Maturity in Christ

[Episkopos]

I posted this elsewhere but I thought to make a new thread for this topic....which is so important.

The Holy Spirit is IN a person who is born again. It is Christ IN us. But it takes going to the throne of grace to get the FULL measure of grace. We need to further enter into someone who isn't us....Jesus Christ Himself. It's like the 10 lepers who were healed but only one came back to Jesus. ALL were indeed healed. But there was a selfishness in the other 9 as in...I got what I came for. (Come and get YOUR miracle today).


The Christian walk is about pressing on to maturity. But even maturity is at different levels.


Imagine going for a long walk...say 30 miles. Some people could do that in a day. But then another person takes 2 days....because he is also carrying 80 pounds on his back. So who must be in the better shape?


That's the way it is with the narrow path. Some people seem to have a harder time of it...but their calling is higher. We can be as mature as can be...but maturity in the spiritual walk of purity (holiness) is something vastly different. The walk of the righteous person is one thing...but to walk as Jesus walked for any length of time is miraculous. Can a man walk on water as if he was walking on land?


So then I divide maturity in righteousness...becoming more loving, more forgiving...getting to know God better. That's good...very good. (And it is very necessary) And that's one thing....but then there's maturity IN the Spirit which is like getting used to living on another planet. What makes a person at home on earth does not automatically make a person able to survive in another world. Of course righteousness and holiness are related. Learning righteousness helps with a longevity in holiness...even though it doesn't lead to it.


But the scandal of Jesus Christ is that He didn't just perfect a walk in the power of the flesh for us to grow into or imitate. He perfected humanity by a higher walk...a spiritual walk, and then brings us into it through translation into Zion in the Spirit. The scandal is that we can never improve ourselves into holiness. Holiness is a gift. Spiritual maturity is how long we can walk in the Spirit. Like how long we can walk on water for.


If I only spoke about what men can do...I would not be hated for speaking of the the cross of Christ in this way...the break with human kind which separates us from what we can do in our own capabilities...even mature capabilities. But I speak of the unspeakable gift...so I'm hated by many. The gift of God is the perfection of Christ's humanity given to us already perfected...as a gift. His perfect walk...as a gift. No improvements are required. It's the whole enchilada right away. That is what grace is. A gift of an eternal walk in an eternal life....not our life...but as partakers of HIS life. So the spiritual maturity is learning to walk IN someone else...not yourself. Jesus Christ.


Hard to believe? Absolutely. Not of this world.

But there it is!


Having said all that...God loves us who walk after Him in the fear of Him and the hope of a future life with Him. We are saved not just by an active faith in the moment but also a living hope in the long race. God works with us...and guides us by His Spirit. We are His people who obey His commands and seek after Him.

And then there's the saints...

 

[Nancy]

I posted this elsewhere but I thought to make a new thread for this topic....which is so important.

The Holy Spirit is IN a person who is born again. It is Christ IN us. But it takes going to the throne of grace to get the FULL measure of grace. We need to further enter into someone who isn't us....Jesus Christ Himself. It's like the 10 lepers who were healed but only one came back to Jesus. ALL were indeed healed. But there was a selfishness in the other 9 as in...I got what I came for. (Come and get YOUR miracle today).


The Christian walk is about pressing on to maturity. But even maturity is at different levels.


Imagine going for a long walk...say 30 miles. Some people could do that in a day. But then another person takes 2 days....because he is also carrying 80 pounds on his back. So who must be in the better shape?


That's the way it is with the narrow path. Some people seem to have a harder time of it...but their calling is higher. We can be as mature as can be...but maturity in the spiritual walk of purity (holiness) is something vastly different. The walk of the righteous person is one thing...but to walk as Jesus walked for any length of time is miraculous. Can a man walk on water as if he was walking on land?


So then I divide maturity in righteousness...becoming more loving, more forgiving...getting to know God better. That's good...very good. (And it is very necessary) And that's one thing....but then there's maturity IN the Spirit which is like getting used to living on another planet. What makes a person at home on earth does not automatically make a person able to survive in another world. Of course righteousness and holiness are related. Learning righteousness helps with a longevity in holiness...even though it doesn't lead to it.


But the scandal of Jesus Christ is that He didn't just perfect a walk in the power of the flesh for us to grow into. He perfected humanity by a higher walk...a spiritual walk, and then brings us into it through translation into Zion in the Spirit. The scandal is that we can never improve ourselves into holiness. Holiness is a gift. Spiritual maturity is how long we can walk in the Spirit. Like how long we can walk on water for.


If I only spoke about what men can do...I would not be hated for speaking of the the cross of Christ in this way...the break with human kind which separates us from what we can do in our own capabilities...even mature capabilities. But I speak of the unspeakable gift...so I'm hated by many. The gift of God is the perfection of Christ's humanity given to us already perfected...as a gift. His perfect walk...as a gift. No improvements are required. It's the whole enchilada right away. That is what grace is. A gift of an eternal walk in an eternal life....not our life...but as partakers of HIS life. So the spiritual maturity is learning to walk IN someone else...not yourself. Jesus Christ.


Hard to believe? Absolutely. Not of this world.

But there it is!


Having said all that...God loves us who walk after Him in the fear of Him and the hope of a future life with Him. We are saved not just by an active faith in the moment but also a living hope in the long race. God works with us...and guides us by His Spirit. We are His people who obey His commands and seek after Him.

And then there's the saints...

It all seems to boil down to faith, always! Some days it feels as if I have faith big as a grapefruit and some days, not so much so...with myself, anyhow, it's consistency ... or lack thereof!

 

[Episkopos]

It all seems to boil down to faith, always! Some days it feels as if I have faith big as a grapefruit and some days, not so much so...with myself, anyhow, it's consistency ... or lack thereof!

It's getting the faith down to that mustard seed size...that the hard part! :)

 

[Nancy]

It's getting the faith down to that mustard seed size...that the hard part! :)

Yep, I'm biting off more than I can chew sometimes, lol.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

down to that mustard seed size

Interesting choice of words. What do you mean down to that mustard seed size? Always heard the mustard seed size is the beginning point and faith grows bigger from there?

 

[Episkopos]

Interesting choice of words. What do you mean down to that mustard seed size? Always heard the mustard seed size is the beginning point and faith grows bigger from there?

Ah...there's the rub. I look at this as a key....like the key of David. It has to be exactly right. The right attitude. An attitude that is "perfect."

Otherwise I agree with you...the bigger the faith the better.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It all seems to boil down to faith, always! Some days it feels as if I have faith big as a grapefruit and some days, not so much so...with myself, anyhow, it's consistency ... or lack thereof!

I disagree. I'd say your faith is at least as big as a watermelon!

The overcomer's faith is always bigger than the overcomer thinks. That's because they've been brought into the holy realm of humility.

It is in humility that you turn all your cares on Jesus, realizing He is the Great Overcomer. You KNOW you have no power in yourself, so, of course, you will feel small by comparison. And the more humility you have, the smaller you feel, and the more trust you place on Jesus, so your faith is HUGE! And that is maturity in Christ, because you have found and entered into God's rest. Hebrews 4.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ah...there's the rub. I look at this as a key....like the key of David. It has to be exactly right. The right attitude. An attitude that is "perfect."

Otherwise I agree with you...the bigger the faith the better.

No need to agree. Not saying ‘the bigger the faith the better’ ...it is only what I’ve heard and was asking. Thought maybe you were suggesting faith which is puffed up must decrease to the size of a mustard seed.

 

[Episkopos]

No need to agree. Not saying ‘the bigger the faith the better’ ...it is only what I’ve heard and was asking. Thought maybe you were suggesting faith which is puffed up must decrease to the size of a mustard seed.

Paul is so often speaking..."among them that are perfect." Who are the perfect but they who receive the gospel in all humility as little children. A humble faith then is a realization of the scale of God and His calling. God does give grace to the humble. And that is what we are talking about here.

We need to get in line with God's will....to get in tune with His voice. Then the Spirit comes to get us. Otherwise God remains at a distance and progress is slow.

Many people don't understand salvation at all. They confuse a present faith...meant to attract God into translating us into His presence and power...with a living hope...that helps to keep us faithful till the end of our days here.

We need both....plus love of course.

But people lack faith...instead calling their hope of a future salvation...faith.

So then no one is saved for all eternity before the end of the race. BUT we can enter into eternal life by faith right now.

So whether the mustard seed faith is all we can produce....or less than that...God watches for the right amount before acting.

How did Abel know that his sacrifice was received by God?...the fire came down!
How did Cain know his sacrifice was NOT received by God?...the fire didn't come down!

So when someone testifies that God has taken him to walk in Zion because of a humble faith that was received by God....all the "Cains" in the church hate him for it.

 

[Episkopos]

Theosis (onenes with God) is no longer taught in the Western churches....hence the falling away from the true faith. But it is biblical and although rejected in the Western churches...it is still a basic tenet in the Eastern orthodox churches. The Salvation Army is an exception ...well at least they used to be as well as a few other denominations (at least they also used to be). These taught holiness and entire sanctification. But nothing like the Eastern churches.

Paul was an advocate of the high calling in Christ...Oneness with God.....which is practically unknown in the West in modern times.
To understand what Paul was after...winning Christ...one must realize that Theosis IS spiritual maturity in Christ. But this race will be unknown until one learns what the spiritual walk really is. One needs to pray through to God so as to move Him for a blessing...like Jacob did when he wrestled with the angel. He left that place in the intimacy of God (shalem).

They say that prayer is the key to heaven...but it is faith that is the hand that turns the key.

 

[Nancy]

I disagree. I'd say your faith is at least as big as a watermelon!

The overcomer's faith is always bigger than the overcomer thinks. That's because they've been brought into the holy realm of humility.

It is in humility that you turn all your cares on Jesus, realizing He is the Great Overcomer. You KNOW you have no power in yourself, so, of course, you will feel small by comparison. And the more humility you have, the smaller you feel, and the more trust you place on Jesus, so your faith is HUGE! And that is maturity in Christ, because you have found and entered into God's rest. Hebrews 4.

Well, thank you for the encouragement sister! Amen.

 

[Enoch111]

What do you mean down to that mustard seed size?

Jesus said that all you need is faith the size of a mustard seed, and you will be able to move mountains. That may sound paradoxical but many teachings of Christ are paradoxical.

And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. (Mt 17:20)

The modern bible versions have distorted this teaching and say "Because of your little faith" instead of "because of your unbelief" (total lack of faith).

 

[Episkopos]

But the scandal of Jesus Christ is that He didn't just perfect a walk in the power of the flesh for us to grow into. He perfected humanity by a higher walk...a spiritual walk, and then brings us into it through translation into Zion in the Spirit. The scandal is that we can never improve ourselves into holiness. Holiness is a gift. Spiritual maturity is how long we can walk in the Spirit. Like how long we can walk on water for.

I didn't present scripture verses in the OP so as to keep it short and concise. But I'd like to zero in on some points that bring the bible into a better focus on this subject.

Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

This is a reference to the higher walk in the Spirit which we all are called to. Once we are IN that walk...we are not finished. We have simply begun a race on that level....and THAT is the high calling in Christ. The high calling can only be embarked upon in the Spirit...among they who are kept in the Spirit by the keeping power of God.

Phil. 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Here Paul is avowing his purpose towards the high calling in Christ AMONG THOSE who have been given the perfect walk of Christ which is by grace through faith.

Jesus Christ is coming back for a church without spot or wrinkle...without sin. A very few of us will have attained to the full stature of Christ. To the praise and glory of God. A few of us will be in the process of that high calling.

But most believers, they who know nothing of this higher race...will be found in whatever state of maturity in righteousness they advanced into...or not.

So then there are different glories for the participants of the race of faith...

1 Cor. 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus said that all you need is faith the size of a mustard seed, and you will be able to move mountains. That may sound paradoxical but many teachings of Christ are paradoxical.

And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. (Mt 17:20)

The modern bible versions have distorted this teaching and say "Because of your little faith" instead of "because of your unbelief" (total lack of faith).

What about Matthew 8:25-26 And his disciples came to him , and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish. [26] And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Is it ‘unbelief’ or ‘O you of little faith’?

 

[ScottA]

To see things as they truly are...life as we know it, is not even life, but rather death. This is the word from Christ to the children of Abraham. So what reason do we have to even think that there is a comparison to be made between life in the flesh and in the world, with that of eternal life? At best, we have foreshadowing examples. At worst, we have the world we were born into. Still, many who call themselves followers of Christ expect and even insist that the flesh just needs a glorious tuneup or overhaul from God. But is that all that death needs to make it life? How absurd! No, we should know better. The flesh needs to die, and we need to be completely born again of the spirit of God. God is not even going to revive the old earth and old heaven...He's making it completely new. So why would we think we are simply going to get spiritual CPR, and then step into glory? The answer is...we're not.

So, the maturity that is required if we are at all going to experience it in the world, is to lose that fleshly, physical, and worldly identity, that we may gain the life that has been promised. On the contrary, no eternal life has been promised to the flesh. Consequently, those who mature as walking in the spirit while alive and remaining in the flesh (to live is Christ), they do serve the kingdom. But those who's gifts are of things pertaining to this world, they serve those in the world, whether they are walking in the spirit or in the flesh. There is both, and both have needs. But the end game, the objective, is the spirit and the kingdom, and therefore, we are to seek it first.

As for those who speak against what is spiritual, they are of no service for, but rather against the Spirit, to His grief.

 

[Episkopos]

We are saved FROM....like crossing the red sea from Egypt (the world) and saved TO (the promised land) like crossing over the Jordan. MANY people never make it to the promised land (the spiritual realm). Through unbelief many erstwhile believers (go figure) perish in the wilderness. Once we are saved to the spiritual realm...we begin a new race...that of conquering (overcoming) by the power of God. The high calling of God is to possess the land. :)

 

[Enoch111]

Is it ‘unbelief’ or ‘O you of little faith’?

Again context is critical. Since faith as a grain of mustard seed means just a tiny amount of faith, it is rightly compared in the KJB with unbelief (total lack of faith). On the other hand, since Jesus was in the ship with the disciples, yet they were fearful instead of being calm, they were of "little faith" in assuming that they would perish in the storm.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Again context is critical. Since faith as a grain of mustard seed means just a tiny amount of faith, it is rightly compared in the KJB with unbelief (total lack of faith). On the other hand, since Jesus was in the ship with the disciples, yet they were fearful instead of being calm, they were of "little faith" in assuming that they would perish in the storm.

I'm not understanding you. You are saying that trust the size of a mustard seed means no trust at all...? So then Jesus was saying...if you have trust even the size of a mustard seed, it is unbelief, and you can move mountains with this unbelief...?

 

[Episkopos]

We can't speak about any kind of spiritual maturity without speaking of the narrow gateway of being crucified with Christ. The narrow path that follows in this now resurrected life of abiding in Jesus is as we remain a living sacrifice allowing our flesh to remain crucified so that Jesus can live His life through us. It's a tall order and very difficult. It goes against the grain of our need for freedom and autonomy. Few will want to do this and even when they who think they would want to prove unable to remain in that crucified state.

But we can encourage one another to press forward in this high calling in the Lord. If there were more of us that were willing and able to walk that narrow path...more of us would succeed...and the face of the world would change.

Everybody wants to see change but nobody wants the change to depend on their faithfulness to the high calling in Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Here is a hymn that speaks of a time where more people believed in sanctification as a way of life...even an entire sanctification! :)

1
All to Jesus I surrender,
All to Him I freely give;
I will ever love and trust Him,
In His presence daily live.
I surrender all,
I surrender all.
All to Thee, my blessed Savior,
I surrender all.
2
All to Jesus I surrender,
Humbly at His feet I bow,
Worldly pleasures all forsaken;
Take me, Jesus, take me now.
3
All to Jesus I surrender,
Make me, Savior, wholly Thine;
Let me feel Thy Holy Spirit,
Truly know that Thou art mine.
4
All to Jesus I surrender,
Lord, I give myself to Thee;
Fill me with Thy love and power,
Let Thy blessing fall on me.
5
All to Jesus I surrender,
Now I feel the sacred flame.
Oh, the joy of full salvation!
Glory, glory to His name!