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Does God have Free Will?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Dave L, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    It doesn't make sense to assume there is more than one ultimately perfect decree in God.
     
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  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    well I guess not if God is an old white guy with a long beard, no
    but the point was don't be buying this "no one can be perfect as He is perfect" thing, bc we are to be gods, Elohim, but I guess we prefer a king, and so Nehushtan worshippers are def going to get ordained and insist you light incense to Nehushtan and tell you that you cannot overcome either, said with charisma and authority too I guess. Doesn't mean it's true.

    As to the op I don't know, sorry, imo it depends upon the context
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  3. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Where we are concerned I guess I would agree, although I'm not sure how or why that would matter to us if we cannot hear or grasp God's will anyway; it will often appear as if God is maybe going against His will, as Christ revealed?
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    All that we see is perfect and cannot get any better since it stems from God's eternal decree. We see confusion and misery, God saw that all he created was good (according to his purpose).
     
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  5. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    The question is in error.

    God is ("I am"), "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Yet the question infers a will for the future that is different tomorrow than today.
     
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  6. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Whatever God decides IS good. There is no good above God and His will. There is no Christian morality.
     
  7. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Are you a artifact hunter
     
  8. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    I am enjoying the exchange between you and @Episkopos. It is a good thing to contemplate. Thanks!

    But here you suggest that freedom is a limitation on our Unlimited God, making "freedom" the wrong term. Choosing perfection exclusively is in itself perfection. However, the mystery of God, is that He alone has the ability to "lower" Himself and remain unscathed in His perfection, adding perfection to perfection, i.e., expanding His tent.

    There can be no more or less perfection with God, but He has accomplished to add or make more [of] what is perfect, "just as He is perfect."
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  9. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    BINGO!
     
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  10. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Nothing in his statement implies any of the above.
     
  11. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and that is the error.
     
  12. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but as usual your posts don't make sense. Trying to get you to elaborate is futile because it becomes even more senseless.

    My point stands, you made a false implication and assertion against his post.
     
  13. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    How so? Please elaborate. That is, if you can stop with your derogatory criticisms.

    Otherwise, butt out, go back to school and learn a little more about what you are being critical of. And by the way, my comment was clear and concise.
     
  14. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    So you feel wounded? OK!

    Saying your posts are senseless is regarding your posts, not your person. But instead of comprehending this distinction you go on to criticize me personally, which is OK with me, it doesn't bother me, just an observation that you feel hurt or derogated.

    Been through this with you before, you never clarify you statements, THEY just become more muddled. Your comment was off base, I replied to it, you felt insulted by my next response which was an observation: your posts are senseless and it is futile to attempt to get you to clarify.

    Go read your first post of which I responded to, then read my response and see the clarity of my rebuttal.

    Thank you, no need to respond, or, you can get your last word in. Would be nice to see you admit that my statement to your post showed your false assertions. But anyhow, get your last word in.
     
  15. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    That's not biblical. Fruit. Kinda tells the whole tale.
     
  16. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Certified Flunky

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    Where the problem stems with the word free is that free doesn't mean that anything and everything goes, is truly free. We are free to drive a vehicle anywhere in the USA, but we have limitations in this freedom. We're not allowed to drive while intoxicated/under the influence of drugs, no driver's license, no insurance, no registration, &c. We have freedom of speech, yet we can't use this freedom to threaten another person with bodily harm. We have the right to bear arms, but we can't own fully automatic weapons, go around shooting up places, &c. So, being free does have its limitations.

    God's will is free, yet He can not violate His will and sin. He can not lie, He can not murder, and so on. God is eternal and we are created beings, so to say God has free will and we are made in His likeness, so we have free will, is a misnomer. We can lie, cheat, steal, murder, commit adultery/fornication, God can do none of those.

    Its like the person in a 10' x 10' prison cell. They can freely move within the confines of that cell, but they can not go past those steel bars. Its that way with our wills. Our wills move freely within the confines of our nature, but can not go past the nature it is encapsulated in. The only way we can get past the confines of our fallen nature is for God to come and change our nature. Change the nature, change the will.

    “Can the Ethiopian change his skin Or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good Who are accustomed to doing evil."[Jeremiah 13:23]
     
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  17. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    The problem is, you cannot trust God if his will is not bound by his nature. He could arbitrarily send everyone in heaven to hell, just to prove he can do it. We have faith in God because He is all that his attributes are.
     
  18. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    You're all over the place and your comment is self-contradictory.

    To say that God can add to his perfection "expanding his tent" is a rather cursory remark. This type of thinking leads to errors such as Open Theism.

    Note Acts 17:29. Note Psalm 50:21. God is to be thought of on a much much higher plane, he is not like us.

    God is perfect. This perfection cannot be added to, as, if it were, then he is not nor was ever perfect. To say he is adding to his perfection is to be as off track as Harry Emerson Fosdick.

    It appears that much of your posting has to do with some sort of philosophy, attempts to make a splash, or show some sort of wisdom which is why they are off base and unbiblical. Stick to the Scriptures, 2 Timothy 4:1-4; 2 Timothy 2:15 and its teachings, not your own understanding. Nothing you've stated here is biblical doctrine.
     
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  19. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    God doesn't have an R&D department. He knows, does, accomplishes all things perfectly well, knowing all things instantly and perfectly. He didn't draw up multitudes of scenarios, scrapping some due to unforeseen issues, or what have you. He is God, perfect in all his ways, and does not learn or grow in perfection, power or knowledge. He is immutable.
     
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  20. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    That again, assumes change in whom there is no change.

    The idea of God having a "nature", is somewhat of a departure also. It suggests that He is less infinite than should be attributed to Him. Created things and people have "nature", because they fall into a "type", "interest" or "influence", all of which are limitations.
     
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