GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT

[Butterfly]

I think you will find it is old men who will dream dreams. Which is good because you don't need a lot of energy to dream dreams when you are old.

Yes, I did go to post the actual post in Joel, and the context in which it was quoted in acts - but then I thought ' why bother ' it will just spark of another discussion about who is right and who is wrong, so. I deleted it !! Lol
It's not the energy that would be a problem, it would be whether or not you can remember it !! Lol

 

[amadeus]

Whether we like it or not, we have all been indoctrinated one way or another. What we believe is determined by the indoctrination.

Our basic beliefs (indoctrination) should not change but the rest should be changing all the time as we grow in the Lord for the simple reason we don't feed a baby solid food, we feed them milk. As we grow in the faith we go on to solid food and then meat.

Sad to say, in many churches the leader is not growing so the congregation doesn't grow. They thrive and survive on the status quo. They do the same thing every week and hope for a different outcome. it ain't going to happen.

This is why people sometimes look back to when they were first "saved" as something better than what is happening now. In the beginning they received the gift of the Holy Ghost with little or no knowledge. As they gained knowledge through study and through the sermons of men [eating the flesh of Jesus] but did not also stir up and increase in the Holy Spirit [drinking the blood of Jesus] they apparently stood still... but actually moved backwards toward what they were before they met the Master. Staying on milk alone may be good for a baby, but babies need to grow. Jesus put it like this:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:53-54

When people regularly quench the Holy Spirit, they starve the "new man" no matter how well they know the written scriptures. Quenching the Spirit is regularly practiced and taught in church settings although is seldom called that. They defined it with their preset program instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to lead them according to the program that God would supply if He were allowed to do so:

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

 

[Pearl]

I am glad you said this Pearl. I was living in the UK when the charismatic renewal broke out in the 60s. People were speaking in tongues all over the place in all sorts of denominations.

Of course, to a lot of people, this was all new because they had not been exposed to Pentecostalism so they were very excited about it all.

Sad to say that people that were not experiencing this usually said: "I suppose you think you're better than us?" Which of course they didn't. I mean you can't give people a new car and expect them to keep quiet about it, can you?

Well people may think they are an elite group but they really aren't. Even apostles, pastors, prophets, teachers and evangelists are not elite in God's eyes, they just have different ministries from the musicians, or brew team, or cleaning team, or projectionists and tech team. We are all part of the Body.

 

[marksman]

Well people may think they are an elite group but they really aren't. Even apostles, pastors, prophets, teachers and evangelists are not elite in God's eyes, they just have different ministries from the musicians, or brew team, or cleaning team, or projectionists and tech team. We are all part of the Body.

Yes, that is true but sad to say the people that lead and do the preaching often think they are better than those who provide the refreshments. I judge a person not by his position by his humility.

 

[marksman]

When people regularly quench the Holy Spirit, they starve the "new man" no matter how well they know the written scriptures. Quenching the Spirit is regularly practiced and taught in church settings although is seldom called that. They defined it with their preset program instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to lead them according to the program that God would supply if He were allowed to do so:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

This is a standout Amadeus.

 

[marksman]

And that is why the understanding of the spiritual gifts gets skewed. We must look at all the gifts and see how many are neglected and how important they are. When some people speak about gifts, all they think of is tongues and healings.

That may be the case, but not with me as I am addressing all nine.

 

[marksman]

1Co 12:3 Now I want you to know that if you are led by God's Spirit, you will say that Jesus is Lord, and you will never curse Jesus.

There is a lot of comment generally as to what is authentic in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit, so I would like to suggest that Paul in verse three gives us the answer. When I have doubts about a gift being exercised, my modus operandi is to ask the person if Jesus Christ is Lord.

If they say he is, then he or she is genuine because only a person who is led by the Spirit of God can say that.

I believe that Paul started with that to give us a clear indication of the validity of the use of any of the gifts.

 

[marksman]

1Co 12:4 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but they all come from the same Spirit.

Whatever gift (charisma) we are talking about, they all have the same source. The Holy Spirit. The word Spirit is pneuma which means a current of air. You will note that on the day of Pentecost it says in Acts 2:2 there was a sound from heaven (Greek echoes, a loud or confused noise) as of a rushing mighty wind (please note there was no wind, only the sound of it,) and it filled all the house(Oikos) where they were sitting.

We do ourselves a disservice if we are not prepared for the sound of a rushing mighty wind if the gifts are in operation.

If, by any chance, the room is filled with the sound of a rushing mighty wind, do not be surprised if you end up on your backside as when the Holy Spirit is present, IT IS POWERFUL. Do not despise this fact. I have been involved in meetings where whether I wanted people to fall under the power of Spirit or not I had no choice because it happened without my intervention or assistance.

Instead of worrying about what is right and wrong, we should focus more on what is happening by the Spirit and what he is telling us to do. Do as you're told and anything can happen.

 

[marksman]

Yes, I did go to post the actual post in Joel, and the context in which it was quoted in acts - but then I thought ' why bother ' it will just spark of another discussion about who is right and who is wrong, so. I deleted it !! Lol
It's not the energy that would be a problem, it would be whether or not you can remember it !! Lol

In my case, I think that it is both

 

[Pearl]

Yes, that is true but sad to say the people that lead and do the preaching often think they are better than those who provide the refreshments. I judge a person not by his position by his humility.

Absolutely. In my church a stranger wouldn't we able to tell who the leader was and he doesn't have a title or any sort. He is just the leader. Anybody can bring a word, anybody can preach or start a song. It's not perfect but it's good.

 

[Pearl]

1Co 12:4 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but they all come from the same Spirit.

Whatever gift (charisma) we are talking about, they all have the same source. The Holy Spirit. The word Spirit is pneuma which means a current of air. You will note that on the day of Pentecost it says in Acts 2:2 there was a sound from heaven (Greek echoes, a loud or confused noise) as of a rushing mighty wind (please note there was no wind, only the sound of it,) and it filled all the house(Oikos) where they were sitting.

We do ourselves a disservice if we are not prepared for the sound of a rushing mighty wid if the gifts are in operation.

If, by any chance, the room is filled with the sound of a rushing mighty wind, do not be surprised if you end up on your backside as when the Holy Spirit is present, IT IS POWERFUL. Do not despise this fact. I have been involved in meetings where whether I wanted people to fall under the power of Spirit or not I had no choice because it happened without my intervention or assistance.

Instead of worrying about what is right and wrong, we should focus more on what is happening by the Spirit and what he is telling us to do. Do as you're told and anything can happen.

1Co 12:3 Now I want you to know that if you are led by God's Spirit, you will say that Jesus is Lord, and you will never curse Jesus.

There is a lot of comment generally as to what is authentic in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit, so I would like to suggest that Paul in verse three gives us the answer. When I have doubts about a gift being exercised, my modus operandi is to ask the person if Jesus Christ is Lord.

If they say he is, then he or she is genuine because only a person who is led by the Spirit of God can say that.

I believe that Paul started with that to give us a clear indication of the validity of the use of any of the gifts.

Paul says he spoke in tongues more than anybody and wow, look at his ministry.

 

[Pearl]

Martin Lloyd-Jones said: “It is perfectly clear that in New Testament times, the gospel was authenticated in this way by signs, wonders and miracles of various characters and descriptions. . . . Was it only meant to be true of the early church? . . . The Scriptures never anywhere say that these things were only temporary — never! There is no such statement anywhere.”

And Jesus said, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” Matthew 16:15-19

If it is right for us to preach the gospel to all creation then it is still right for us to speak in tongues.

 

[Enoch111]

The Scriptures never anywhere say that these things were only temporary — never! There is no such statement anywhere.”

Miracles, signs, wonders, and mighty deeds are called "the signs of an apostle". That IMPLIES that they were temporary. Why do Christians always want EXPLICIT statements about everything? There are no miracle workers within Christian churches today. If you know of any, tell us exactly what they have done with specific details.

 

[Pearl]

Miracles, signs, wonders, and mighty deeds are called "the signs of an apostle". That IMPLIES that they were temporary. Why do Christians always want EXPLICIT statements about everything? There are no miracle workers within Christian churches today. If you know of any, tell us exactly what they have done with specific details.

But there are still apostles today. Or didn't you know that.

 

[marksman]

Miracles, signs, wonders, and mighty deeds are called "the signs of an apostle". That IMPLIES that they were temporary. Why do Christians always want EXPLICIT statements about everything? There are no miracle workers within Christian churches today. If you know of any, tell us exactly what they have done with specific details.

One of the young men in our church took his friend to a Bill Wilson meeting. His friend only had one hand. Bill called people forward for prayer and the young man and his friend went forward.

As Bill was praying and they were standing there, he saw his friend grow a second hand and he didn't get it from the second hand shop.

And where are they called a sign of an apostle?

 

[marksman]

Absolutely. In my church a stranger wouldn't we able to tell who the leader was and he doesn't have a title or any sort. He is just the leader. Anybody can bring a word, anybody can preach or start a song. It's not perfect but it's good.

When I lived in Egland we attended the South Chard Christian Church which pioneered that open type ministry. The founder of the ministry who was about 5 foot nothing sat in the congregation never on a platform which we didn't have.

As I use to say, no platform, no pulpit, no programme, no preacher.

 

[Pearl]

One of the young men in our church took his friend to a Bill Wilson meeting. His friend only had one hand. Bill called people forward for prayer and the young man and his friend went forward.

As Bill was praying and they were standing there, he saw his friend grow a second hand and he didn't get it from the second hand shop.

And where are they called a sign of an apostle?

Amazing.

 

[Enoch111]

And where are they called a sign of an apostle?

2 CORINTHIANS 12
11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
13 For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.

HEBREWS 2
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

 

[farouk]

But there are still apostles today. Or didn't you know that.

Was not aware of this...

What we do have is the apostolic 'faith once delivered to the saints' (Jude).

 

[marks]

Me neither Mark - but I believe it to be one of the gifts.
Rita

My wife speaks in tongues. I've rarely heard her, it's her prayer languague.

Much love!