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Featured The Church The Papacy Says You Should Join

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Phoneman777, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    There are only two choices for the Christian: the one choice is to believe as this wonderful statement from the Review and Herald, Dec. 15, 1885, testifies about the relevancy and role of Scripture:

    "The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this Holy Word will be in harmony. Our own views and ideas must not control our efforts. Man is fallible, but God's Word is infallible...Let us meet all opposition as did our Master, saying, "It is written." Let us lift up the banner on which is inscribed, The Bible our rule of faith and discipline".

    The other choice is to follow the philosophy of the papacy:

    "Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the church ever did, happened in the first (actually, it was the third) century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed to Sunday...not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the church's sense of it's own divine power...People who think the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become Seventh-day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy." -- St. Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995
    A warm thank-you to the papacy for their endorsement :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
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  2. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Boy - Joseph Goebbels had NOTHING on you SDAs when it comes to fabricating history.
    Time for a Bible lesson . . .

    First of all - NOWHERE does the Bible tell is that the Bible is our "Sole creed" or "Sole bond of union".
    This is a doctrine and precept of MEN in the 16th century - and you know what Jesus said about the doctrines and precepts of men that try to usurp the Word of God (Matt. 15:9).

    No - the Bible itself tells us that Christ's CHURCH is our final Authority on earth (Matt. 16:18-19. Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

    Now - as to the quote from the St. Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995 - this is an OPINION, not a Church teaching. YOUR problem is that you never do your homework. Instead, you post secondary sources and hearsay as your "evidence".

    Finally, as to the Sabbath - we learn from Scripture that the NT Church gathered on FIRST day of the week - the "Lord's Day" - Sunday (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:2, Rev. 1:10).

    This is what Paul wrote - under the inspiration of the HOLY SPIRIT - about people like you SDAs who judge people on the basis of Sunday worship:
    Col 2:16-17
    Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a SABBATH day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in CHRIST.


    Your arguments are petty and un-scriptural . . .
     
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  3. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    I'll remind you that it was after the PAPAL JESUITS the Nazi regime of Hitler modeled its SS, not SDAs - a most unwelcome truth to papists, is it not?
    False. Isaiah is clear that whatever is spoken by men must conform to the Word of God (Isaiah 8:20 KJV). You papists insist that "tradition" is higher than the Word of God, and we all know what Jesus said about making "tradition" stand above the Word of God, right? (Matthew 15:1-9 KJV). This passage is an absolute perfect description of the error you papists practice.
    You are twisting Scripture to suit the desires of your apostate church. No where does the Bible state that the church is the final authority - it is the Body. JESUS CHRIST and HIS WORD are the final authority.

    I am aware that you think the pope is "Jesus Christ hidden under the veil of flesh" and use that as part of the basis for justifying your blasphemous beliefs, but that is false. The pope is an ordinary sinner in need of the same grace as the rest of us.
    Once again, whatever exposes your apostate church as the papal Antichrist that it is, you argue "opinion" or "poetic language" or "not sanctioned church doctrine". Then why didn't church authorities immediately censure/excommunicate those responsible for this "heresy", Dead Bread? For the same reason the church does not hand over your pedophile papists child predators to the police, Dead Bread: the church APPROVES of such demonic beliefs and practices. [/QUOTE]
     
  4. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    I just love it when RCCers use Scripture in their attempt to refute Sola Scriptura. Self defeating.
     
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  5. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    I see cats, pigeons, worms escaping, and a spotty fan. Gotta love it.
     
  6. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    And I love it when ignorant anti-Catholics accuse Catholics of things without providing any proof.

    Show me where Scripture supports Sola Scriptura.
    Chapter and Verse, please . . .
     
  7. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    You can stick to the topic without getting hot under the collar...

    2 Timothy 3:15-17 NASBS
    [15] and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; [17] so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
     
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  8. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you keep regurgitating this nonsense - but so far have FAILED to provide me with even ONE example, Einstein . . .
    And this is yet another of your big fat SDA LIES.

    NOWHERE does the Church place Tradition ABOVE Scripture.
    I openly challenge you to provide me with ONE official teaching from the Catholic Church that states a Tradition is "higher" than the Word of God.
    WRONG.

    The Bible clearly states that His CHURCH has the FINAL earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19. Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

    Jesus stated repeatedly that WHATEVER the Church ordained on earth would also be ordained in Heaven.
    I suggest you R*E*A*D those verses, Einstein . . .
    Face it - you got BUSTED again using secondary sources and hearsay as "evidence" and it angers you.
    Grow up Phoneyman - and do your homework . . .
     
  9. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    This speaks to the importance of Scripture and that it is PROFITABLE.
    NOWHERE does it say that it is our SOLE Authority.

    Try again . . .
     
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  10. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    Yes, it's so important that it's sufficient...
    2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASBS
    [16] All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; [17] so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

    What else is needed? After all, it is God's Word in written form.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
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  11. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is the WRITTEN Word of God. It does not encompass the ENTIRE word of God.

    John said that if everything had been written about what Jesus did and said – the world couldn’t contain the books written about it (John 21:25). And you can quote 2 Tim. 2:16-17 all day long – and it STILL won’t say what you are trying to make it say. Namely, that the Scriptures are our SOLE Authority.

    This is a foolish notion that would condemn to hell countless people in the first few hundred years of the Church who didn’t have the Bible. There were DOZENS of other Books and writings that were considered to be “Scripture” before the Church declared the Canon in the 4th century. Some of these include the Epistles of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, The Protoevangeium of James, the Gospel of Peter, etc. And NOT exposed teverybody waso every Letter – so HOW could they be their “sole” Authority”?

    While the Scriptures ARE spoken of as being Authoritative - the CHURCH is the ONLY entity spoken of in the NT as the final Authority on earth (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23, Acts 15:28).
     
  12. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    Sure, but it encompasses that which God has chosen to reveal to mankind.
    Sole authority are your words, not mine. I would say Scripture is the Ultimate Authority in Ecclesiastical/Soteriological/Eschatological etc. matters. So if there is a contention, the Scriptures are the authority to look to.

    Again sole authority are your words, I had said sufficient. Is word twisting what your denomination teaches you?
    Before the Jewish New Testament, they had the Jewish Old Testament the exact Scriptures 2Tim 3:15 is referring to...

    And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    The Jews had their Canon long before us Johnny-Come-Latelys showed up lol.

    Again while using Scripture to prove the importance of the Church while simultaneously downplaying Scripture as our highest authority only shoots yourself in the foot.

    Without Scripture you can't make a case, so your argument falls flat on it's face.
     
  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Well 2 Timothy 3:16,17 covers every aspect of Christianity. Thus Scripture becomes our sole authority for both doctrine and practice. The designation of "the Word of God" gives it the authority that is unlike any other.

    DOCTRINE = GOSPEL TRUTH + BIBLE TRUTH
    REPROOF = REBUKE OF EVERY FALSE TEACHING
    CORRECTION = REBUKE OF EVERY FALSE PRACTICE
    INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS = THE WHOLE CHRISTIAN LIFE
    PERFECT MAN OF GOD = COMPLETE OR MATURE AS A CHRISTIAN
    THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS = THE WHOLE GAMUT OF GOOD WORKS WHICH GOD APPROVES

    So what more would any Christian need (unless they have itching ears)?
     
  14. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Since when are YOUthe one who gets to define what doctrineis?? Or reproof or instruction in righteousness??

    These are YOUR definitions – but they may not be the definitions of the Elm St. Baptist Churchdown the road or any of the other tens ofthousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that all teach different doctrines.

    2 Tim. 3:16 clearly shows that Scripture is Authoritative. It DOESN’T show by any stretch of the imagination that it is our SOLE Authority.

    As I have repeatedly shown Jesus Himself gave His CHURCH the Supreme Authority – that WHATEVER it binds or losses on earth will also be bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-22).
     
  15. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Hi P,
    I won't be joining this debate because I have my own doubts.

    But could I ask you this....
    Why is it so important to you what day we worship?
    I understand that you believe we're not obeying the 3rd commandment.
    Is it because you think we're lost?
    What?
     
  16. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Really??

    Tell me – where does the Bible state which Books belong in it? Where is the revealed??
    This truth was revealed to Christ’s CHURCH – and NOT in Scripture.
    At the Last Supper, Jesus told His Apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church to ALL Truth(John 16:12-15). He said NOTHING of them finding the answers in Scripture– which hadn’t even been written yet.

    Scripture is Authoritative, yes – but NOT the “sole” or even “ultimate”Authority. YOU are making claims for Scripture that Scripture doesn’tmake for itself. In 2 Thess. 2:15, Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, places Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture. Was he lying??
    No, I’m making the case that the Scriptures that YOU claim are our “ultimate”Authority make this claim about the CHURCH - and not the Scriptures. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot . . .
     
  17. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    There you go again, denying reality. I already posted the quotes with citations in an earlier post and you know full well, so you are guilty of LYING to the community - papists are absolutely superb liars, so it's no surprise. But, no matter, Dead Bread, because ANYONE who wants proof that Hitler's SS modeled itself after the Jesuits can find in less than a minute if they want to, regardless of your weak attempts to hide what anyone who bothers to check it out already knows.
    Dead Bread, your continued denial of papal doctrine is disgusting. If the papal statements we provide you are truly "unofficial" as you claim and instead are "poetic" and "opinion", then why does your church tolerate all this "heresy"? Could not the pope immediately end this epidemic of "heretical writings" by "misguided clergy" by threatening with immediate excommunication anyone who preaches heresy? BECAUSE IT AIN'T HERESY, YOU SILLY IGNORANT PAPIST! It's tolerated because it's what the papacy stands for!

    "Of course the change (from Sabbath to Sunday) was her act ..... and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." (signed by H.F.Thomas, Chancellor for Cardinal Gibbons, in a letter dated Nov. 11, 1895)

    "Sunday is our MARK of authority ... the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." (Catholic record of London, Ontario, Sept. 1, 1923)

    Once again, you papists demonstrate your excellent ability to ignore Scripture which exposes your lies and twist Scripture to support the same. These verses apply to the church's administrative authority, not authority over God's Word or God Himself, as claimed by the papal Antichrist you serve! Authority over the affairs of the people, administration, discipline of backsliders, etc., but NOT over what God has firmly established as the final authority over His church. Isaiah exposes your entire organization as fraudulent, because "they speak not according to this Word" (The Word of God, not the word of your pedophile pope) which proves "there is no light in them".

    "The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ. The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." (Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary)

    Got that, Dead Bread? Get your copy of this dictionary and look for the papal Impramatur stamped on it which indicates "no heresy up in here" and see for yourself how pathetically foolish it is to place undying faith in an organization which thinks they have a right to operate above the Word of God...and behind little boys.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  18. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Because the day upon which we worship identifies us with either the Creator or the god of this world. The Beast is the papacy and the Mark of the Beast is Sunday sacredness:

    "Sunday is our Mark of authority. The church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact."

    The prophecies are clear that the final issue is about WORSHIP and when laws are passed forcing us to worship, it is then that the Christian will have to choose between obedience to God's law or satanic papal law.

    In the apocalyptic Psalm 94 which describes Earth's condition just before the Second Coming, we read "shall the throne of iniquity (lawlessness) have fellowship with Thee; he (the one who sits on that throne) that frameth mischief by a LAW?"

    In the third of Revelation's Three Angels Messages, those who take the Mark of the Beast are CONTRASTED with those who do not by the words, "Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they who KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and have the faith of Jesus." It stands to reason that if those who DO NOT get the Mark of the Beast are obeying God's law...those who take the Mark are BREAKING God's law.

    A satanic religious law caused Daniel to be thrown to the lions.
    A satanic religious law caused the Three Hebrew Worthies to be thrown into the fiery furnace.
    A satanic religious law caused Esther and Israel at large to be threatened with extermination.

    And in the last days, the ONE AND ONLY OF GOD'S TEN COMMANDMENTS which begins with the word "Remember" Satan has led everyone to believe it is the one that we are at liberty to forget. Make no mistake, Sunday's coming!
     
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  19. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    :D
     
  20. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    Funny how you cried when the OP jabbed at the RCC but then you turn around and this??? And then you expect us to goose step into our nearest pedophilia ladened RCC. Yes, your so called 'Mother Church is not so squeaky clean either. Admit it.

    Nope. Jesus had already set the example by His time, repeatedly saying, "IT IS WRITTEN" or Matthew 5:18 (KJV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (Joh 16:12-13 KJV)

    Those were things the disciples couldn't bare at that time, but were revealed to them after the resurrection, which things we have WRITTEN in the Epistles of theirs.

    No he was not lying, that tradition was the teaching of the Prophets and Apostles...not this kind, which Rome espouses...

    Mark 7:13 (KJV) Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

    Yes, God's Word gave commands concerning the Church, thus the Church is to obey Scripture!
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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