NDEs and ADCs: Their Apologetic Value for Christian Witness

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AN ADC AS PHYSICAL AS ANY OF JESUS' RESURRECTION APPEARANCES

(4a) :Leonard was a wealthy elderly businessman who was a beloved member of a church I pastored in western New York. On a few occasions I had dinner with him and his wife Helen. He was very anxious that I visit his brother, his wife, and his cousin when they had health issues. But one day it dawned on me that he seemed to have little or no grief about the premature deaths of his son Jeff, Jeff's wife Karen, and their 2 children in a small plane crash. One day Leonard asked me to visit him to discuss a possible visit to his dying cousin who lived across the road who had refused any visitation. Leonard wasn't home, but I found myself remarking to Helen at how easily Leonard seemed to adjust to the tragic deaths of his young son's family. Helen replied cryptically, "Oh, that's because Jeff visited him, but Leonard doesn't like to talk about that!" Curious, I took the risk to make the same observation to Leonard the next time I saw him. His responded with the most dramatically supernatural encounter I've ever encountered.

Leonard told me that after the funeral he was about to drive Jeff's pickup truck to town on an errand. As he approached the end of his driveway, he noticed a figure looming from the ditch by the highway. It was his late son Jeff! Jeff approached the pickup, saying, "Hi Dad, do you mind if I drive my pickup for old time's sake?" A stunned Leonard slid over and Jeff got in and drove his pickup north towards Rochester, NY on Rte. 37. Jeff assured his Dad and he and his family were together and OK and then revealed the details of his financial investments to help Leonard settle his estate. After driving a few miles, Jeff abruptly turned right on a less traveled highway and drove a couple of miles until they approached a thicket of woods. Jeff then solemnly remarked: "I'm sorry, Dad, but I'm not permitted to drive any further." Jeff then got out of the pickup, walked towards the woods, and dematerialized! A stunned Leonard then drove the pickup home.

Leonard told me that Jeff's paranormal visit did little to ease his grief because he was in shock and the whole adventure seemed too surreal to be real. But everything changed the next morning. Leonard awakened with a heavy heart and went for a walk in the woods behind his house to ease his grief. He was soon overcome by a weeping spell and sat down on a log. Then he heard a branch crack and saw a young woman approaching. It was Jeff's late wife Karen! She chided him, "Dad, didn't we tell you that we are all together and OK? So what are you doing grieving like this? You get back in the house and comfort Mom (Helen)!" It was Karen's comforting visit that dispatched most of Leonard's grief.

After sharing this amazing account, Leonard gazed at my incredulous expression with great concern and I felt ashamed because he hadn't wanted to share this experience and I had goaded him into sharing it. I apologized, adding that I was grateful that he shared his ADC and I just needed time to process what I'd heard.

I asked him if he had shared this experience with his 2 daughters and he said No. He didn't want his family to think he was crazy. I left to pastor another church a year later and eventually heard that Leonard had passed away, but that his daughter had shared his ADC at his funeral service. Apparently, my sympathetic listening had encouraged him to share his ADC with his daughters.

I'm impressed by the twin confirmations that Leonard's grief was gloriously terminated by this most miraculous ADC and by the unknown information received during the ADC about his son Jeff's investments. I have found that this testimony in particular has opened the minds of intelligent skeptics to the Gospel in a way that no standard presentation of the Gospel could. in so doing, it lends added credibility to Gospel resurrection narratives.

(3b) Not all ADCs feature souls secure in Heaven. You will remember the bald actor, Telly Savalas, who starred in the Kojak TV series. Telly shares an ADC analogous to Leonard's in an interview:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D861&FORM=VIRE

I suspect that the discarnate driver is trapped in Hades.
The problem with NDE style evangelism is that it coaxes the flesh to believe. But this type of belief cannot save.
 

CoreIssue

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AN ADC AS PHYSICAL AS ANY OF JESUS' RESURRECTION APPEARANCES

(4a) :Leonard was a wealthy elderly businessman who was a beloved member of a church I pastored in western New York. On a few occasions I had dinner with him and his wife Helen. He was very anxious that I visit his brother, his wife, and his cousin when they had health issues. But one day it dawned on me that he seemed to have little or no grief about the premature deaths of his son Jeff, Jeff's wife Karen, and their 2 children in a small plane crash. One day Leonard asked me to visit him to discuss a possible visit to his dying cousin who lived across the road who had refused any visitation. Leonard wasn't home, but I found myself remarking to Helen at how easily Leonard seemed to adjust to the tragic deaths of his young son's family. Helen replied cryptically, "Oh, that's because Jeff visited him, but Leonard doesn't like to talk about that!" Curious, I took the risk to make the same observation to Leonard the next time I saw him. His responded with the most dramatically supernatural encounter I've ever encountered.

Leonard told me that after the funeral he was about to drive Jeff's pickup truck to town on an errand. As he approached the end of his driveway, he noticed a figure looming from the ditch by the highway. It was his late son Jeff! Jeff approached the pickup, saying, "Hi Dad, do you mind if I drive my pickup for old time's sake?" A stunned Leonard slid over and Jeff got in and drove his pickup north towards Rochester, NY on Rte. 37. Jeff assured his Dad and he and his family were together and OK and then revealed the details of his financial investments to help Leonard settle his estate. After driving a few miles, Jeff abruptly turned right on a less traveled highway and drove a couple of miles until they approached a thicket of woods. Jeff then solemnly remarked: "I'm sorry, Dad, but I'm not permitted to drive any further." Jeff then got out of the pickup, walked towards the woods, and dematerialized! A stunned Leonard then drove the pickup home.

Leonard told me that Jeff's paranormal visit did little to ease his grief because he was in shock and the whole adventure seemed too surreal to be real. But everything changed the next morning. Leonard awakened with a heavy heart and went for a walk in the woods behind his house to ease his grief. He was soon overcome by a weeping spell and sat down on a log. Then he heard a branch crack and saw a young woman approaching. It was Jeff's late wife Karen! She chided him, "Dad, didn't we tell you that we are all together and OK? So what are you doing grieving like this? You get back in the house and comfort Mom (Helen)!" It was Karen's comforting visit that dispatched most of Leonard's grief.

After sharing this amazing account, Leonard gazed at my incredulous expression with great concern and I felt ashamed because he hadn't wanted to share this experience and I had goaded him into sharing it. I apologized, adding that I was grateful that he shared his ADC and I just needed time to process what I'd heard.

I asked him if he had shared this experience with his 2 daughters and he said No. He didn't want his family to think he was crazy. I left to pastor another church a year later and eventually heard that Leonard had passed away, but that his daughter had shared his ADC at his funeral service. Apparently, my sympathetic listening had encouraged him to share his ADC with his daughters.

I'm impressed by the twin confirmations that Leonard's grief was gloriously terminated by this most miraculous ADC and by the unknown information received during the ADC about his son Jeff's investments. I have found that this testimony in particular has opened the minds of intelligent skeptics to the Gospel in a way that no standard presentation of the Gospel could. in so doing, it lends added credibility to Gospel resurrection narratives.

(3b) Not all ADCs feature souls secure in Heaven. You will remember the bald actor, Telly Savalas, who starred in the Kojak TV series. Telly shares an ADC analogous to Leonard's in an interview:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D861&FORM=VIRE

I suspect that the discarnate driver is trapped in Hades.
Near Death Experience
 

Berserk

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I see everyone has frozen like Bambi in the headlights at my challenge to reconstruct a contradiction-free sequence of events after the discovery of the empty tomb. From this deafening silence it is obvious that NDEs and ADCs can play a useful role in lending credibility to resurrection claims that tax an honest skeptic's credulity. I reissue my challenge again to underline my point.
 

CoreIssue

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I see everyone has frozen like Bambi in the headlights at my challenge to reconstruct a contradiction-free sequence of events after the discovery of the empty tomb. From this deafening silence it is obvious that NDEs and ADCs can play a useful role in lending credibility to resurrection claims that tax an honest skeptic's credulity. I reissue my challenge again to underline my point.

No they cannot. They do not deal with resurrection.

Watch the videos I posted that link. It is an extensive discussion on these issues from people of firsthand experience.
 

Berserk

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(5) ATHEIST HOWARD SRORM'S THRILLING CONVERSION THROUGH AN NDE

Howard Storm had been an atheist Art History professor who took delight in ridiculing the naivite of Christians. But he was gloriously saved through his NDE. Howard had previously been a university art history professor who took delight in ridiculing Christian students. Howard's testimony is the most powerful one I have ever heard on Youtube. He has given it several times on the internet. Here is one of the shorter versions. It will thrill your soul:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2E6D15E1B57D8F1E28962E6D15E1B57D8F1&FORM=VIRE

Howard wrote a book on his experience and the aftermath called "My Descent into Death," which offers a much more extensive account of his Q and A session with Jesus and the angels. After his conversion, he attends a non-Charismatic church and is immediately "slain in the Spirit!" His wife and the church members think he has had a heart attack, but in fact he has been overwhelmed by a vision of the angels joining the congregation in worship. For the presence of angels in church worship, see 1 Corinthians 11:10' cp. Revelation 1-3). Soon God calls Howard into full-time ministry.
 
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CoreIssue

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(5) ATHEIST HOWARD SRORM'S THRILLING CONVERSION THROUGH AN NDE

Howard Storm had been an atheist Art History professor who took delight in ridiculing the naivite of Christians. But he was gloriously saved through his NDE. Howard had previously been a university art history professor who took delight in ridiculing Christian students. Howard's testimony is the most powerful one I have ever heard on Youtube. He has given it several times on the internet. Here is one of the shorter versions. It will thrill your soul:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2E6D15E1B57D8F1E28962E6D15E1B57D8F1&FORM=VIRE

Howard wrote a book on his experience and the aftermath called "My Descent into Death," which offers a much more extensive account of his Q and A session with Jesus and the angels. After his conversion, he attends a non-Charismatic church and is immediately "slain in the Spirit!" His wife and the church members think he has had a heart attack, but in fact he has been overwhelmed by a vision of the angels joining the congregation in worship. For the presence of angels in church worship, see 1 Corinthians 11:10' cp. Revelation 1-3). Soon God calls Howard into full-time ministry.
Show me SLAIN in the spirit in the Bible

The video show with it coming from the occult.
 

Berserk

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CoreIssue: "Show me SLAIN in the spirit in the Bible

You just need to get into the Word more: e. g.

"When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead (Revelation 1:17)."
"If all prophesy, an unbeliever or outsider who enters is reproved by all and called to account by all. The secrets of his heart are disclosed and falling on his face, he will worship God (1 Corinthians 14:24-25)."
Such biblical examples could be multiplied.

CoreIssue: "The video show with it coming from the occult."

Meaningless gibberish! You bias prompts you to mindlessly label without substantiating your bogus claim.
 

CoreIssue

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CoreIssue: "Show me SLAIN in the spirit in the Bible

You just need to get into the Word more: e. g.

"When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead (Revelation 1:17)."
"If all prophesy, an unbeliever or outsider who enters is reproved by all and called to account by all. The secrets of his heart are disclosed and falling on his face, he will worship God (1 Corinthians 14:24-25)."
Such biblical examples could be multiplied.

CoreIssue: "The video show with it coming from the occult."

Meaningless gibberish! You bias prompts you to mindlessly label without substantiating your bogus claim.
Revelation has nothing to do was slain in the spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:24-25 New International Version (NIV)
24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

New International Version (NIV)

Voluntarily going to their knees, not slain in the spirit.

I have 58 years.

You do not even know the difference between meaning of words and Word.
 

Berserk

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Core Issue: "Slain in the spirit didn't exist until the 1900s. It is of OCCULT origin."

More uneducated pontifications from ignorance! In fact, seekers were "slain in the Spirit in both the First and Second Great Awakenings in the 18th and 19th century respectively. Indeed, the father of Methodism, John Wesley reports the phenomenon is the Great English Methodist revival of the 1700s. T educate yourself about this, see:

"Slain in the Spirit" Considered From Scripture and History | Apologetics Index

CoreIssue: "Revelation (1:17) has nothing to do was slain in the spirit."

Wrong! The context of my remarks is Howard Storm's NDE and the lingering anointing of the Holy Spirit. In Revelation 1:17 John is overcome with awe at the sight of the risen Lord. Similarly, Howard Storm is overcome with awe at the sight of angels floating in the sanctuary of the first (non-Pentecostal!) church he attends after his marvelous NDE conversion experience. A perfect parallel--and totally consistent with what Pentecostals mean by being "slain in the Spirit." Unlike you, I speak from direct experience as someone who has been exposed to Pentecostal manifestations all my life.

CoreIssue: "You do not even know the difference between meaning of words and Word."

LOL! I have been a New Testament professor for several years and know Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. By contrast, you obviously lack advanced academic education in New Testament studies. Your next comment demonstrates this ignorance.

CoreIssue: "1 Corinthians 14:24-25: Voluntarily going to their knees, not slain in the spirit."

You can't even get the quote right because you don't know Greek and are therefore forced to use a poor translation. The outsiders aren't "going to their knees;" it's a more forceful act than that. Under heavy conviction after having their secret sins exposed, they are "falling on their face!"

And don't make the mistake of restricting the phenomenon of being slain in the Spirit with a reaction to the laying on of hands. Unfortunately, biased people like you feel the need to stereotype spiritual experiences by their worst exemplars. Now demonstrate a modicum of integrity by actually watching the testimony you disparage!
 

CoreIssue

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Core Issue: "Slain in the spirit didn't exist until the 1900s. It is of OCCULT origin."

More uneducated pontifications from ignorance! In fact, seekers were "slain in the Spirit in both the First and Second Great Awakenings in the 18th and 19th century respectively. Indeed, the father of Methodism, John Wesley reports the phenomenon is the Great English Methodist revival of the 1700s. T educate yourself about this, see:

"Slain in the Spirit" Considered From Scripture and History | Apologetics Index

CoreIssue: "Revelation (1:17) has nothing to do was slain in the spirit."

Wrong! The context of my remarks is Howard Storm's NDE and the lingering anointing of the Holy Spirit. In Revelation 1:17 John is overcome with awe at the sight of the risen Lord. Similarly, Howard Storm is overcome with awe at the sight of angels floating in the sanctuary of the first (non-Pentecostal!) church he attends after his marvelous NDE conversion experience. A perfect parallel--and totally consistent with what Pentecostals mean by being "slain in the Spirit." Unlike you, I speak from direct experience as someone who has been exposed to Pentecostal manifestations all my life.

CoreIssue: "You do not even know the difference between meaning of words and Word."

LOL! I have been a New Testament professor for several years and know Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. By contrast, you obviously lack advanced academic education in New Testament studies. Your next comment demonstrates this ignorance.

CoreIssue: "1 Corinthians 14:24-25: Voluntarily going to their knees, not slain in the spirit."

You can't even get the quote right because you don't know Greek and are therefore forced to use a poor translation. The outsiders aren't "going to their knees;" it's a more forceful act than that. Under heavy conviction after having their secret sins exposed, they are "falling on their face!"

And don't make the mistake of restricting the phenomenon of being slain in the Spirit with a reaction to the laying on of hands. Unfortunately, biased people like you feel the need to stereotype spiritual experiences by their worst exemplars. Now demonstrate a modicum of integrity by actually watching the testimony you disparage!
I repeat, what you are pushing comes from the occult was not found in Christianity until the 1900s.
 

Berserk

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I repeat, what you are pushing comes from the occult was not found in Christianity until the 1900s.

You have now been decisively refuted by sound biblical exegesis and historical documentation and are no longer worth a response. Indeed, you don't even understand what the "occult" is, and so, are reduced to throwing around negative labels that you don't understand.
 

CoreIssue

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You have now been decisively refuted by sound biblical exegesis and historical documentation and are no longer worth a response. Indeed, you don't even understand what the "occult" is, and so, are reduced to throwing around negative labels that you don't understand.
So you didn't watch any of the videos.

You absolutely did not refute me.
 

Berserk

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(6) BR is a missionary to an African Muslim nation. He shared this testimonh in my parents' church. 2 young missionaries were doing hospital visitation and praying for the gravely ill. Ahmed was dying of AIDs; so they prayed for his healing. But Ahmed was a radical Muslim mullah who hated Christians. He would later say that he wanted to kill this couple for their presumption in praying for a Muslim, but was too weak to move. That night he had an NDE or vision of a man in a white robe approaching his bed and laying hands on him. The man vanished without leaving the room and this frightened Ahmed. So he managed to push a button summoning a nurse and asked her to check to see if a man was hiding under his bed! Soon he felt greatly improved, but not cured, improved enough to leave the hospital. He now recognized that the visionary man was Jesus; so he sought out the young missionaries who had prayed for him. They laid hands on Ahmed and he was completely cured of AIDs and gloriously converted!

As a Muslim mullah, Ahmed was greatly respected in the Muslim community. He began to share his testimony in his neighborhood public squares and the persecution was swift in reprisal. Muslims pelted him with stones. But though bloodied, he returned day after day to resume his witness. After he shared Ahmed's testimony, BR said that Ahmed wanted him to join him in his witness, but BR declined, saying he lacked the courage to risk his life in this way. BR was home on furlough and confessed that he was unsure whether Ahmed's reckless testimony had already gotten him killed.I

I know that this site attracts few truth seekers. But I feel compelled to repost atheist Howard Storm's NDE testimony because I'm convinced that it will change the way you view NDEs and ADCs:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2E6D15E1B57D8F1E28962E6D15E1B57D8F1&FORM=VIRE

I repeat: the evidence for postmortem survival from NDEs is superior to that for Jesus' resurrection and, for that very reason, confirms the resurrection. If you care about winning the lost, then NDEs and ADCs can be a priceless weapon in your witnessing arsenal. I know this by direct experience.
 

Berserk

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Roger, and I became friends through an anti-Christian metaphysical site. Roger was a very bright executive with the U. S. Federal agency HUD. But Roger remained an agnostic even though I convinced him that he had experienced a supernatural rescue when he was an 8-year old boy. Roger and an 8-year old friend were looking for pollywogs in an isolated wooded area near his parents' summer cottage in Fort Erie, Ontario, where there was almost no traffic on the nearest dirt road. When I visited him there, he showed me the exact spot where this happened. Suddenly a stranger drove up, raced toward Roger, got on top of him in a choke hold, and dragged him towards the nearby woods, while Roger's buddy looked on, frozen with terror. Suddenly, a young woman drove up in a red convertible and a red dress, got out of her car, walked towards this assault, and asked, "Is there a problem here?" The assailant fled and the woman dematerialized! I asked Roger 2 questions that convinced him to acknowledge that the woman was a guardian angel: (1) Did the woman have time to walk back to her car before you turned to thank her? No. (2) Isn't it more likely that a real woman would remain in her car and shout her question rather than approach a dangerous assault in progress? Yes. Roger was convinced that he benefitted from supernatural intervention from a guardian angel, but was unwilling to embark on a spiritual quest for a relationship with the God who sent her.

Strictly speaking, Roger's childhood experience was an ADC only if the woman in red was a discarnate human rather than a guardian angel. An ADC narrated to him by a co-worker blew him away, even though Roger remains unwilling to launch a deep quest to find God real in his life. I'll recount this ADC in my next planned post.
 

O'Darby

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Hey, Berserk, I'm Irkle Berserkle on another forum, and no one has ever questioned my sanity! I have experienced a number of compelling ADCs and have been a serious student of the NDE phenomenon (as well as a member of IANDS) for decades. Dr. Gary Habermas, one of the foremost scholars on the Resurrection, has also written extensively about NDEs.

That being said, I attach little or no weight to explicitly "Christian" NDEs and ADCs. The phenomena are just too all over the map. I believe their greatest value is as pretty compelling evidence that consciousness survives bodily death.

I also find that trying to discuss NDEs and ADCs on Christian forums is unproductive. Most people have no real grasp of the phenomena, and many go directly into knee-jerk, fearful fundie mode when exposed to things like this.
 
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Berserk

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(7) A SHARED ADC: The book, “Lighted Passage,” was brought to the attention of an agnostic friend of mine by a colleague who worked with him at HUD and was a relative of the author, Dr. Howell Vincent. Dr. Vincent, a Presbyterian minister, wrote this book, about his daughter Rea and her death in a car accident on her honeymoon. His description of a shared ADC involving his late first wife Nellie and other family members is quoted from p. 25:

“On at least 2 occasions this radiant mother had come to Rea in visible tangible form and talked with her…I was privileged to be present at one of these heavenly visits by Mother Nellie. Together with Rea I talked with Nellie, fully recognizing her face and form and voice. I saw her place her hand on Rea’s head in blessing, and I saw her give Rea a flower, a calendula, which we pressed and kept. At that time 3 other members of our family were present, including Rea’s second mother, Agnes, and they all saw Nellie and talked with her, as Rea and I did. We were all wide awake and walked around the room with Nellie.”
From an evidential perspective this testimony rivals the Gospel resurrection stories and, for that very reason, lends them added credibility. Rev. Vincent’s testimony certainly opened my agnostic HUD executive friend’s heart to the Gospel and the possibility that Jesus really did rise from the dead."

I wonder if the etheric calendula in the family album is available for scientific chemical examination. I heard an interview with a Dr. Lind, who witnessed a dying patient’s face light up in response to a take-away family apparition. The patient cupped her hand to receive a 4-leaf clover which she gave to Dr. Lind, saying it was a gift for him from her deceased relative. Dr. Lind put it in a glass, but in a few days it had dematerialized! Similarly, a parishioner of a UMC church I pastored (Bob) was meditating on paranormal manifestations in our congregation, when he received his deceased mother’s long lost wedding ring. It appeared in the center of his made bed, but then dematerialized not long thereafter. I wonder if the calendula remains pressed in that sc
 

Ronald Nolette

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Let me begin with this disclaimer: I am an evangelical Christian for whom Christ's atoning death and resurrection are the anchor of my faith. But at their best, the verifications inherent in ADCs (=After-Death Contacts) and NDEs (near-death experiences) replicate by their seemingly "physical confirmations" and other verifications the evidence that persuaded the disciples that Jesus is alive. In my experience of witnessing, NDEs and ADCs can be more effective than any Bible-based apologetics. To demonstrate why, I will share some of the most mind-blowing evidential NDEs and ADCs I have encountered, including some of the most convincing which have not been published.
NDE's and ADC's need to be handled very very very carefully. Most are at best very dubious as to their honesty.

But they can be a tool to help if they are honest. Remember in the bible all ADES and NDEs resulted in dramatic change in a persons life and a deep following of God. MOst today do not.

But as for the most effective tool for evangelizing?

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:13-15

King James Version

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Anything else should be a tool to exalt the gospel message.
 

Gottservant

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The problem is that NDEs and ADCs don't substitute for the work of a changed life, and so cannot increase the trust of God on their own.

If a NDE or ADC provoked a confession worthy of God, then we would have the beginning of the commitment of a life committed to God.

Plenty of people say "been there, done that" and end up in Hell.

But I am not trying to corner the good works of vulnerable people, I say "trust God with your NDE or ADC and do the works He asks of you, and then we will believe that Christ has changed your life!"

"Which of you by worrying, can add one cubit, to his stature?" (gospels)