MARK 6:3 DID JESUS HAVE BROTHERS AND SISTERS ?

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Jane_Doe22

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Agreed,,,but I'm not happy about this.
Jesus said we should remain one.
John 17:21
Even with the bible as a guide, we can't seem to agree.
People can't even agree which books are in the Bible (they range from 66 to 81), let alone "sola scriptura" (scripture of course being defined by tradition). There's just too many interpretations of everything.
If there's one church,,,,and then a group breaks away,,,,I'd say the original is the one that goes back to the beginning.

I'd have to say the Catholic Church IS the original church.
Why? Because the Bishops of the early church developed into the Pope, and the Ortho don't have a pope (not with that name anyway)..so, I'd have to say the CC.
Note: Catholicism rejects Sola Sciptura.
 

Helen

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the RCC was not the first organized church.

PICJAG

And there we have it.

Whatever the 'church' and whatever the name...they chose to be ORGANIZED , as if that were a good thing!! :eek:

Just like Israel, they rejected God as their King and demanded Samuel a King of their own, that they could SEE sitting on a throne , like the nations behind them.

The "Organized church" rejected the leading of the Holy Spirit and wanted a man to lead them, one that they could see standing out front...

They put their hand to the Ark, just like Uzzah did.
And the glory cloud departed.

The more 'organized' the church, the less the anointed glory cloud of God is upon it.
soapbox.gif :D
 

GodsGrace

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People can't even agree which books are in the Bible (they range from 66 to 81), let alone "sola scriptura" (scripture of course being defined by tradition). There's just too many interpretations of everything.

Note: Catholicism rejects Sola Sciptura.
I know.
They have their traditions.
And I've never seen a list of them.
I do have to say that what they teach is from the bible.
Well, not everything! I can think of a few dogma that I can't relate to the bible.

For instance, their Mariology comes from tradition and not scripture.
Although, I haven't ever seen much of that either.
There's talk about her in the Protoevangelium of James.
Some catholic theologians believe Jesus had brothers...at least they did about 20 years ago...it's probably still true.

They don't reject scripture...they just have their own ideas...
like purgatory. I just don't see it anywhere and neither does every priest.
 

Jane_Doe22

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I know.
They have their traditions.
And I've never seen a list of them.
I do have to say that what they teach is from the bible.
Well, not everything! I can think of a few dogma that I can't relate to the bible.

For instance, their Mariology comes from tradition and not scripture.
Although, I haven't ever seen much of that either.
There's talk about her in the Protoevangelium of James.
Some catholic theologians believe Jesus had brothers...at least they did about 20 years ago...it's probably still true.

They don't reject scripture...they just have their own ideas...
like purgatory. I just don't see it anywhere and neither does every priest.
No: Catholic firmly REJECT Sola Scirptura. Rather they see Church Tradition (note the caps) being on par in authority and at times even of more importance (since there's the argument that scripture itself is defined by Church Tradition). The official CCC position is that Sola Scriptura is a big hearsay.

Aside: I'm not saying this is a bad thing-- I myself don't believe Sola Scriptura. I'm just stating it is a thing and the two positions are unreconcilable.
 

GodsGrace

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No: Catholic firmly REJECT Sola Scirptura. Rather they see Church Tradition (note the caps) being on par in authority and at times even of more importance (since there's the argument that scripture itself is defined by Church Tradition). The official CCC position is that Sola Scriptura is a big hearsay.

Aside: I'm not saying this is a bad thing-- I myself don't believe Sola Scriptura. I'm just stating it is a thing and the two positions are unreconcilable.
I think I agreed with you.
You could read my post again.

As to scripture itself being defined by the church....
Maybe it's not such a bad idea...the more I think of it.
At least everyone in that church believes in conditional security and they don't have to argue about it for pages at a time.

You don't think this would be a good idea?
 

Jane_Doe22

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I think I agreed with you.
You could read my post again.

As to scripture itself being defined by the church....
Maybe it's not such a bad idea...the more I think of it.
At least everyone in that church believes in conditional security and they don't have to argue about it for pages at a time.

You don't think this would be a good idea?
I will fully agree what Catholics are Christians-- complete agree with that.
I acknowledge that the Catholic Church strives to follow God, and does many great things, and has many many fantastic Christians therein. There's a lot I admire about Catholicism and Catholic people.
That being said, I can't say that I believe that everything the Catholic Church teaches is 100% from God. There are some truth claims therein that I have major problems with.
 

GodsGrace

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I will fully agree what Catholics are Christians-- complete agree with that.
I acknowledge that the Catholic Church strives to follow God, and does many great things, and has many many fantastic Christians therein. There's a lot I admire about Catholicism and Catholic people.
That being said, I can't say that I believe that everything the Catholic Church teaches is 100% from God. There are some truth claims therein that I have major problems with.
I agree.
:)
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Of course you're entitled to your opinion.
The reason I can't agree with it is because Jesus was the ultimate and last revelation of God.

John Smith and Muhammad and all the others that claim to have received special insight did not receive it from God. Jesus said a Kingdom divided is a Kingdom lost...a house divided against itself cannot stand.

If Jesus taught something and then others teach something else and Jesus was the last revelation...that means the others are wrong...not Him.

If a person is living a christianly life and believes they are obeying our God, I do believe they are saved even if their doctrine is wrong. Can we be sure any doctrine is correct unless the bible specifically speaks to it?
I don't think so.

Addressing this part first, because I want to give it a huge AMEN!

Ok, now on to talking about everything else--

(Just explaining my beliefs here, while totally acknowledging that yours are different. Thank you for sharing your perspective, and for you usual gracious manner )

For me, it's a big deal that God doesn't change. He personally spoke and lead His people before Christ's mortal birth, during Christ's mortal life, and afterwards. That doesn't change. Majority of the New Testament was actually written after Christ's Ascension, a lot of it by Paul whom didn't know Christ during His mortal ministry, but still Paul was lead by God all the same and the Bible tells vividly later prophets. God lead His people before and now.

This prompted me to make an more elaborate answer on my explaining-my-beliefs thread: post 197 What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ
 

amadeus

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And there we have it.

Whatever the 'church' and whatever the name...they chose to be ORGANIZED , as if that were a good thing!! :eek:

Just like Israel, they rejected God as their King and demanded Samuel a King of their own, that they could SEE sitting on a throne , like the nations behind them.

The "Organized church" rejected the leading of the Holy Spirit and wanted a man to lead them, one that they could see standing out front...

They put their hand to the Ark, just like Uzzah did.
And the glory cloud departed.

The more 'organized' the church, the less the anointed glory cloud of God is upon it.
View attachment 6717 :D
Right on it Helen! As man's organization increases, the lead of the Holy Spirit decreases:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30
 
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Nondenom40

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I understand you....
But forget about all that.
I'm talking about history.
One church MUST go back to the beginning.
If you think there's a break in the line of the catholic church
WHERE do you think it is?
I can't find it.

This has nothing to do with being right or wrong..I also don't agree with all Catholic doctrine, but history is history.

And that church does have some really nice teachings BTW.
Sorry but the rcc wasn't around for hundreds of years post apostolic age. There is no papacy in the n.t or priesthood. None of it is there.
 
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Helen

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Sorry but the rcc wasn't around for hundreds of years post apostolic age. There is no papacy in the n.t or priesthood. None of it is there.

Agree.

Plus the discussion must first settle on what or who The Church are!!

First things first...it is NOT the 'established , organized church'.


Jesus and His believing followers were, and still are The Church.
Everything else is ordered by man.

The 'word' church has many mentions ...but it is always a living anointed group of believers who's Head is God Himself. Don't you think?
 
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