GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT

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Pearl

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Was not aware of this...

What we do have is the apostolic 'faith once delivered to the saints' (Jude).
People do still have apostolic ministries to plant churches. I heard yesterday that in Asia there are ten churches a month being planted (I think it was a month but could have been a week) and that there are 400 missionaries in that part of the world. And that was told to us by a Christian lady who had been working out in Nepal with her husband.
 

farouk

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People do still have apostolic ministries to plant churches. I heard yesterday that in Asia there are ten churches a month being planted (I think it was a month but could have been a week) and that there are 400 missionaries in that part of the world. And that was told to us by a Christian lady who had been working out in Nepal with her husband.
I wouldn't call it apostolic in the primary sense of the word, though...It's the apostolic faith, certainly.
 

Pearl

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I wouldn't call it apostolic in the primary sense of the word, though...It's the apostolic faith, certainly.
Perhaps farouk but I've been taught differently. The bible say Junia was an apostle; some sources say Junia was a woman but that's not the issue here, what's important though is that Junia was not one of the original twelve. Neither were Paul or Matthias yet both were appointed as apostles.
 
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farouk

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Perhaps farouk but I've been taught differently. The bible say Junia was an apostle; some sources say Junia was a woman but that's not the issue here, what's important though is that Junia was not one of the original twelve. Neither were Paul or Matthias yet both were appointed as apostles.
The Scriptures are now complete; this is a very important part of the matter.
 

Pearl

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The Scriptures are now complete; this is a very important part of the matter.
I agree that the words in the bible are indisputably God's written word but I also believe that he is still speaking to people today. People are still writing down the words he speaks to them. People are still having encounters with the living Christ. People are still prophesying, evangelising and planting churches. We have a living God who was and is and will be the same forever. God is still working, he is still calling people so why wouldn't he still be calling people to an apostolic ministry in the same way he is stilling calling people to prophesy, teach, preach, pastor and evangelise. The church is a living, growing body and I have known a few men with an apostolic ministry as well as all the others. But obviously you must deny that in the same way that you deny the power of speaking in tongues.
 

marks

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Perhaps farouk but I've been taught differently. The bible say Junia was an apostle; some sources say Junia was a woman but that's not the issue here, what's important though is that Junia was not one of the original twelve. Neither were Paul or Matthias yet both were appointed as apostles.

Hi Pearl,

You used the right word for today, missionaries, and they are all over the world.

Much love!
 
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marksman

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2 CORINTHIANS 12
11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
13 For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.

HEBREWS 2
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

As they are happening today, we must have apostles amongst us.

Hebrews 2 says nothing about apostles.
 

marksman

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Miracles, signs, wonders, and mighty deeds are called "the signs of an apostle". That IMPLIES that they were temporary. Why do Christians always want EXPLICIT statements about everything? There are no miracle workers within Christian churches today. If you know of any, tell us exactly what they have done with specific details.

Or just maybe there are apostles today. I never understand when God gives something through the risen ascended Jesus as in Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers, they are all removed except the pastor and he is expected to do the other four as well. To me, that is complete and utter baloney and one of the reasons why on average 6,000 pastors a month resign.
 

Pearl

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Or just maybe there are apostles today. I never understand when God gives something through the risen ascended Jesus as in Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers, they are all removed except the pastor and he is expected to do the other four as well. To me, that is complete and utter baloney and one of the reasons why on average 6,000 pastors a month resign.
As well as Matthias who was chosen to replace Judas to make up the twelve, Paul was also an apostle but not of the twelve and also Romans 16:7 mentions two more apostles - Andronicus and Junia. So does that not set a precedent?

And 1 Corinthians 12:28 says, "And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues." So to me 'church' here is more than just those that were alive at that time. Church to me means all those who Jesus prayed for in John 17.

It's no wonder the Church doesn't seem to have a voice in much of the world today as it denies the fact that God is never changing and provides for the Church today, the Body of Christ, in just the same way he did in the early days. Why wouldn't he?
 
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marksman

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As well as Matthias who was chosen to replace Judas to make up the twelve, Paul was also an apostle but not of the twelve and also Romans 16:7 mentions two more apostles - Andronicus and Junia. So does that not set a precedent?

And 1 Corinthians 12:28 says, "And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues." So to me 'church' here is more than just those that were alive at that time. Church to me means all those who Jesus prayed for in John 17.

It's no wonder the Church doesn't seem to have a voice in much of the world today as it denies the fact that God is never changing and provides for the Church today, the Body of Christ, in just the same way he did in the early days. Why wouldn't he?

Yes Pearl, why wouldn't he? The only reason I can think of is the obtuse leaders who think they know more than God.
 

marksman

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As well as Matthias who was chosen to replace Judas to make up the twelve, Paul was also an apostle but not of the twelve and also Romans 16:7 mentions two more apostles - Andronicus and Junia. So does that not set a precedent?

And 1 Corinthians 12:28 says, "And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues." So to me 'church' here is more than just those that were alive at that time. Church to me means all those who Jesus prayed for in John 17.

It's no wonder the Church doesn't seem to have a voice in much of the world today as it denies the fact that God is never changing and provides for the Church today, the Body of Christ, in just the same way he did in the early days. Why wouldn't he?

Your post got me thinking about 1 Cor 12:28. I looked up the greek for "set" or "placed" and discovered that it means "to place in the widest application literally and figuratively, properly in a passive or horizontal position."

If someone is passive or horizontal they are not going anywhere soon. it suggests to me a permanent fixture. If that is what the Greek says, then those who contend apostles don't exist anymore have the job to prove it. If God was going to remove them I do not think for one moment that they would be described as being passive or horizontal.
 
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marksman

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I agree that the words in the bible are indisputably God's written word but I also believe that he is still speaking to people today. People are still writing down the words he speaks to them. People are still having encounters with the living Christ. People are still prophesying, evangelising and planting churches. We have a living God who was and is and will be the same forever. God is still working, he is still calling people so why wouldn't he still be calling people to an apostolic ministry in the same way he is stilling calling people to prophesy, teach, preach, pastor and evangelise. The church is a living, growing body and I have known a few men with an apostolic ministry as well as all the others. But obviously you must deny that in the same way that you deny the power of speaking in tongues.

People are still writing down the words he speaks to them.

Yes, what about the millions of Christian books out there? Just saying.
 
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marksman

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People do still have apostolic ministries to plant churches. I heard yesterday that in Asia there are ten churches a month being planted (I think it was a month but could have been a week) and that there are 400 missionaries in that part of the world. And that was told to us by a Christian lady who had been working out in Nepal with her husband.

Ed Silvoso said that the best way to evangelize is to plant a church. I notice that this is what happens in third world countries, but in the west, we get the new converts to an existing church.
 
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Pearl

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People are still writing down the words he speaks to them.

Yes, what about the millions of Christian books out there? Just saying.
I always think that when you go into a Christian bookshop it's like walking into the continuation of Acts.
 

Pearl

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Ed Silvoso said that the best way to evangelize is to plant a church. I notice that this is what happens in third world countries, but in the west, we get the new converts to an existing church.
The first twelve apostles were hand-picked by Jesus and then after his resurrection he also chose Paul. But then the other three that I mentioned must have been chosen either by the church or the other apostles with God's guidance and blessing. Apostles must be chosen and sent by God, nobody can come along and appoint themselves as an apostle. God must call them just as Jesus called the twelve.

I learned many years ago that there were modern day apostles. Perhaps not so much in the traditional churches but definitely as church planters in the breakaway churches particularly, who sought to follow the pattern of the church laid out in Acts 2:42-47.
 

Episkopos

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The first twelve apostles were hand-picked by Jesus and then after his resurrection he also chose Paul. But then the other three that I mentioned must have been chosen either by the church or the other apostles with God's guidance and blessing. Apostles must be chosen and sent by God, nobody can come along and appoint themselves as an apostle. God must call them just as Jesus called the twelve.

I learned many years ago that there were modern day apostles. Perhaps not so much in the traditional churches but definitely as church planters in the breakaway churches particularly, who sought to follow the pattern of the church laid out in Acts 2:42-47.


When I think of apostles in the modern sense I think of this statement by Jesus...

Mat. 9:38 Beseech the Lord of the harvest, therefore, that He might send out workmen into His harvest."

Now it doesn't say...that people might send out missionaries....no....it is God being beseeched for "sent ones"...or apostles.

Are we doing this?
 
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CoreIssue

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When I think of apostles in the modern sense I think of this statement by Jesus...

Mat. 9:38 Beseech the Lord of the harvest, therefore, that He might send out workmen into His harvest."

Now it doesn't say...that people might send out missionaries....no....it is God being beseeched for "sent ones"...or apostles.

Are we doing this?
The first twelve apostles were hand-picked by Jesus and then after his resurrection he also chose Paul. But then the other three that I mentioned must have been chosen either by the church or the other apostles with God's guidance and blessing. Apostles must be chosen and sent by God, nobody can come along and appoint themselves as an apostle. God must call them just as Jesus called the twelve.

I learned many years ago that there were modern day apostles. Perhaps not so much in the traditional churches but definitely as church planters in the breakaway churches particularly, who sought to follow the pattern of the church laid out in Acts 2:42-47.
God pick Paul and Matthias.

What other apostles are you talking about?

There are no apostles today. That role was unique to the beginning of the church.
 

CoreIssue

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People do still have apostolic ministries to plant churches. I heard yesterday that in Asia there are ten churches a month being planted (I think it was a month but could have been a week) and that there are 400 missionaries in that part of the world. And that was told to us by a Christian lady who had been working out in Nepal with her husband.
Missionaries are not apostles.

Sending out missionaries began with the apostles. They were called disciples, not apostles.

They did not operate with the authority of the apostles or the power of.

This is Pentecostals thinking.