelation long after 70AD. Most likely 90-95AD. So right there, the Preterist idea falls flat on its face.

You can watch a debate between Hank Hanegraaff and Dr. Mark Hitchcock (Lawyer, Theologian, Pastor) on this very issue. Hanegraaff, the "Bible Answer Man" on radio and a Preterist, it was sad to watch him take the beating he did in that debate. I don't wish ill of any believer, but he really got his clock cleaned by Hitchcock.

You can watch it. It is a 3 hr debate. Guess it will be a challenge here to see who really is interested in both sides of the issue or are content to bury themselves in their own bucket.

 
Last edited: