Dispensationalism

[CoreIssue]

Hi

Found this....1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

1 Peter 3:21 is speaking of Israel and the resurrection of Jesus....see post below if you would like

1 PETER 3:18 BAPTISM SAVES

1 Peter 3:18 New International Version (NIV)
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

1 PETER is not speaking of Israel. It is addressing Christian Jews.

You took Corinthian's out of context. It is a criticism.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written:

“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”e]">[e]

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

 

[prism]

I've given him the Romans 11 scripture half a doz times and he writes it off.

Oh, you've noticed that too? LOL

 

[prism]

Circumcision made one a physical Jew and Jesus took it away.

Guess there are no Jewesses.
Actually physical Jew are those descended from Abraham thru Isaac through Jacob...remember the 12 Tribes?

 

[Dave L]

Guess there are no Jewesses.
Actually physical Jew are those descended from Abraham thru Isaac through Jacob...remember the 12 Tribes?

Blood relatives became gentiles if not circumcised. Women were considered circumcised through their fathers or husbands.

 

[Dave L]

False

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:14)

 

[charity]

Subject: Dispensationalism

Hello there,

These issues being raised, and disputed over, are the result of not rightly dividing the word of truth. For what applied under one administration of God, is being applied in a dispensation which succeeded it, when it was not intended to do so, and vice versa, thus causing confusion.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dave L]

Subject: Dispensationalism

Hello there,

These issues being raised, and disputed over, are the result of not rightly dividing the word of truth. For what applied under one administration of God, is being applied in a dispensation which succeeded it, when it was not intended to do so, and vice versa, thus causing confusion.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I think scripture naturally divides between the two covenants (OT-NT) and after the book of Revelation appears. And the Apostles and gifts cease with the full revelation of scripture in circulation at that time.

 

[CoreIssue]

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:14)

That is Mosaic covenant.

 

[Dave L]

That is Mosaic covenant.

Abrahamic also used by Moses............

 

[farouk]

Subject: Dispensationalism

Hello there,

These issues being raised, and disputed over, are the result of not rightly dividing the word of truth. For what applied under one administration of God, is being applied in a dispensation which succeeded it, when it was not intended to do so, and vice versa, thus causing confusion.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I can see this general principle, yes, from 2 Timothy 2.15.

 

[prism]

Blood relatives became gentiles if not circumcised. Women were considered circumcised through their fathers or husbands.

So those descended through Jacob may have lived like pagans in their unbelief but they were still Jews and the original promises are still extended.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(Rom 11:28-29)

 

[Dave L]

So those descended through Jacob may have lived like pagans in their unbelief but they were still Jews and the original promises are still extended.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(Rom 11:28-29)

“For all the promises of God in him [Jesus] are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

 

[farouk]

“For all the promises of God in him [Jesus] are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

Great verse; I seem to end up quoting it so much.

 

[charity]

'But as God is true,
our word toward you was not yea and nay.
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ,
Who was preached among you by us,
even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus,
was not yea and nay,
but in Him was yea.
For all the promises of God in Him are yea,
and in Him Amen,
unto the glory of God
by us.'
(2 Corinthians 1:18-20)

Hello @Dave L, and, @farouk,

Yes, all the promises of God are sure, for they are, 'in Him' - in Christ Jesus. This is true. However, you, @Dave L, are using this verse for a purpose, would you explain, please, what that purpose is? So that I may know how to respond, beyond confirming my belief in the truth of the statement these verses have made concerning the promises of God, as I have here.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

'But as God is true,
our word toward you was not yea and nay.
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ,
Who was preached among you by us,
even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus,
was not yea and nay,
but in Him was yea.
For all the promises of God in Him are yea,
and in Him Amen,
unto the glory of God
by us.'
(2 Corinthians 1:18-20)

Hello @Dave L, and, @farouk,

Yes, all the promises of God are sure, for they are, 'in Him' - in Christ Jesus. This is true. However, you, @Dave L, are using this verse for a purpose, would you explain, please, what that purpose is? So that I may know how to respond, beyond confirming my belief in the truth of the statement these verses have made concerning the promises of God, as I have here.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I guess I would say that it's all part of the heavenly position and spiritual position of the church, as exemplified in Ephesians 1 and the practice of the church in Acts 2.41-42.

 

[charity]

I guess I would say that it's all part of the heavenly position and spiritual position of the church, as exemplified in Ephesians 1 and the practice of the church in Acts 2.41-42.

Hello @farouk,

As a member of the Church of the One Body, of which Christ is the Head, the administration of which applies specifically to this dispensation, and made known by Paul in His letters from prison (Eph. Col. Phil. 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon), based on the doctrinal position of Romans 5:12-8:39. It is not for me to impose upon this dispensation that which applies specifically to another, either past or future, but be true to the truth applicable to this heavenly calling, by His grace.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[charity]

I guess I would say that it's all part of the heavenly position and spiritual position of the church, as exemplified in Ephesians 1 and the practice of the church in Acts 2.41-42.

'Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship,
and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.'
(Acts 2:41-42)

Hi @farouk,

Thank you for your post.

In the light of my previous entry (#116), the practice described in Acts 2:41-42 (above) that you referenced, needs to be considered I believe:- for the doctrine that believers in this present dispensation are to continue steadfastly in, is that detailed by Paul in his later epistles, written after the Divine revelation concerning this present dispensation, based on the ground of Romans 5:12-8:29.

* The believers at Jerusalem in Acts 2, were in the enviable position of being in one place, able to share communal meals (ie., the breaking of bread), and pray together, and steadfastly continue 'together' 'in the apostle's doctrine' concerning the kingdom, and fellowship with one another, weren't they? They were also Jews who had come together for the feast of Pentecost; there would not have been a gentile among them; and though many spoke the languages of the countries that they were dispersed among, they were able to understand the apostles teaching because of the gift of tongues given for that purpose.

* Whereas in this dispensation, when the Church of the One Body are being called out: we are called out from every race and clime, into Christ Jesus, and though separated by distance and language, we are all joined in Christ, and faithfully acknowledge our completeness in Him, and seek to remain true to our calling and our hope, as described in the epistles of Paul (Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon). Looking for that blessed hope and the appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13).

Praise God!

Thank you, farouk,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dave L]

'But as God is true,
our word toward you was not yea and nay.
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ,
Who was preached among you by us,
even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus,
was not yea and nay,
but in Him was yea.
For all the promises of God in Him are yea,
and in Him Amen,
unto the glory of God
by us.'
(2 Corinthians 1:18-20)

Hello @Dave L, and, @farouk,

Yes, all the promises of God are sure, for they are, 'in Him' - in Christ Jesus. This is true. However, you, @Dave L, are using this verse for a purpose, would you explain, please, what that purpose is? So that I may know how to respond, beyond confirming my belief in the truth of the statement these verses have made concerning the promises of God, as I have here.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thanks for asking. Here's how I understand the situation. Jesus is Abraham's seed along with us who believe in him. The physical unbelieving Jews are not. When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, physical unbelieving Israel ceased to exist after that last generation, the one the original Apostles directed their attention to, died off. Israel remained believers only in Christ.

Being gentiles with Jewish ethnicity, God grafts believers from this group back into Israel if they accept Christ. The times of the gentiles remain until the last day. Jesus says; “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world [gentiles] for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” (Matthew 24:14)

And Paul says, “And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob. And this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins.” (Romans 11:26–27)

 

[charity]

Thanks for asking. Here's how I understand the situation. Jesus is Abraham's seed along with us who believe in him. The physical unbelieving Jews are not. When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, physical unbelieving Israel ceased to exist after that last generation, the one the original Apostles directed their attention to, died off. Israel remained believers only in Christ.

Being gentiles with Jewish ethnicity, God grafts believers from this group back into Israel if they accept Christ. The times of the gentiles remain until the last day. Jesus says; “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world [gentiles] for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” (Matthew 24:14)

And Paul says, “And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob. And this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins.” (Romans 11:26–27)

But as God is true,
our word toward you was not yea and nay.
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ,
Who was preached among you by us,
even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus,
was not yea and nay,
but in Him was yea.
For all the promises of God in Him are yea,
and in Him Amen,
unto the glory of God
by us.'im'
(2 Corinthians 1:18-20)

Hello @Dave L,

Thank you for your explanation.

So, you quoted 2 Corinthians 1:20, on the basis of the above explanation, as the proof text to show that 'all the promises of God' are therefore ours 'in Him' (ie., 'in Christ'), regardless of the fact that they were made to Israel as a nation specifically? Have I understood you correctly , Dave?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dave L]

But as God is true,
our word toward you was not yea and nay.
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ,
Who was preached among you by us,
even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus,
was not yea and nay,
but in Him was yea.
For all the promises of God in Him are yea,
and in Him Amen,
unto the glory of God
by us.'im'
(2 Corinthians 1:18-20)

Hello @Dave L,

Thank you for your explanation.

So, you quoted 2 Corinthians 1:20, on the basis of the above explanation, as the proof text to show that 'all the promises of God' are therefore ours 'in Him' (ie., 'in Christ'), regardless of the fact that they were made to Israel as a nation specifically? Have I understood you correctly , Dave?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thanks for looking into this. We are Israel (Abraham's Seed), not the broken off unbelievers who give themselves that name.

“The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.” (Leviticus 25:23)

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” (Galatians 3:16)

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

------------

“This means it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God; rather, the children of promise are counted as descendants.” (Romans 9:8)