All the ELECT please stand up

[Kermos]

Well if they did not have the ability to choose God, God would not have held them accountable. Please read that passage again, especially the last verse, and get rid of your false notions about sinners not being able to choose God after hearing the Gospel and being convicted.
...snip

Romans 10:16-21, does not indicate "free will" in any way, shape, or form; otherwise, the Apostle Paul would be contradicting the words of the Lord Jesus when Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Only the wicked and deceived would claim to be able to "choose" Jesus because man choosing is the opposite of what the Lord Jesus clearly states in John 15:16.

The Truth is that God is in control (2 Corinthians 5:14).

Truth for those that hunger and thirst for righteousness:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience of Lord Jesus for John 14:16 and John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias and Joseph in Exhibit 7 with the Lord Jesus and the Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

 

[SovereignGrace]

What's the problem?
You can't answer my question on free will?

If you had written 5 pages, you'd expect me to read all 5 pages before answering a question?

Here. Try again:

You said you don't believe in free will.

So when a person murders somebody...
WHOSE WILL are they adhering to?

The answer seems easy to me...
by YOUR theology it would have to be God Himself.

Is THIS the sovereign God you speak of?

The robbers who had been crucified with Him were also insulting Him with the same words.[Matthew 27:44]

Those who were crucified with Him were also insulting Him.[Mark 15:32b]

One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!” But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!”[Luke 23:39-42]

The gospel of John does not record these two thieves words.


Matthew and Mark both record the thief on the Christ's right side insulted Him(as did the thief on His left side). Luke recorded the thief on the right having a completely different demeanor after first insulting Him. So, what caused the thief on the right side have a change in his demeanor towards the Christ while the thief on His left side still hurled insults at Him?

 

[CharismaticLady]

You are mistaken for you subscribe to the false doctrine of "free will". The only "free will" mention in the New Testament - a single mention of it - is used in figurative fashion not actual application - thus the Apostle Paul successfully conveyed that doing good was at best an appearance of "free will" but not actual "free will". "Free will" is now dispensed to the doctrine of man.

Let's just look at the Lord Jesus' words recorded in John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Wow, CharismaticLady, you sure did change the passage! You wrote "WHOSOEVER will accept Him of their own free will". Bad, bad, bad, changing the words of Jesus like that! Jesus did not say "whoever chooses to believe" nor did He say "accept Him" nor did He say "free will". Lord Jesus said "whoever believes" in John 3:16, and Lord Jesus said:

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
(John 6:29)

See, CharismaticLady, that it is a work of God that a person believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent. God gives faith, that is election. Faith/belief is by God's choosing of the person! Lord Jesus said:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you"
(John 15:16)

And these words of Jesus, God incarnate, close the door on people "accepting" or "choosing" or "willing" unto salvation.

We that are of Christ, born into His resurrection, live sanctified lives according to the Holy Spirit, for Lord Jesus says as much:

"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
(John 3:21)

"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."
(John 16:7-11)

"You will know them by their fruits"
(Matther 7:16)

There you have it, good works are the fruit of the Spirit of God! That's not of man, CharismaticLady.

God is good, man is bad, God chooses man thus man inherits God's righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Lord Jesus said:

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."
(John 10:27-28)

Israel God's elect are safe for NO ONE CAN SNATCH GOD'S CHOSEN FROM GOD'S HAND!

"Free will" is against God! "Free will" is heresy. "Free will" leads to death. Only God can free a person from "free will" delusion!

By the @Nancy, you have bound yourself to wrong doctrince again, by your "like" of CharismaticLady's post!

To "accept" or "choose" is through free will. Sorry if you are blind to that, but many are blind and lead other blind folk into the ditch with them. Ah vey!

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is another member on here, @1stCenturyLady who has the exact same avatar, so that’s gonna get confusing having two members with the same avatar.

No, its me. If you look at my profile, I said aka 1stcenturylady. I had computer problems where when Microsoft did an update, it wiped out even my bookmarks, and I had about a hundred. Also, my login didn't work due to someone hacking my email account, and having to change passwords. Sites I had under the same email address, but was coded with the original password, no longer recognized me, so I had to start over with a completely different email address. At least, I couldn't get in, so went the easy way of starting fresh. I used the same advatar so people would guess it was me.

 

[SovereignGrace]

To "accept" or "choose" is through free will. Sorry if you are blind to that, but many are blind and lead other blind folk into the ditch with them. Ah vey!

But how can slaves to sin choose? The lost are enslaved to sin and Satan. Only the Christ can make a slave free.[John 8:31-36] If the were slaves, they need to be freed from their slavery. Only the Christ can set them free.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You need to notice that in the passage you quoted, Romans 10:16-21, does not say that the Jews had the ability to choose God. God shows patience toward the lost, even those that claim to have free will to choose God, but the time of patience will come to an end, and at that time the wrath of God will fall upon the people who claim to do the opposite of that which Lord Jesus said (John 15:16).

Apparently, you missed this:

He chose Abraham to birth Israel. Out of these ppl the Messiah would come. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;[Romans 9:6] Not every Jew was God's elect. (that's a quote from SovereignGrace's post).

Only a fool would write that election is not for salvation. Elect and chosen are the same thing.

Lord Jesus said:

"For many are called, but few [are] chosen."
(Matthew 22:14)

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you"
(John 15:16)

In case you are not sure, still, behold, Lord Jesus said:

"apart from Me you can do nothing"
(John 15:5)

That's a lot to chew on about election, and here is more, "The Righteous Sovereignty of God Post" (in this thread), "The Audience of Lord Jesus for John 14:16 and John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread), and "Matthias and Joseph in Exhibit 7 with the Lord Jesus and the Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread) contain the Truth.

"Whosoever will" is referring to free will, not puppets.

 

[CharismaticLady]

But how can slaves to sin choose? The lost are enslaved to sin and Satan. Only the Christ can make a slave free.[John 8:31-36] If the were slaves, they need to be freed from their slavery. Only the Christ can set them free.

They are the only ones who WILL choose. You don't choose something you don't need, and the self-righteous choose their own power. Why do you think John the Baptist came first? What did he preach?

REPENTANCE from sin was the straight path leading to Jesus. He then gave those who repented and saw themselves as weak sinners, His own sinless Spirit to empower us to not willfully sin. This is how we are dead to sin, and not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Romans 6:2, Romans 8:9. Those who REMAIN a sinner and a slave to sin after thinking they've been saved, are fooling only themselves. John 8:34-36; 1 John 3:8. Only the righteous and holy will enter heaven, but the unbelieving and filthy will be forever with their own father, the devil in hell. Revelation 22:11

 

[CharismaticLady]

@SovereignGrace

Good night friend. It was nice that you remembered my avatar

 

[CharismaticLady]

That's her then. She bears false witness and says we're the dead church. She's clueless. If you're going to put "lady" in your moniker, at least try to act like one, at least that's my opinion.

A true man tells the truth. A true lady does too, especially to save others from themselves. Jesus is the one who called the church age after Thyatira (the RCC and Oth) the dead church when He said "you have a reputation that you are alive, but you are dead." That was said to Sardis, the church age of the Reformation. That was a prophecy, and like all inspired words needs to be read with spiritual eyes. To all others that's foolishness and they do not take the warning. But its nice to know you've read my posts.

 

[farouk]

A true man tells the truth. A true lady does too, especially to save others from themselves. Jesus is the one who called the church age after Thyatira (the RCC and Oth) the dead church when He said "you have a reputation that you are alive, but you are dead." That was said to Sardis, the church age of the Reformation. That was a prophecy, and like all inspired words needs to be read with spiritual eyes. To all others that's foolishness and they do not take the warning. But its nice to know you've read my posts.

The letters to the seven churches in Asia in Revelation are very searching.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I am fine with 1st Century Lady, I love her! but, this has nothing at all to do with my post. She another member has the same AVATAR as her and SG and myself, at first thought it WAS 1st CL. I have not seen her on here in a while, so I was going to welcome her BACK. But, it was not HER

Boo! It's me!!! I had computer problems and had to start a new membership with a different name, but I kept my avatar of my loveable raccoons I feed every night.

 

[SovereignGrace]

They are the only ones who WILL choose. You don't choose something you don't need, and the self-righteous choose their own power. Why do you think John the Baptist came first? What did he preach?

REPENTANCE from sin was the straight path leading to Jesus. He then gave those who repented and saw themselves as weak sinners, His own sinless Spirit to empower us to not willfully sin. This is how we are dead to sin, and not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Romans 6:2, Romans 8:9. Those who REMAIN a sinner and a slave to sin after thinking they've been saved, are fooling only themselves. John 8:34-36; 1 John 3:8. Only the righteous and holy will enter heaven, but the unbelieving and filthy will be forever with their own father, the devil in hell. Revelation 22:11

You are placing the effect before the cause. No one repents and then they get the Spirit of God. Repentance is the very gift of God.

He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[Acts of the Apostles 5:31]

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”[Acts of the Apostles 11:18]

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?[Romans 2:4]

I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.[2 Corinthians 7:9-10]

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,[2 Timothy 2:25]

In every place, it speaks to the truth of God granting repentance to ppl. Fallen ppl can not repent because they will not. And they will not repent because they hate Him.[Romans 8:5-9]

 

[CharismaticLady]

The letters to the seven churches in Asia in Revelation are very searching.

What church fathers couldn't see in the early centuries of the church is that they were not just for those cities, but were PROPHECY of the history of the church before He returns. When you study church history the eras are easy to recognize, and they are IN ORDER. If they were in any other order, they wouldn't match history. We are in the last church age, the lukewarm era. People are too set in their waking slumber to heed the warnings. Jesus is coming soon and everyone needs to ready themselves.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You are placing the effect before the cause. No one repents and then they get the Spirit of God. Repentance is the very gift of God.

He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[Acts of the Apostles 5:31]

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”[Acts of the Apostles 11:18]

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?[Romans 2:4]

I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.[2 Corinthians 7:9-10]

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,[2 Timothy 2:25]

In every place, it speaks to the truth of God granting repentance to ppl. Fallen ppl can not repent because they will not. And they will not repent because they hate Him.[Romans 8:5-9]

Peter told them to REPENT and they SHALL RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. Which came first? Acts 2:38

Throw out everything you've learned from man, and just read the Word of God.

 

[farouk]

What church fathers couldn't see in the early centuries of the church is that they were not just for those cities, but were PROPHECY of the history of the church before He returns. When you study church history the eras are easy to recognize, and they are IN ORDER. If they were in any other order, they wouldn't match history. We are in the last church age, the lukewarm era. People are too set in their waking slumber to heed the warnings. Jesus is coming soon and everyone needs to ready themselves.

I am sure that periods of history have demonstrated various of the tendencies in the different letters to the churches of Asia. Having travelled widely also I guess I would also reckon that some of the tendencies can be latent in some parts of the world and very present in others, at the same time. It's a series of warnings against all sorts of tendencies, really, for all those who profess.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Peter told them to REPENT and they SHALL RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. Which came first? Acts 2:38

Actually, they happen together. There is the birth of the Spirit which brings with Him the gifts of faith and repentance. After the new birth, the Holy Spirit is given. But all this happens simultaneously.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Actually, they happen together. There is the birth of the Spirit which brings with Him the gifts of faith and repentance. After the new birth, the Holy Spirit is given. But all this happens simultaneously.

Repentance is not a gift.

People were repenting and being baptized by John the Baptist BEFORE the Spirit fell.

 

[farouk]

Repentance is not a gift.

Romans 2 says that 'the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance'.

I see what the other person means.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Romans 2 says that 'the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance'.

I see what the other person means.

Read it is context farouk. If the goodness of God resulted in an irresistible lead to repentance, explain the hard hearts of those who don't? It is called free will.

4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

I know you believe the TULIP philosophy, and that is what it is - man made philosophy, not holy doctrine. Do you really think God wants a bunch of puppets? Why did some of the angels fall? FREE WILL. God wants those who love Him because they want to, not because they are made to.

Good night, good buddy!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Repentance is not a gift.

People were repenting and being baptized by John the Baptist BEFORE the Spirit fell.

Those vss I previously posted easily refute you.

Seeing you believe the power to repent resides within mankind, why do some choose to not wield it?

Why do some choose to wield it.