Cook off

[Stranger]

@JellyJam concerning your post #(20)


What a whiner. You're the one painting the picture. You said so yourself. I am observing what you are painting. Now, you are upset. You just need a sugar tit and someone to coddle you like a baby.

You're not Christian but now you want to come and dictate who is Christian and who isn't. You atheists and agnostics are all the same.

Really, so how did Jesus act? Sorry, been there, done that.

Stranger

 

[JellyJam]

@JellyJam concerning your post #(20)


What a whiner. You're the one painting the picture. You said so yourself. I am observing what you are painting. Now, you are upset. You just need a sugar tit and someone to coddle you like a baby.

You're not Christian but now you want to come and dictate who is Christian and who isn't. You atheists and agnostics are all the same.

Really, so how did Jesus act? Sorry, been there, done that.

Stranger

Just how the Bible said, you got anything else to go on.

Anywho, I simply don't like you or your policy to agitate your enemies.

Do whatever you like, just don't talk to me anymore.

 

[Stranger]

Just how the Bible said, you got anything else to go on.

Anywho, I simply don't like you or your policy to agitate your enemies.

Do whatever you like, just don't talk to me anymore.

In other words you don't know what the Bible said. Yet, you claim to have been Christian. You claim I am not like Christ yet you can't tell me what Christ was like.

Aww...poor you. You like to agitate Christians but you can't take it yourself. When the rock is lifted up the roaches will run.

Stranger

 

[JellyJam]

In other words you don't know what the Bible said. Yet, you claim to have been Christian. You claim I am not like Christ yet you can't tell me what Christ was like.

Aww...poor you. You like to agitate Christians but you can't take it yourself. When the rock is lifted up the roaches will run.

Stranger

This is the last thing I'll say to you. No one here should expect an outsider that is not Christian to be anything else than a worldly sinner, who obviously needs to be shown by those who do believe, charity.

Love.

However, I really don't give two rat's about it. But if a Christian thinks that they have the right of way to get even with worldly sinful folk, then how are they showing charity.

Love.

This thing going back and forth with us is totally absurd, this is exactly what beliefs do. Make you think that you just can't be wrong about anything, I mean why bother talking to you.

 

[Stranger]

This is the last thing I'll say to you. No one here should expect an outsider that is not Christian to be anything else than a worldly sinner, who obviously needs to be shown by those who do believe in charity.

Love.

However, I really don't give two rat's about it. But if a Christian thinks that they have the right of way to get even with worldly sinful folk, then how are they showing charity.

Love.

This thing going back and forth with us is totally absurd, this is exactly what beliefs do. Make you think that you just can't be wrong about anything, I mean why bother talking to you.

I don't expect anything else from you. You are exactly what you have painted in your portrait. Hypocrite. Liar. One who likes to dish it out but can't take it.

I'm not getting even. I'm just showing you for what you are. I'm just observing the portrait you're painting. I think you don't like your own portrait and now you vent your anger at me. Much better to close your ears than see the truth. But, don't worry, I also expected nothing less from you.

You're not looking for the love or compassion from God or Christians. Your purpose is to mock our faith and God and Christ. Then when you are revealed you cry like a spoiled brat who didn't get his way.

Stranger

 

[Dave L]

Here it is mentioned that Jesus (Who is the almighty) couldn't seem to release his power due to a faith mix up.

Mark 6:5 5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.

I've always questioned this verse, that I can't understand how Jesus power was prevented working in this way. It is a recurring theme in the new testament, that Jesus needed faith from other's for his power to actually work.

I started thinking of how this would work in a real life situation, with a physician today.

Let's say I had cancer, but there was an experimental new drug on the market that was promising.

I decided to take the treatment from my local GP, but before he gave me the medication, he said.

"You must have faith in these pills first, for them to actually work"

The connection here to Jesus healing power is, am I really expected to believe in the medication I need for my cancer first? If the medication can cure me, it can cure me.

Simple.

“And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.” (Mark 6:5–6)

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit in the New Birth. So this verse represents the few genuine believers anywhere. Most believe superficially through the power of the flesh and this type of faith can neither save or heal.

 

[JellyJam]

“And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.” (Mark 6:5–6)

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit in the New Birth. So this verse represents the few genuine believers anywhere. Most believe superficially through the power of the flesh and this type of faith can neither save or heal.

Okay Dave L

If Jesus cannot use his godly abilities unless we have faith in him to use those abilities, then is God incapable of something? Doesn't the general believer rant about how God can do anything, and nothing is impossible for him?

 

[Dave L]

Okay Dave L

If Jesus cannot use his godly abilities unless we have faith in him to use those abilities, then is God incapable of something? Doesn't the general believer rant about how God can do anything, and nothing is impossible for him?

Here's how it works. Jesus took the punishment for the sins of some people on the cross. So he can justly heal and save them. These he restores to life through the new birth which produces faith. So all whom Jesus healed had faith, and were paid for on the cross. The rest were not. God would not be good if he saved sinners without first paying for their sins.

 

[JellyJam]

Here's how it works. Jesus took the punishment for the sins of some people on the cross. So he can justly heal and save them. These he restores to life through the new birth which produces faith. So all whom Jesus healed had faith, and were paid for on the cross. The rest were not. God would not be good if he saved sinners without first paying for their sins.

Let's talk about God okay. What is a God from your point of view?

 

[Dave L]

Let's talk about God okay. What is a God from your point of view?

God is the cause (creator) of everything.

 

[JellyJam]

God is the cause (creator) of everything.

Okay right, we are on the same page here. So what makes you think this creator of everything is Jesus?

I'll need some grounded facts here that demonstrate how he is.

 

[Dave L]

Okay right, we are on the same page here. So what makes you think this creator of everything is Jesus?

I'll need some grounded facts here that demonstrate how he is.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:1–3)

“The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14)

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;” (Mark 1:1)

 

[JellyJam]

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:1–3)

“The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14)

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;” (Mark 1:1)

Okay, although that doesn't describe anything that we observe about our known universe today.

 

[Dave L]

Okay, although that doesn't describe anything that we observe about our known universe today.

Something causes it to exist and move. I know him personally.

 

[JellyJam]

Something causes it to exist and move. I know him personally.

Of course it did, that's a fact. But you're not really helping me connect the dots here. If it's impossible to tie Jesus to actual real processes, those that he explains and then can be verified as real universal principles.
I just don't see why I would accept he was the creator of this universe. I say this because the creator would know how everything functions.

 

[Dave L]

Of course it did, that's a fact. But you're not really helping me connect the dots here. If it's impossible to tie Jesus to actual real processes, those that he explains and then can be verified as real universal principles.
I just don't see why I would accept he was the creator of this universe. I say this because the creator would know how everything functions.

I already provided scripture linking Jesus as the creator. But it is a matter of faith only those whom he saves can grasp.

 

[JellyJam]

I already provided scripture linking Jesus as the creator. But it is a matter of faith only those whom he saves can grasp.

Okay fair, fair, enough said

 

[Deborah_]

Here it is mentioned that Jesus (Who is the almighty) couldn't seem to release his power due to a faith mix up.

Mark 6:5 5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.

I've always questioned this verse, that I can't understand how Jesus power was prevented working in this way. It is a recurring theme in the new testament, that Jesus needed faith from other's for his power to actually work.

I started thinking of how this would work in a real life situation, with a physician today.

Let's say I had cancer, but there was an experimental new drug on the market that was promising.

I decided to take the treatment from my local GP, but before he gave me the medication, he said.

"You must have faith in these pills first, for them to actually work"

The connection here to Jesus healing power is, am I really expected to believe in the medication I need for my cancer first? If the medication can cure me, it can cure me.

Simple.

"If the medication can cure me, it can cure me." You would think so, but it isn't quite as simple as that. As a doctor, I was taught about the "placebo effect" - which is, basically, that what you believe about your treatment actually does affect your body's response to it. People who are convinced that their medication will give them lots of side-effects do actually get more side-effects that the people who are more optimistic. And every proper clinical trial includes a placebo, because there are always some people whose symptoms will improve when they take dummy pills if they believe that those pills are the real thing.

I don't think that's what was happening at Nazareth, though. The point here is that God's power isn't impersonal - it's not like plugging into the electricity supply that works for everyone so long as you have a good connection. The people who had grown up with Jesus couldn't bring themselves to accept that He was someone special - someone they should hand over their lives to. And how can He heal you if you won't place yourself in His hands? It's like expecting a surgeon to operate on you without cutting you open. However good he/she is, they can do nothing if you don't let them.

 

[Dave L]

"If the medication can cure me, it can cure me." You would think so, but it isn't quite as simple as that. As a doctor, I was taught about the "placebo effect" - which is, basically, that what you believe about your treatment actually does affect your body's response to it. People who are convinced that their medication will give them lots of side-effects do actually get more side-effects that the people who are more optimistic. And every proper clinical trial includes a placebo, because there are always some people whose symptoms will improve when they take dummy pills if they believe that those pills are the real thing.

I don't think that's what was happening at Nazareth, though. The point here is that God's power isn't impersonal - it's not like plugging into the electricity supply that works for everyone so long as you have a good connection. The people who had grown up with Jesus couldn't bring themselves to accept that He was someone special - someone they should hand over their lives to. And how can He heal you if you won't place yourself in His hands? It's like expecting a surgeon to operate on you without cutting you open. However good he/she is, they can do nothing if you don't let them.

I wonder how much "faith healing" is of a psychosomatic nature?

 

[Deborah_]

I wonder how much "faith healing" is of a psychosomatic nature?

I suspect that an awful lot of so-called "faith healing" (the kind that happens at "healing services") is psychosomatic. There are a few cases that are genuine (I've come across one or two), but they get far less publicity.