Personal responsibility

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JellyJam

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Let me ask you Christian's a question.

You believe that Jesus has died for your sins, and therefore takes the burden of those sins off your shoulders. No matter how much you Christian's mess up this side of life, so long as you believe that Jesus died for you, you are absolved of the penalty of all your sins.

Please explain to me how this POV doesn't make you completely irresponsible, and prevents you from taking personal steps in changing your bad nature.

Because if you really believe some guy has taken the fall for you, your a complete coward. Okay, it's like this.

I do something real bad in life, and there is no way out for me but the chopping block. But I hatch a plan to get some other smuck to take the heat for me. So I go and setup my only daughter to take all responsibility, and then I sit back while her head goes to the block.

That's basically what you Christian's are telling me to believe, like it's so noble to let someone else pay for your stupidity.
 

Stranger

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This is a good example that I have found true over the years. Atheist's and agnostics, and unbelievers altogether, like to point out the sins of believers. We are just as guilty as they are, they say. And, they are right, we are. But what really irks them, is that we are forgiven and they are not.

(Rom. 4:5-8) "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

Stranger
 
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bbyrd009

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Let me ask you Christian's a question.

You believe that Jesus has died for your sins, and therefore takes the burden of those sins off your shoulders. No matter how much you Christian's mess up this side of life, so long as you believe that Jesus died for you, you are absolved of the penalty of all your sins.

Please explain to me how this POV doesn't make you completely irresponsible, and prevents you from taking personal steps in changing your bad nature.

Because if you really believe some guy has taken the fall for you, your a complete coward. Okay, it's like this.

I do something real bad in life, and there is no way out for me but the chopping block. But I hatch a plan to get some other smuck to take the heat for me. So I go and setup my only daughter to take all responsibility, and then I sit back while her head goes to the block.

That's basically what you Christian's are telling me to believe, like it's so noble to let someone else pay for your stupidity.
Word. Bible says the exact same thing to a one-eyed ish, too imo. I desire mercy, not sacrifice, No Son of Man may die for another's sins, on and on. Note the artful imo occlusion of Christ as our "father" there, in the father cant die for the son, the son cant die for the father. Iow even though "Jesus" (you, btw) is known as "Son" He is a Christian "father" so to speak? High Priest>priest iow.

so, i'm not really sure where you are @ on um respect for the Bible? But as we will be interacting more down here in the dungeon now, id be interested to know that if you would, ty. a pm if you prefer
 

JellyJam

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This is a good example that I have found true over the years. Atheist's and agnostics, and unbelievers altogether, like to point out the sins of believers. We are just as guilty as they are, they say. And, they are right, we are. But what really irks them, is that we are forgiven and they are not.

(Rom. 4:5-8) "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

Stranger
Tell me stranger, do you actually feel compelled to take right actions to correct wrong actions yourself, when you believe that only Jesus can take the fall for you. Since you can't actually take any right action without him.

Meaning: If you do something wrong, you can't fix it yourself, that your left with no option but to wait on someone else to motivate you in the right direction.

So, are Christian's really responsible for anything they do?
 
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JellyJam

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Word. Bible says the exact same thing to a one-eyed ish, too imo. I desire mercy, not sacrifice, No Son of Man may die for another's sins, on and on. Note the artful imo occlusion of Christ as our "father" there, in the father cant die for the son, the son cant die for the father. Iow even though "Jesus" (you, btw) is known as "Son" He is a Christian "father" so to speak? High Priest>priest iow.

so, i'm not really sure where you are @ on um respect for the Bible? But as we will be interacting more down here in the dungeon now, id be interested to know that if you would, ty. a pm if you prefer
Alrighty then, soon I will PM you.
 
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Stranger

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Tell me stranger, do you actually feel compelled to take right actions to correct wrong actions yourself, when you believe that only Jesus can take the fall for you. Since you can't actually take any right action without him.

Meaning: If you do something wrong, you can't fix it yourself, that your left with no option but to wait on someone else to motivate you in the right direction.

So, are Christian's really responsible for anything they do?

You were talking about sins against God. There is no remedy for you to correct or remove your sins against God.

Stranger
 

Vince

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This is a good example that I have found true over the years. Atheist's and agnostics, and unbelievers altogether, like to point out the sins of believers. We are just as guilty as they are, they say. And, they are right, we are. But what really irks them, is that we are forgiven and they are not.

(Rom. 4:5-8) "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

Stranger
What I have found to be true about Christians is that they claim to know the mind of an atheist or non believer. Always telling them what they think. This kind of comment shows that you have never really listened to an atheist and understood what they think because you know better because an ancient book says so. Well when an atheist hears this they know it is not true and it doe snot make your god appealing. And this is not what JellyJam was writing about anyway, he was not pointing out your sin he was asking a different question. So your response shows again you don't care to read what he actually said.

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. Proverbs 18:2
 

lforrest

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Please explain to me how this POV doesn't make you completely irresponsible

Romans 8:9 "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ."​

So there is a standard, and it is obedience to the Holy Spirit. Christians do not have a license to sin. And they suffer the consequences of their sins in this life like anyone else btw.

I do something real bad in life, and there is no way out for me but the chopping block. But I hatch a plan to get some other smuck to take the heat for me. So I go and setup my only daughter to take all responsibility, and then I sit back while her head goes to the block.

Reverse that situation with your daughter facing the block, would you take her place?
God loves us, and anyone that makes it also loves God. Jesus has made a way for us to return to God's presence. Its a take it or leave it deal purchased with the blood of Jesus. God gets what he wants out of it and so do the Saints. The sinners will be thrown into the fiery pit, so what they want doesn't matter.
 
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Stranger

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What I have found to be true about Christians is that they claim to know the mind of an atheist or non believer. Always telling them what they think. This kind of comment shows that you have never really listened to an atheist and understood what they think because you know better because an ancient book says so. Well when an atheist hears this they know it is not true and it doe snot make your god appealing. And this is not what JellyJam was writing about anyway, he was not pointing out your sin he was asking a different question. So your response shows again you don't care to read what he actually said.

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. Proverbs 18:2

I do know better because an Ancient Book says so.

I am not trying to make God appealing. I present the truth of God and Christ. Do with it what you want.

I understood perfectly what was being said. Which is why I said what I said.

Good verse from that Ancient Book.

Stranger
 

JellyJam

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I do know better because an Ancient Book says so.

I am not trying to make God appealing. I present the truth of God and Christ. Do with it what you want.

I understood perfectly what was being said. Which is why I said what I said.

Good verse from that Ancient Book.

Stranger
No one knows anything perfectly, okay.

That's a fact.
 

Stranger

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No one knows anything perfectly, okay.

That's a fact.

So what is this supposed to mean? Nothing? It is just you hoping the Christian and the Bible is wrong. Because no one knows everything then the Christian may be wrong about what he does know.

The Christian does not know all about God. We don't have all knowledge of God. But what we have we know.

Stranger
 
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JellyJam

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So what is this supposed to mean? Nothing? It is just you hoping the Christian and the Bible is wrong. Because no one knows everything then the Christian may be wrong about what he does know.

The Christian does not know all about God. We don't have all knowledge of God. But what we have we know.

Stranger
Well that's a bit of a contradiction, I thought Christianity was a belief system, not a know system.

You know?

What do you know stranger?
 

Stranger

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Well that's a bit of a contradiction, I thought Christianity was a belief system, not a know system.

You know?

What do you know stranger?

Well, shows you again how little you know. The Christian believes and knows.

What do I know? Everything I have already said.

Stranger
 

JellyJam

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Well, shows you again how little you know. The Christian believes and knows.

What do I know? Everything I have already said.

Stranger
You can't know something from belief alone, beliefs are just presuppositions that people project on circumstances they don't actually know.

Unless they accept what they presume to believe in, then that presumption becomes real in their minds.

Which just becomes a delusion.
 

Stranger

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You can't know something from belief alone, beliefs are just presuppositions that people project on circumstances they don't actually know.

Unless they accept what they presume to believe in, then that presumption becomes real in their minds.

Which just becomes a delusion.

Oh yes you can. Faith in Christ brings the Spirit of God into play. Our spirits are alive unto Him and we can know the things He has given to us and for us. We have a knowing that you who are of the world do not have.

(1 Cor. 2:12) "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."

How great is our God.

Stranger
 
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