Does God have Free Will?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
But that doesn't answer the OP.
well I guess not if God is an old white guy with a long beard, no
but the point was don't be buying this "no one can be perfect as He is perfect" thing, bc we are to be gods, Elohim, but I guess we prefer a king, and so Nehushtan worshippers are def going to get ordained and insist you light incense to Nehushtan and tell you that you cannot overcome either, said with charisma and authority too I guess. Doesn't mean it's true.

As to the op I don't know, sorry, imo it depends upon the context
 
Last edited:

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
But any change wold be from perfection to imperfection. = God's will is perfect and not free to change.
Where we are concerned I guess I would agree, although I'm not sure how or why that would matter to us if we cannot hear or grasp God's will anyway; it will often appear as if God is maybe going against His will, as Christ revealed?
 
D

Dave L

Guest
Where we are concerned I guess I would agree, although I'm not sure how or why that would matter to us if we cannot hear or grasp God's will anyway; it will often appear as if God is maybe going against His will, as Christ revealed?
All that we see is perfect and cannot get any better since it stems from God's eternal decree. We see confusion and misery, God saw that all he created was good (according to his purpose).
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,696
5,575
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That is, does God arbitrarily will his nature? Or does his nature determine his will?
The question is in error.

God is ("I am"), "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Yet the question infers a will for the future that is different tomorrow than today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave L

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,800
19,242
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Whatever God decides IS good. There is no good above God and His will. There is no Christian morality.
 

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God's will is "bound" by his nature or who he is. He is not constrained by any external force. If you ponder this in the content of God is love (1 John 4:8). Even in the Calvinist usage you may sometimes see, God would still be understood to be able to operate within a certain set of parameters, otherwise we enter the Cartesian notion of a deceiver god.
Are you a artifact hunter
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,696
5,575
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But any change wold be from perfection to imperfection. = God's will is perfect and not free to change.
I am enjoying the exchange between you and @Episkopos. It is a good thing to contemplate. Thanks!

But here you suggest that freedom is a limitation on our Unlimited God, making "freedom" the wrong term. Choosing perfection exclusively is in itself perfection. However, the mystery of God, is that He alone has the ability to "lower" Himself and remain unscathed in His perfection, adding perfection to perfection, i.e., expanding His tent.

There can be no more or less perfection with God, but He has accomplished to add or make more [of] what is perfect, "just as He is perfect."
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Episkopos

Preacher4Truth

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
2,252
2,861
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The question is in error.

God is ("I am"), "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Yet the question infers a will for the future that is different tomorrow than today.
Nothing in his statement implies any of the above.
 

Preacher4Truth

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
2,252
2,861
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, and that is the error.
Sorry, but as usual your posts don't make sense. Trying to get you to elaborate is futile because it becomes even more senseless.

My point stands, you made a false implication and assertion against his post.
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,696
5,575
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry, but as usual your posts don't make sense. Trying to get you to elaborate is futile because it becomes even more senseless.

My point stands, you made a false implication and assertion against his post.
How so? Please elaborate. That is, if you can stop with your derogatory criticisms.

Otherwise, butt out, go back to school and learn a little more about what you are being critical of. And by the way, my comment was clear and concise.
 

Preacher4Truth

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
2,252
2,861
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How so? Please elaborate. That is, if you can stop with your derogatory criticisms.

Otherwise, butt out, go back to school and learn a little more about what you are being critical of. And by the way, my comment was clear and concise.

So you feel wounded? OK!

Saying your posts are senseless is regarding your posts, not your person. But instead of comprehending this distinction you go on to criticize me personally, which is OK with me, it doesn't bother me, just an observation that you feel hurt or derogated.

Been through this with you before, you never clarify you statements, THEY just become more muddled. Your comment was off base, I replied to it, you felt insulted by my next response which was an observation: your posts are senseless and it is futile to attempt to get you to clarify.

Go read your first post of which I responded to, then read my response and see the clarity of my rebuttal.

Thank you, no need to respond, or, you can get your last word in. Would be nice to see you admit that my statement to your post showed your false assertions. But anyhow, get your last word in.
 

SovereignGrace

Certified Flunky
Feb 15, 2019
1,910
1,612
113
Crum, WVa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That is, does God arbitrarily will his nature? Or does his nature determine his will?

Where the problem stems with the word free is that free doesn't mean that anything and everything goes, is truly free. We are free to drive a vehicle anywhere in the USA, but we have limitations in this freedom. We're not allowed to drive while intoxicated/under the influence of drugs, no driver's license, no insurance, no registration, &c. We have freedom of speech, yet we can't use this freedom to threaten another person with bodily harm. We have the right to bear arms, but we can't own fully automatic weapons, go around shooting up places, &c. So, being free does have its limitations.

God's will is free, yet He can not violate His will and sin. He can not lie, He can not murder, and so on. God is eternal and we are created beings, so to say God has free will and we are made in His likeness, so we have free will, is a misnomer. We can lie, cheat, steal, murder, commit adultery/fornication, God can do none of those.

Its like the person in a 10' x 10' prison cell. They can freely move within the confines of that cell, but they can not go past those steel bars. Its that way with our wills. Our wills move freely within the confines of our nature, but can not go past the nature it is encapsulated in. The only way we can get past the confines of our fallen nature is for God to come and change our nature. Change the nature, change the will.

“Can the Ethiopian change his skin Or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good Who are accustomed to doing evil."[Jeremiah 13:23]
 
D

Dave L

Guest
I am enjoying the exchange between you and @Episkopos. It is a good thing to contemplate. Thanks!

But here you suggest that freedom is a limitation on our Unlimited God, making "freedom" the wrong term. Choosing perfection exclusively is in itself perfection. However, the mystery of God, is that He alone has the ability to "lower" Himself and remain unscathed in His perfection, adding perfection to perfection, i.e., expanding His tent.

There can be no more or less perfection with God, but He has accomplished to add or make more [of] what is perfect, "just as He is perfect."
The problem is, you cannot trust God if his will is not bound by his nature. He could arbitrarily send everyone in heaven to hell, just to prove he can do it. We have faith in God because He is all that his attributes are.
 

Preacher4Truth

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
2,252
2,861
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
However, the mystery of God, is that He alone has the ability to "lower" Himself and remain unscathed in His perfection, adding perfection to perfection, i.e., expanding His tent.

There can be no more or less perfection with God, but He has accomplished to add or make more [of] what is perfect, "just as He is perfect."

You're all over the place and your comment is self-contradictory.

To say that God can add to his perfection "expanding his tent" is a rather cursory remark. This type of thinking leads to errors such as Open Theism.

Note Acts 17:29. Note Psalm 50:21. God is to be thought of on a much much higher plane, he is not like us.

God is perfect. This perfection cannot be added to, as, if it were, then he is not nor was ever perfect. To say he is adding to his perfection is to be as off track as Harry Emerson Fosdick.

It appears that much of your posting has to do with some sort of philosophy, attempts to make a splash, or show some sort of wisdom which is why they are off base and unbiblical. Stick to the Scriptures, 2 Timothy 4:1-4; 2 Timothy 2:15 and its teachings, not your own understanding. Nothing you've stated here is biblical doctrine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SovereignGrace

Preacher4Truth

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
2,252
2,861
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God doesn't have an R&D department. He knows, does, accomplishes all things perfectly well, knowing all things instantly and perfectly. He didn't draw up multitudes of scenarios, scrapping some due to unforeseen issues, or what have you. He is God, perfect in all his ways, and does not learn or grow in perfection, power or knowledge. He is immutable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SovereignGrace

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,696
5,575
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The problem is, you cannot trust God if his will is not bound by his nature. He could arbitrarily send everyone in heaven to hell, just to prove he can do it. We have faith in God because He is all that his attributes are.
That again, assumes change in whom there is no change.

The idea of God having a "nature", is somewhat of a departure also. It suggests that He is less infinite than should be attributed to Him. Created things and people have "nature", because they fall into a "type", "interest" or "influence", all of which are limitations.