Mystery Babylon-Understanding the imagery

[Lady Crosstalk]

Never the less, you will remember what I have said.
Luke 17
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Rom. 8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Apparently, you know how to cut and paste Scripture but I fail to see why you think you have made some earth-shattering statement to me. I can and do read the Bible every day. I have known both of your quoted passages well for many years. Why should I remember what you have said over my own reading of the Bible? Did you mean to imply something? You have not provided a compelling reason why I should entertain any more of your posts. Good bye.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Can't you just feel the conditional love?
Sing it with me,

"When we aaalll
get to heaven..."

What is your purpose in saying that, bbyrd? Do you really expect that you will get a good reception with Christians when you mock and belittle them? You are obsessed with a couple of lines of Scripture--about which you expect others to do what? I have explained both passages in the context of the whole gospel. I have also cautioned you about making a theology out of one or two lines of Scripture. You must read the Bible without preconceived judgments, if you wish to arrive at the truth. In any case, taking pot-shots at Christians is supposed to do what in furthering what goal?

 

[bbyrd009]

What is your purpose in saying that, bbyrd? Do you really expect that you will get a good reception with Christians when you mock and belittle them? You are obsessed with a couple of lines of Scripture--about which you expect others to do what? I have explained both passages in the context of the whole gospel. I have also cautioned you about making a theology out of one or two lines of Scripture. You must read the Bible without preconceived judgments, if you wish to arrive at the truth. In any case, taking pot-shots at Christians is supposed to do what in furthering what goal?

Well if you are feeling attacked I apologize, ok. I wish you the best of luck in your quest to become immortal, you and any other believers who feel that way, and I mean that sincerely. Thank you for the explaining and cautioning too, Im sure you are doing that with good intentions. You don't have to explain your interp of those vv to me, or anyone else imo. On the preconceived thing, fwiw I believed pretty much exactly like you for most of my life tho ok.

 

[bbyrd009]

My mom and sister both literally plug their ears and go LALALALA whenever they hear any challenge of the possibility of themselves going up to heaven after they have died, to become immortals, and tho they are Codependent they are two of the nicest ppl you could ever meet. As long as you let them be in charge.

I'm writing this bc they just recently got a new pastor--well, found a new congregation--who is really a great guy, 501 c3 and all, and I made the mistake of agreeing to a meeting with him and them that I should not have been involved in, and the Spirit even disquieted me over beforehand.

But Codependent ppl can be hard to disagree with, and so I agreed. Unfortunately the meeting did not turn out like they had hoped I guess, and I'm afraid now that I have put them off their next Right Pastor. I say this, but they wanted the meeting to discuss (discredit, I guess) the possibility that they were actually Mithraists, and this was after the couple years of the LALALALA stuff, so I dunno.

They are still going to the congregation though, all that happened this past Christmas. But the point I meant to make is that this is not "salvational" to me in the same way that it is to them, due to our diff in defs of Eternal I guess? So if I had it to do over again I would sure do it differently, or not do it at all even, which I'm not even sure how I could do that bc they are both in hell, too, but I guess that's no reason for me to go to hell to try and like what save them if they don't want, you can't tell ppl what to believe, and I never meant to even try

So what I'm saying to anyone who has awakened to life, more abundantly is don't go trying to convert any Believers that you have to live with, if you know what's good for you. Let them get the flu shots and get puking sick, while you eat the garlic and thrive, and I swear to God when they ask you why do not tell them, at least right away. Make them beg for it imo, or maybe better yet just play ignorant and say you don't know

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Well if you are feeling attacked I apologize, ok. I wish you the best of luck in your quest to become immortal, you and any other believers who feel that way, and I mean that sincerely. Thank you for the explaining and cautioning too, Im sure you are doing that with good intentions. You don't have to explain your interp of those vv to me, or anyone else imo. On the preconceived thing, fwiw I believed pretty much exactly like you for most of my life tho ok.

I didn't feel particularly "attacked" bbyrd--just wondering why the hostility toward other Christians? Jesus said that His followers would be with Him "always". Since He is immortal, I don't understand why you doubt that we will be too. The Bible tells us that He is the "first of many brothers and sisters". Why did you stop believing the teachings of orthodoxy or did you?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

"...the possibility that they were actually Mithraists."

Atheist (and worse) websites often compare the Christian faith with "Mithraism" but any similarities are quite superficial. The teachings of Mithraism changed drastically after the advent of Christianity. What began as a secret cult (a "mystery religion") and was teamed with various other Hindu and Persian "gods," became much more like the teachings of the Christian faith in the first few centuries after the advent of Christ. It was done in the second century A.D., in order to try to keep cult members from going over to the Christian faith. Mithraism actually copied Christianity, not vice versa. Paganism is like that--they have little regard for the truth. They care much more about what is popular so that the cult leaders can prosper. There are many Christian websites which study the false charge that Christianity copied Mithraism. Here is one of them which begins with the assertion from someone who is losing faith in the exclusive nature of Christianity, followed by the proper response from a Christian perspective:

Did Christianity Steal From Mithraism?

The bottom line is--please don't listen to liars, bbyrd. Satan has always been a liar and he will tell any lie, no matter how outrageous, to try to keep humans from believing the truth.

They are still going to the congregation though, all that happened this past Christmas. But the point I meant to make is that this is not "salvational" to me in the same way that it is to them, due to our diff in defs of Eternal I guess? So if I had it to do over again I would sure do it differently, or not do it at all even, which I'm not even sure how I could do that bc they are both in hell, too, but I guess that's no reason for me to go to hell to try and like what save them if they don't want, you can't tell ppl what to believe, and I never meant to even try

So what I'm saying to anyone who has awakened to life, more abundantly is don't go trying to convert any Believers that you have to live with, if you know what's good for you. Let them get the flu shots and get puking sick, while you eat the garlic and thrive, and I swear to God when they ask you why do not tell them, at least right away. Make them beg for it imo, or maybe better yet just play ignorant and say you don't know

There is much wrong in churches today. Many congregations are led by "hirelings" if you know what I mean by that. Some are becoming cult-like as well, in order that the leaders would prosper (look at all the mega church scandals). The truth is still there in the Bible but many congregations have only retained part of the truth of the Bible and a partial truth is not really truth. I see that Andy Stanley (the mega church pastor who heads huge and powerful North Point church in Atlanta) has said that he thinks that Christians should not read and study the Old Testament! That is a teaching right out of hell--a "doctrine of demons". The understanding of God's work among His people Israel is vital to the foundation of the Christian faith. Like any pagan priest, Stanley is apparently going, not for what is true, but for what is popular (the Old Testament has been growing in unpopularity among "christians" for some time).

I suspect that we are in the final "gleaning" stage of God's harvest of souls from among the Gentiles. This should not surprise true Christians. We know that this "age of grace" has an "expiry date" as all of the ages of mortal man have had. The names of the Patriarchs, listed in Genesis 5, have always been there to inform us of God's plan for mortal man.

The Apostle Paul said, in the Book of Romans, that God has not forgotten His people, Israel. He said, once the "full number of Gentiles" has come in (Romans 11:25), that God would turn His attention to Israel. This is seen in the Book of Ezekiel--that God would initially begin a work in the Beautiful Land with unbelieving, ethnic Jews who appear as skeletons at first (the "dry bones" prophecy of Ezekiel 37). But then, He will put sinews and skin on them, ultimately, breathing life into them, by His Holy Spirit. The "lost" Tribes of Israel will come to faith in their Messiah and begin to unite with Judah in the Land, as they become the one people of Israel again.

The "times of the Gentiles" is closing and we are seeing the disintegration of the visible churches. This is the likely "falling away" before the "departure" of the true Church--the Bride. Interestingly, the language of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 can be taken both ways as "apostasy" (a "falling away" from the truth) and "departure" (of the true Church in the Rapture). Blessings to you bbyrd, as you seek the truth.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ok ty, best of luck on your immanent departure I guess. Keep looking up!

I didn't feel particularly "attacked" bbyrd--just wondering why the hostility toward other Christians? Jesus said that His followers would be with Him "always". Since He is immortal, I don't understand why you doubt that we will be too. The Bible tells us that He is the "first of many brothers and sisters". Why did you stop believing the teachings of orthodoxy or did you?

Jesus is not the One Immortal, sorry. This might be realized any number of ways, obv an Immortal would not be asking Abba for more time, or there are other perspectives to perceive this from, but wadr the one here reading the Bible with preconceived notions is not me, and the lesson cannot be heard by anyone who holds the preconceived notion of becoming an Immortal or going up to heaven after they have died I guess

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm remembering now that finding the diff in Jesus and Christ was helpful, and also finding where you are to become Elohim too. But these are often not comfortable subjects for Christian Mithraists either, especially if they are first taught that Jesus is God. Was Jesus God? Yes. And no. And that is not an easy lesson to learn I guess, that you have to keep both perspectives, but it shouldn't be too hard to read the forum arguments for both, or even find Scripture for both.

Note where "and they worshipped Him" does not offer any commentary on the "worship" whatsoever, allowing you to draw your own conclusions. But you can find "Two Greeks who came to worship Him...and He 'hid from' them." So imo do yourself a favor, and when you get told insistently that Jesus is God ask that one about their experience breaking up Nehushtan, and when they start shuffling the cards like you see here, be advised I guess

I'm not going to be posting in any threads where the preconceived notion is obviously "Saved = Immortal" any more, at least for the time being, but I do wish you guys the best in your walk. I apparently need some work on my pride and my Standing There myself, maybe then? :)

 

[marks]

the point is to understand how to interact with them in daily life in such a way that there is no loser in the transaction, which requires a little trick usually, bc they are bent upon winning at any cost.

That's a good working description in my mind of how to go about a forum like this one.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

That's a good working description in my mind of how to go about a forum like this one.

Much love!

Well, I go back and forth on that for a couple reasons, mostly bc the dynamic is diff in a forum, multiple readers, and irl I'm talking about essentially not speaking at all, or at most speaking in terms that they will not hear right, and only then bc you have to live with them.

I'm uncomfortable in the extreme having to entirely relinquish this forum to Mithraists--and even moreso to Determinists of any stripe, tbh--but I guess division and strife equate to more clicks, and running a site is not cheap. Kudos to the owners for even allowing me to post here, it's been great! And surely it will be again :)

 

[marks]

Well, I go back and forth on that for a couple reasons, mostly bc the dynamic is diff in a forum, multiple readers, and irl I'm talking about essentially not speaking at all, or at most speaking in terms that they will not hear right, and only then bc you have to live with them.

I'm uncomfortable in the extreme having to entirely relinquish this forum to Mithraists--and even moreso to Determinists of any stripe, tbh--but I guess division and strife equate to more clicks, and running a site is not cheap. Kudos to the owners for even allowing me to post here, it's been great! And surely it will be again :)

Isn't it sad? This is my real life!

Yes, strife leads to clicks, and revenue. Same with Likes, reward points, all that stuff. But we use it to profit I hope.

I love how the conversations interweave and sometimes run parallel in the same thread, and yes, it's very different for face to face interpersonal interaction.

Should you relinquish this forum, I don't see it as relinquishing it to others, but for God to continue whatever He may be doing, and do we know what that is?

BTW . . . I find you to be an interesting person, and I'm still hoping to get to know you, and your ideas, better.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, strife leads to clicks, and revenue. Same with Likes, reward points, all that stuff. But we use it to profit I hope.

ha I guess "we" pretty much make a bell-curve there, like everywhere else? But this is the first forum that has allowed an attack of Death, More Abundantly, fwiw. If you want to be like a god make a spike i guess um, spear, ya. stake.

and yes, it's very different for face to face interpersonal interaction.

im here to talk about that, not do it, ya. That is a much more productive discussion than sword fighting beliefs imo. Tell me about your beliefs and your love, and I am going to quiz you about your islamophobia lol

Should you relinquish this forum, I don't see it as relinquishing it to others, but for God to continue whatever He may be doing, and do we know what that is?

this got the "like" :)

 

[marks]

@bbyrd009

I do tend to use inclusive language, a habit that doesn't always fit the moment I'm afraid.

You know, you invited me to google "death more abundantly" to learn more, and I did, but the only thing I found that seemed at all like the way you talk was you on another forum.

Tell me about your beliefs and your love, and I am going to quiz you about your islamophobia lol

But I'm not afraid of Islam.

:)

 

[bbyrd009]

I do tend to use inclusive language, a habit that doesn't always fit the moment I'm afraid.

oh really I was presuming upon a valid assumption to make another point I guess; for whatever reason undefined "we" suddenly came up a coupla months ago, here, and hasn't gone away yet lol

You know, you invited me to google "death more abundantly" to learn more, and I did, but the only thing I found that seemed at all like the way you talk was you on another forum

I'm the first hit? Really? i thought i (quite vainly) went to track that down and found precedents, hmm. brb maybe tomorrow now going for lobster on Narragansett Bay apparently woo-hoo!

 

[bbyrd009]

Redemption Redeemed: A Puritan Defense of Unlimited Atonement
https://books.google.com › books
John Goodwin, John D. Wagner · 2004 · Religion
... of their condemnation, not upon the advance of their salvation; and Christ himself should come unto them, not that they “might have life more abundantly,” but that they might have hell and death more abundantly.

 

[marks]

Redemption Redeemed: A Puritan Defense of Unlimited Atonement
https://books.google.com › books
John Goodwin, John D. Wagner · 2004 · Religion
... of their condemnation, not upon the advance of their salvation; and Christ himself should come unto them, not that they “might have life more abundantly,” but that they might have hell and death more abundantly.

Thank you for the link! I read about for a number of pages, I'll probably go back for more, it's good smart reading.

There's the question of God rescinding His grace to the egregious sinner who is saved (?), aside from that, this whole idea that to sanctify a man externally without sanctifying him internally, that is, spiritually, would be, in Jesus' words, to make them twice the son of hell. Or Jesus' description, whitewashed tombs. And if one is a whitewashed tomb, and they don't see inside, they only see the outside, then they are just fine in their eyes. Though dead, and now immunized against repentance.

After you're done enjoying your lobster . . . am I on the same page here?

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Thank you for the link! I read about for a number of pages, I'll probably go back for more, it's good smart reading.

There's the question of God rescinding His grace to the egregious sinner who is saved (?), aside from that, this whole idea that to sanctify a man externally without sanctifying him internally, that is, spiritually, would be, in Jesus' words, to make them twice the son of hell. Or Jesus' description, whitewashed tombs. And if one is a whitewashed tomb, and they don't see inside, they only see the outside, then they are just fine in their eyes. Though dead, and now immunized against repentance.

After you're done enjoying your lobster . . . am I on the same page here?

Much love!

I've never read any of them actually, wouldn't surprise me if their def of DMA is diff from mine. To me that means the belief that going up to heaven might literally be attained in some "tomorrow" scenario, either rapture or literal death, bodily death either way, hence dma.

The dma you outlined manifests at least usually in the assumption that one might go up to heaven after death too tho imo, wouldn't be too hard to make that connection after "washing the outside" yeh, but I'm guessing that link is prolly not going to go that far, based upon the use of "saved" there? Iow that guy still believes he might go up to heaven after literal death, and become an immortal? So great idea of a symptom anyway, yeh, a good diff page. Who "washes the outside of the cup," after all

 

[Soverign Grace]

Atheist (and worse) websites often compare the Christian faith with "Mithraism" but any similarities are quite superficial. The teachings of Mithraism changed drastically after the advent of Christianity. What began as a secret cult (a "mystery religion") and was teamed with various other Hindu and Persian "gods," became much more like the teachings of the Christian faith in the first few centuries after the advent of Christ. It was done in the second century A.D., in order to try to keep cult members from going over to the Christian faith. Mithraism actually copied Christianity, not vice versa. Paganism is like that--they have little regard for the truth. They care much more about what is popular so that the cult leaders can prosper. There are many Christian websites which study the false charge that Christianity copied Mithraism. Here is one of them which begins with the assertion from someone who is losing faith in the exclusive nature of Christianity, followed by the proper response from a Christian perspective:

Did Christianity Steal From Mithraism?

The bottom line is--please don't listen to liars, bbyrd. Satan has always been a liar and he will tell any lie, no matter how outrageous, to try to keep humans from believing the truth.



There is much wrong in churches today. Many congregations are led by "hirelings" if you know what I mean by that. Some are becoming cult-like as well, in order that the leaders would prosper (look at all the mega church scandals). The truth is still there in the Bible but many congregations have only retained part of the truth of the Bible and a partial truth is not really truth. I see that Andy Stanley (the mega church pastor who heads huge and powerful North Point church in Atlanta) has said that he thinks that Christians should not read and study the Old Testament! That is a teaching right out of hell--a "doctrine of demons". The understanding of God's work among His people Israel is vital to the foundation of the Christian faith. Like any pagan priest, Stanley is apparently going, not for what is true, but for what is popular (the Old Testament has been growing in unpopularity among "christians" for some time).

I suspect that we are in the final "gleaning" stage of God's harvest of souls from among the Gentiles. This should not surprise true Christians. We know that this "age of grace" has an "expiry date" as all of the ages of mortal man have had. The names of the Patriarchs, listed in Genesis 5, have always been there to inform us of God's plan for mortal man.

The Apostle Paul said, in the Book of Romans, that God has not forgotten His people, Israel. He said, once the "full number of Gentiles" has come in (Romans 11:25), that God would turn His attention to Israel. This is seen in the Book of Ezekiel--that God would initially begin a work in the Beautiful Land with unbelieving, ethnic Jews who appear as skeletons at first (the "dry bones" prophecy of Ezekiel 37). But then, He will put sinews and skin on them, ultimately, breathing life into them, by His Holy Spirit. The "lost" Tribes of Israel will come to faith in their Messiah and begin to unite with Judah in the Land, as they become the one people of Israel again.

The "times of the Gentiles" is closing and we are seeing the disintegration of the visible churches. This is the likely "falling away" before the "departure" of the true Church--the Bride. Interestingly, the language of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 can be taken both ways as "apostasy" (a "falling away" from the truth) and "departure" (of the true Church in the Rapture). Blessings to you bbyrd, as you seek the truth.

That's shocking about Andy Stanley - did he give a reason for advising people not to read the OT? Charles Stanley was one of my favorite preachers. It's very obvious that religion has fallen by the wayside, with the "new religion" being me, me me! Taking selfies and posting them on FakeBook, Instagram, and other mindless sites. So I think there is a definite "falling away." A Christian who spends a long time alone with their bible can see some of the heretical teachings being espoused today, such as Joel Osteen.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I don't know about Coreissue, but I know RCs who are saved--and many of them are getting pretty restless under the regime set up under Vatican II. There are even those who are pressing to cut ties with Rome. I posted a link to one such website.

I hope so. As a former Catholic I'm appalled at what happened to the Catholic church - the molestations, now these Popes being direct Satanists. Brakelite shared a video by Walter Veith that showed that the Pope's vestments have the same symbols as Islam. So the Vatican is allegedly the very creator of Islam. I don't know what they're doing yet; what their purpose is for creating Islam but it's is being spread worldwide. In America they're building many large mosques. Of course this makes people uneasy since they're "bible" teaches them to rape and kill infidels. I had a middle easterner approach me while out and put his hands on me and say something he shouldn't. That was when I saw how dangerous immigration became - they have no respect for women. In fact, in Germany they're so accommodating that the opened "animal brothels." In the bible that's called bestiality. That is just sick - and the poor animals - Satan is spreading such sick things. Every time I read the news now I pray and ask God to end it already. We've exceeded Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[marks]

A Christian who spends a long time alone with their bible

Now there's the way to go!

Much love!