New blood covenant and new covenant to Israel and Judah

[CoreIssue]

Constantly seeing people trying to say these are the same thing when they are not.

When I asked them they Judah or Israel they go silent.

So let's take a look and discuss the issues.

 

[CoreIssue]

19. What's New About the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:6-13) | Bible.org

 

[CoreIssue]

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

My understanding of the Greek Root, G:2537, is different to the Strong definition where the definition is given as: -

G:2537 καινός kainos (kahee-nos'); of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G:3501 is properly so with respect to age: - KJV - new.
​

My understanding is that the Hebrew Root word καινός has more to do with the freshness of the article rather than with the "age" of the article. This is demonstrated by Christ in the parable of the New wine in the New Wineskins using the KJV label, where G:3501,Neos, newly created wine from a wine press is placed in recently, G:2537 kaimos, freshened, wineskins otherwise the wine skins will burst. Even a brand new unused wineskin if it has aged and become hard and brittle before it is used, will burst if it has not been refreshed before it is used. Leather requires to be refreshed frequently so that it remains useable during its useful life.

In Hebrews 8, the chapter is talking about a, G:2537, refreshed covenant and not about a brand new covenant which is the argument of the links provided above.

It is speaking of the renewal of the Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the nations Covenant and that Christ is the first administrative Priest under the provisions of that covenant, where the process for the reconciliation for iniquity was changed at the cross. The Israelites, natural and grafted, in our near future will join with Christ as serving Priests under that same modified covenantal provisions.

In Matthew 13:52 Christ tells us that He came to administer a very ancient but refurbished covenant which leads to the salvation of all who respond to its terms and conditions.

The understanding of there now being a "brand new" covenant in place of the old Mt Sinai covenant is our, i.e. man's, understanding of the purposes of Christ's first advent. He came to establish a new process where by salvation of all the nations would become possible for both the Jews and the Gentiles. The nation of Israel will become the first fruits of the established Kingdom of God after it has been established during the time of the kings here on the earth.

Shalom

 

[Enoch111]

When I asked them they Judah or Israel they go silent.

The reason you did not get a response is because you have a TOTAL MISUNDERSTANDING of this important topic.There is no such thing as New blood covenant and new covenant to Israel and Judah.

THERE IS ONLY ONE NEW COVENANT
Hebrews 8 makes it crystal clear that there is only one New Covenant, and the Lord Jesus Christ is the Mediator of that Covenant. If fact I asked you to study the epistle to the Hebrews, but evidently you did not do so.
Let's take a close look at Hebrews 8.

CHRIST: HIGH PRIEST AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

THE TRUE TABERNACLE/TEMPLE IS IN HEAVEN
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

CHRIST OFFERED HIMSELF AND HIS BLOOD AS THE PERFECT SACRIFICE
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

CHRIST WAS NOT A HIGH PRIEST ON EARTH
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD: A SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

CHRIST: THE MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT WITH BETTER PROMISES
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

THE OLD COVENANT WAS NOT WITHOUT FAULT
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

A NEW COVENANT PROMISED TO ISRAEL AND JUDAH
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

ISRAEL VIOLATED THE OLD COVENANT
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

THE NEW COVENANT: NOT ON TABLETS OF STONE - SPIRITUAL AND BETTER
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

THE NEW COVENANT = A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

ISRAEL TO BE REDEEMED UNDER THE NEW COVENANT IN FUTURE
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

THE OLD COVENANT: ABOLISHED
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Since Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant for BOTH the Church and redeemed and restored Israel, there is no such this as New blood covenant and new covenant to Israel and Judah.

 

[CoreIssue]

The reason you did not get a response is because you have a TOTAL MISUNDERSTANDING of this important topic.There is no such thing as New blood covenant and new covenant to Israel and Judah.

THERE IS ONLY ONE NEW COVENANT
Hebrews 8 makes it crystal clear that there is only one New Covenant, and the Lord Jesus Christ is the Mediator of that Covenant. If fact I asked you to study the epistle to the Hebrews, but evidently you did not do so.
Let's take a close look at Hebrews 8.

CHRIST: HIGH PRIEST AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

THE TRUE TABERNACLE/TEMPLE IS IN HEAVEN
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

CHRIST OFFERED HIMSELF AND HIS BLOOD AS THE PERFECT SACRIFICE
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

CHRIST WAS NOT A HIGH PRIEST ON EARTH
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD: A SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

CHRIST: THE MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT WITH BETTER PROMISES
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

THE OLD COVENANT WAS NOT WITHOUT FAULT
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

A NEW COVENANT PROMISES TO ISRAEL AND JUDAH
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

ISRAEL VIOLATED THE OLD COVENANT
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

THE NEW COVENANT: NOT ON TABLETS OF STONE - SPIRITUAL AND BETTER
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

THE NEW COVENANT = A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

ISRAEL TO BE REDEEMED UNDER THE NEW COVENANT IN FUTURE
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

THE OLD COVENANT: ABOLISHED
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Since Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant for BOTH the Church and redeemed and restored Israel, there is no such this as New blood covenant and new covenant to Israel and Judah.

Matthew 26:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 8:6-13 New International Version (NIV)
6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and saida]">[a]:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”b]">[b]

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Where do you find Gentiles in this passage? Nowhere.

I repeat my question, are you Israel and Judah

 

[Enoch111]

Where do you find Gentiles in this passage? Nowhere.

Plenty of other passages in Scripture. I will quote one, since you are not doing your due diligence:

EPHESIANS 3
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[justbyfaith]

I repeat my question, are you Israel and Judah

The answer: yes, I am graffed into the olive tree that is Israel and Judah:

Rom 11:16, For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17, And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18, Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19, Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23, And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24, For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

[CoreIssue]

Plenty of other passages in Scripture. I will quote one, since you are not doing your due diligence:

EPHESIANS 3
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

For the New Covenant of Blood. Not the New Covenant to the Houses of Judah and Israel.

Those are not Hebrews.

 

[CoreIssue]

The answer: yes, I am graffed into the olive tree that is Israel and Judah:

Rom 11:16, For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17, And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18, Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19, Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23, And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24, For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Replacement Theology.

 

[justbyfaith]

Replacement Theology.

No; for I believe that the seed of Jacob will indeed receive all of the promises given to them in the Old Testament; and that Israel is not the church.

I do believe, however, that the scripture in question would teach us that we can be graffed into Israel and that this is salvation; and that therefore the church is Israel.

In the sense that all those who believe in Jesus Christ (thereby becoming part of His body, the church) are graffed into New Covenant Israel; even as the scripture in question will tell you if you think on what it means.

Therefore, we do not replace Israel but become graffed into the olive tree that is Israel.

 

[Enoch111]

Therefore, we do not replace Israel but become graffed into the olive tree that is Israel.

Correct. CoreIssue simply cannot grasp this very simple and basic concept. Thus we have this bizarre thread.

 

[CoreIssue]

Correct. CoreIssue simply cannot grasp this very simple and basic concept. Thus we have this bizarre thread.

In your concept Gentiles are replacing Israelite limbs. Know the word replacing?

We are grafted in spiritually, not physically.

The houses of Israel and Judah's physical reference.

I posted materials from others explaining that. Big surprise, you didn't pay attention to either.

 

[justbyfaith]

We are grafted in spiritually, not physically.

How does that change the interpretation?

 

[CoreIssue]

How does that change the interpretation?

It clarifies.

 

[farouk]

It clarifies.

I think there can be levels of dispensational thinking and understanding. Another way of looking at it is the question of context in Scripture: to whom is the Lord speaking, to which group of people and when?

 

[Enoch111]

In your concept Gentiles are replacing Israelite limbs. Know the word replacing?

You need to get a proper understanding of the Church. Please read and study Romans 11 and all other Scriptures about the Church.

1. The New Covenant was given to Israel (the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, or the twelve tribes of Israel).

2. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant, since it was His shed blood which ratified this Covenant.

4. The New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died, and said "It is finished". The tearing of the temple veil in two meant the end of the Old Covenant.

5. Fifty days after the crucifixion, the Holy Spirit was poured out on earth to fulfill the promise of the Spirit under the New Covenant.

6. Three thousand Jews were saved on the day of Pentecost, and this was the beginning of the Church under the New Covenant.

7. Therefore the New Covenant was applied immediately to Israel, but would not be limited to Israel.

8. Peter was sent to the home of the Gentile Cornelius to begin the grafting of Gentiles into the Church. Therefore the Church consists of the root and tree of believing Israel, and Gentiles are called branches grafted from the wild olive tree into the good olive tree.

9. The New Covenant is an everlasting covenant, which means that after the Second Coming of Christ, all unbelieving Jews will be gathered to the land of Israel, and a believing remnant will be placed within greater Israel during the Millennium (and beyond). They will all be regenerated and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

10. There is only one New Covenant in the blood of Christ, and that covers both the Church and redeemed and restored Israel.

 

[CoreIssue]

I think there can be levels of dispensational thinking and understanding. Another way of looking at it is the question of context in Scripture: to whom is the Lord speaking, to which group of people and when?

Exactly.

Another way to look at it is three-way breakdown you gave understanding there are sub categories in each.

So yes, understanding can come from different correction, but they all arrive at the same endpoint.

 

[justbyfaith]

It clarifies.

I don't see it making any kind of difference.

How does it clarify the issue in your opinion?

 

[farouk]

Exactly.

Another way to look at it is three-way breakdown you gave understanding there are sub categories in each.

So yes, understanding can come from different correction, but they all arrive at the same endpoint.

I think many professing evangelicals will have some basic notions of dispensational distinctives, but they seem to co-exist with other political and philosophical assumptions which are not necessarily in keeping with them. So it's really a matter of being challenged from Scripture about what it really means to be a heavenly people, what grace really is, what the church really is, etc.