The Church The Papacy Says You Should Join
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The point was....where in Scripture is it taught that one IS spiritually quickened without them confessing belief....in God and in the Word of God?
Glory to God,
Taken
You are so intent on proving everyone else wrong, you forget to think. You are correct that baptism is a representation of death, but is rather a depiction of something Ajay taken place in the heart and mind...a public declaration of the decision already made. As for physical death for the born again believer, no, that isn't death. That is sleep, as Jesus said of Lazarus... We get woken up from that at the resurrection. Sorry BoL, there is no second death for the redeemed, that is for the lost only.
KJV Revelation 2
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Philip James
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Brother,
I know your point, but you miss mine entirely...
To deny that the children of God can ask this gift for our children, is to deny the very power of the Spirit Himself....
Where is your faith?
Peace be with you!
ScottA
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Lose? You kid yourself.
The fallacy is anyone thinking they could go back after being born. You must have missed that lesson.
You have learned nothing, have gained nothing, and therefore have nothing to lose.
PS, But do take heed, the warnings were for you who think you have something but have not. For, as it is written, if you do not take heed..."whoever does not have, even what he seems to have will be taken from him.”
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The point is not about ASKING.
The point is you believing one person can ASK for ANOtHER person to Be quickened....and the Othe person has NOT Confessed Belief IN God or Christ.
Where is your Scriptural support, one does NOT have to BELIEVE IN God or the Word of God, to BECOME indwelt with the Holy Spirit?
Glory to God,
Taken
Precisely!
An individual who FREELY confesses HEARTFELT Belief IN thee Lord God....
IS the individual WHO becomes SAV-ED and BORN AGAIN...
Not WAITING to be SAVED....Soul SAV-ED!
The SAME individual RECEIVES...a NEW HEART...
BOL...teaches a man CAN BECOME Saved and BORN AGAIN.....AND THEN "change his MIND", and Reject his salvation and quickened spirit....
So misguided BOL..The Lord NEVER ACCEPTED a CONFESSION from the mans MIND!!
The Carnal MIND is AGAINST GOD!
The Lord God ACCEPTS a Confession of Belief.....FROM THE MANS natual spirit ...
IN the mans HEART....
And then the man RECEIVS A NEW spirit and NEW HEART....
BOL's corny teaching...he was taught it is the MIND that makes a confession....and then can RECEIVE salvation....and quickened spirit...and then Change their MIND and lose their salvation.....Weird...
Scripture teaches no such thing.
Stiffnecked, arrogant and ill taught.
Glory to God,
Taken
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Again, (amen,) I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.
You forget that Faith is a gift!
As for me and my household we shall serve the Lord!
Peace!
The life that is in us after being born...
Is it immortal, or dependant upon another? According to the scriptures only God is immortal, therefore whatever life we have is always subject to death, at least until such time as that final enemy is put down yes? In other words, whatever life have as Christians is conditional. Because if its conditional, the only guarantees come for those meeting those conditions. Therefore it can be lost.
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Marymog
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Hmmmmm......I didn’t know that. Fascinating!!
I am not intending to goad you....only letting you know you need to do your own research instead of relying on me to provide you with such simple, basic, easy to find information.
Mary
Marymog
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Marymog
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I wonder if there were any false prophets who started a church in the late 1800’s who committed heresy by teaching that the Lords day is on Saturday and not Sunday? Or who falsely predicted the 2nd coming in 1844?
Curious Mary
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It will be easier to follow the lineage from Jesus' day to ours, but you can read it from the bottom back up to the top afterward:
- The apostolic Church kept God's commandments and had the testimony of Jesus (the Spirit of Prophecy) and the faith of Jesus.
- This Church was persecuted by Pagan Rome for its refusal to accept Caesar as "god" and as legit the Pantheon of innumerable gods.
- In the 4th century, Pagan Rome, in a purely political move to unite the crumbling Empire, finally made Christianity the legal state religion, and corrupt Christians pushed their way to the top in order to benefit from what such influential positions had to offer, and moved the headquarters of Christianity from Palestine where it was born to ROME.
- Compromise took over Christianity and every stripe and type of pagan belief, ritual, and symbolism was dragged into the church and baptized as "Christian".
- A division within the Church resulted which set those of God's Church who kept the commandments of God and had the testimony and the faith of Jesus on one side, and hypocrite vain worshipers of God who who rejected God's Law for the "commandments of men" and whose mouths honored God but whose hearts were far from Him on the other side.
- A severe persecution of God's Church broke out against His true Church members at the hands of these hypocrite "Christian" leaders who would go on to establish the system of "the papacy" in 538 A.D. when they united with the secular State power to punish "heretics" who refused to go along with their false, anti-Biblical religious ideas.
- God's Church fled from this persecution into the wilderness and for centuries endured hardship and persecution, but also the favor of God for the glory brought to Him by their faithfulness and endurance to the end.
- Toward the end of the 1,260 years, the Church slowly began to emerge from the wilderness with the rise of the Protestant Reformation, and in 1798, papal Rome finally received the predicted deadly wound at the same time the Church was coming forth from her long exile from public view, and God's people escaped to the New World to establish what is now the greatest springboard for greatest end times global evangelistic effort the world has ever seen.
- Previously, God first raised up the Lutheran Church with the most important message of all: salvation by grace through faith alone, not by works, a system, or a pope. However, with the death of Luther, the followers said, "This far and no further than our leader taught us." So, God was forced to raise up the others, the Baptists who taught the truth of immersion, the Methodists who taught righteousness by faith, the Pentecosts who taught about the indispensable power of the Holy Spirit, etc., etc., etc. His "remnant Church" had yet to be fully restored, but would be in time.
- During the end of the 1,260 years, there happened what is known as "the Great Religious Awakening" when signs in the heavens predicted by the prophet Joel and John the Revelator led Lutherans, Calvinists, Methodists, etc., to study the eschatological passages of Scripture and they concluded that Jesus was about the come. These became known as "Adventists" for their "heretical" belief derived from their conclusion that the 2,300 Days prophecy would start the same time as the 70 Weeks (457 B.C.) and end in 1844 with the "cleansing of the Sanctuary Earth by the fiery Second Coming". They were kicked out of their respective denominations for rejecting the mainstream idea that God's Church was entering the "1,000 years of peace, after which Jesus would come" which reason for believing that was the fact that the 1,260 years of papal persecution had finally drawn to a close with the papal deadly wound.
- As these Adventists waited for Jesus to come in 1844, they were severely disappointed, and many gave up their faith, but a core group of members went back to the Scriptures and discovered the most important discovery of the last days: the Heavenly Sanctuary and our High Priest Jesus Christ Who is there ministering for us, after which the entire OT Israelite economy was designed and set up. It was this Heavenly Sanctuary that was to be cleansed in 1844, when Christ would enter in the Most Holy Place and begin the final work of Judgment, after which He will lay aside His High Priestly robes and put on His kingly robes and return in unspeakable glory for His saints.
- As they followed Christ in their study of Scripture into the Courtyard as our Sacrifice, past the Laver of Baptism, and into the door of the Holy Place wherein is burning Candlestick of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the Table of Shewbread representative of the Incarnation of the Divine Christ, and the Altar of Incense, the smoke of which that ascended with the prayer of the OT High Priest above the veil into the presence of God as representative of our prayers mingled with the prayers of Jesus by which alone can enter into the ears of the Father...and finally into the Most Holy Place wherein the OT High Priest enter only once a year for the "cleansing of the Sanctuary", they saw the Ark of the Covenant, wherein is the Ten Commandments, and upon discovering the Sabbath commandment, they began to observe the seventh day Sabbath, and a great restoration took place: the pouring out of the Spirit of Prophecy. The gift of prophecy disappeared from the midst of the early Church when God's commandments and doctrines were corrupted by the papacy and the Sabbath was lost sight of...and the principle taught many times in Scripture that whenever God's Law is disregarded He withholds His Spirit of Prophecy had taken effect...but after His Law was restored fully in the Church, He again poured out this prophetic gift in the midst of these Adventists, and they would go after several years of organization to form what is now not so much as a "Church, but a "Movement" which is known as the Seventh-day Adventist church, the "remnant" church which keeps the commandments of God and has the testimony and faith of Jesus Christ.
There are only two women - two churches - in the book of Revelation: the Pure Church and the Harlot Church that claims to be faithful to God, but is nothing but an unfaithful, Satanic Whore who controls the great Babylonian system of false worship across the globe, from which God is calling out His people. The SDA Church is the only church that fits the Biblical prophetic criteria as the "remnant" church:
- Next to catholicism, the SDA Church is the only legitimate worldwide church, with operations in almost every single country on the planet.
- It was the first organized church to hold as the official doctrine that Christ's return is very soon, which idea is now accepted without question by other churches who've long since abandoned the whole "post-thousand years Second Coming" idea. You didn't know the SDA church was the first, did you?
- It organized as an official Church denomination after - not before as did all the other Protestant churches - but after 1798 when the 1,260 years expired and when these Adventists began to organize as movement during the Great Religious Awakening.
- It preaches the 3 Angels Messages found in Revelation 14:6-12, which is the last warning message to our world before Jesus comes.
- It preaches correctly the identity of the Beast, the Name of the Beast, the Number of the Beast, the Mark of the Beast, and also the antithesis to the Mark of the Beast, the Seal of God.
- By virtue of Scripture, it exposes the false ideas of other unBiblical teachings which are carryovers from the time when the false doctrines of papal Rome prevailed, as well as new false ideas by misguided Protestants...ideas such as the "immortal soul"; "the state of the dead"; "eternal torment"; forbidden unhealthy diet and lifestyles that are practiced as "freedom in Christ"; the attack on the voracity of God's Word by virtue of false MSS and translations; consolidated by God's guiding gift of the Spirit of Prophecy from the wildly speculative and wide ranging scientific ideas of the 19th century into one authoritative message a body of information which was used to pioneer what is now a global education and health system that operates unmatched except by the papacy.
- Teaches that those who love God and have His spirit will desire to live their lives in harmony with God's commandments, without which no one will enter the kingdom where sin - the transgression of the law - will not enter at any time for all eternity.
As one man, I can only use my voice to repeat God's warning to a dying world: "Come out of her, My people, that you be not partakers of her sins and recieve not of her plagues."
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ScottA
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No...that is a misunderstanding of what salvation is and what has been given:
We become (In the twinkling of an eye) One with God, in God. It is no longer we who live, but God who lives in us. We are no longer separate. We "enter in" to the immortality of God, becoming the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, I am. We pass from death to life. We are no longer sheep following a Shepherd, but brothers, the children of God, existing in His spirit, perfect. This is the end of all that is written.
On the contrary, sheep who only hear His voice, though they may be called by His name and follow Him; they have not entered in, nor He in them. These [like sheep] can still go astray. They are not those who have been born again of the spirit of God. No one who is born of God would say, "I am me and God is God, and I can still fall."...for such a one is no longer himself, no longer separate, but One.
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What do you mean by "condemnation"?
Because it can mean "to denounce beliefs or actions" or "judge another as eternally lost". There's a diff.
Yes, an AGREEMENT.
Teaching that a baby has AGREED, is false.
Scripture clearly teaches, the INDIVIDUAL who AGREES by CONFESSING BELIEF, is the SAME who WILL BE SAVED.
Babies KNOW NOTHING of God, of Christ. They CONFESS NOTHING.
Surely you don't believe an Individual CONFESSES BELIEF, IN something they KNOW NOTHING of..?
Yet, BOL, (a self-described authorative teacher of Catholicism) teaches AT his BABY "WATER" baptism, he received the Holy Spirit...clearly having STATED; He Knew NOT, or REBEMBERED NOTHING, of being baptized with "WATER".
Scripture Teaches... Acts 16...of men who TURNED to BELIEF....AND so ALSO did their FAMILY turn to BELIEF....AND BECAME SAVED and QUICKENED in their spirit.
THE KEY WORD again, as is throughout Jesus' teaching IS "Confessing "BELIEF", as a Condition to BECOME SavED and QuickenED.
When the Master of a household hears and BELIEVES, and Confesses BELIEF .... AND the household hears and BELIEVES and Confesses BELIEF....the Master and the Household "THEN" are SAVED.
BOL teaches A BABY WATER Baptism, IS THE TIME when a BABY RECEIVES the "HOLY Spirit"....
Yet EVEN the Catholic Doctrine, (as do some other Christian Denominations) teaches AFTER the baby is "grows out of infancy to childhood....are TAUGHT ABOUT God and Christ Jesus....THEY "THEMSELVES" participate in a PLANNED CEREMONY, whereby "THEY" "THEMSELVES" ... CONFESS their BELIEF....and THAT CONFESSION, being heartfully True.....IS WHEN, they become QuickenED with the Holy Spirit......(NOT at a BABY Water Baptism, they are completely unaware of)....
You should be familiar with THAT ceremony...
Called "Confirmation", and the meaning thereof.
Praying for an other to BECOME Saved and Quickened...you seem to Forget requires them to HEAR what you PRAY they will ACCEPT.
Don't you WANT the WHOLE world to BE SAVED? Do you Pray for that? Do you then teach because you Prayed for that...It has Occurred? <--- Because that is what is no different than saying because a man Prays his household will be SAVED....it instantly occurs.
That is a FALSE accusation! Numerous of my Posts EXPRESSLY state out of my mouth that FAITH IS A GIFT!
Most precisely FAITH is a GIFT, given in Measures to ANYONE, who is HEARING THE WORD OF GOD. And WHY the Scripture teaches FOR THE Saved and Quickened TO open their mouths and SPEAK the Word of God to ALL THE WORLD.
And Why the Scripture teaches...
Romans 10:17
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
What BABY HEARS the word of God at a Catholic baby water baptism....and thus has GAINED their first measure of FAITH....but yet ARE "supposedly" (BY BOL's teaching)...
Have Receive FULL FAITH-FULLNESS...without having HEARD the Word of God?
The Real confession at a baby water baptism is of the parents confessing THEY will raise that baby HEARING the Word of God...and it is WHILE that baby is growing and hearing, that baby IS "gaining measures of faith"...
AND WHEN that growing child's gift of Increased of Faith, reaches a point the Child himself (or adult, or anyone).... is prepared IN KNOWLEDGE "AND" FAITH....he is prepared to make A ONE TIME (heartfelt....(NOT MINDFUL) FOREVER CONFESSION of His BELIEF in God and Christ Jesus......AND THEN, receive the Holy Spirit.
That's great, to quote a Scripture you promote as APPLICABLE to you and your household.
But do not dismiss, Jesus' teaching, that He came to cause DIVISION...even down to those IN ONE HOUSEHOLD. That (biological, natural brothers and sisters and husbands and wives)...WILL NOT ALL BELIEVE or CONFESS Belief...and themselves DIVIDED.
Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
As a head of the household, you are appointed to SPEAK the Word of God....YET every individual member OF your household must make their OWN freewill Choice to Confess heartfelt BELIEF....or Not.
Parents making a PROMISE to Raise their children up in the Doctrine of Catholicism...
IS NOT Gods Established WAY for one to receive the Holy Spirit.
Glory to God,
Taken
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I've already directed you to one of the most authoritative sources on papist abuse, ex-papal Psychologist Richard Sipe, one who is in a position to speak authoritatively on the issue moreso than most - who says that six percent of all priests have acted out sexually with minors.Simply and completely utterly not true....which....once again....makes it hard to take you serious. You write a lot of words but don't back them up with facts.....
Show me reliable statistics that prove that Catholic priest abuse at a higher rate than Protestant ministers.
Mary
You can't provide such statistical analysis about Protestants because the severity of the problem is not anywhere near the level that would warrant the establishment of similar system where psychologists would treat Protestant ministers for their "problem" in such a way as to determine such findings as Sipe has determined.
You're asking me to prove a negative - that ministers don't offend as often as priests. I'm asking you to prove they do, which you can't...not by statistics, not by media coverage, not by $$$ paid out in victim compensation, etc. Hit pieces by anti-Protestants and pseudo-Protestant orgs like Billy Graham's outfit are hardly any basis for real data, y'know, they're all just a bunch of hacks bending over backwards to get Christians to join the ecumenical soup
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Scriptures that I choose to Read, reread, cross reference, study, reread, then Ask God for His Understanding for the specific Scriptures I have given diligent effort to learn about....YES...I trust the Understanding God gives me.
Glory to God,
Taken
That doesn't answer the question. Does your religion forbid praying for others? Once again, "Praying to Our Blessed Mother is no different than you asking your own mother to pray for you. Is that worshipping your mother?" There is only one answer, and the answer is no. My question exposes the absurdity of your objection. Asking someone to pray for you DOES NOT EQUAL WORSHIP, contrary to what many Protestants think.
1 Tim 2:1-2 – because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul’s teaching about Jesus as the “one mediator,” Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?
1 Tim 2:3 – because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator. Our participation does not impinge on the sufficiency of Christ, but made possible because of it.
1 Tim. 2:5 – therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).
1 Cor. 3:9 – God invites us to participate in Christ’s work because we are God’s “fellow workers” and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe “fellow workers” is “sunergoi,” which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.
Again, this does not impinge on the sufficiency of Christ, but we are fellow workers because of it.
2 Cor. 6:1 – “working together” (the Greek is “sunergountes”) with him, don’t accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.
So your remark, "Wouldn’t that be like saying Christ is not sufficient, that he can’t handle our needs, that he needs help?" is absurd. Christ doesn't "need" our help, He invites our participation because He loves us.
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