The Wonders of the kingdom of God.

[marks]

You do see it in Hebrews 1:1-3 “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; [3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Hi ViJ,

Yes. I do. In the very way Scripture, which I hold to be true, describes.

All this pre-occupation with "outside" when the true glory in this life, in this age, is inside.

The true glory is a life and mind conformed to Christ. Shining comes later. But many want it now. Many think that they can have whatever they want. Well, that's true, but only in the new creation. And to separate the old from the new, yes, we still need the Bible.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

the heck of it is, imo any fantasy or at least imagination one might have about say where they would like to be in a year? Totally doable with imagination alone imo. As long as the fantasy is doable, bam do it!

Ha! I know where I would LIKE to be in a year IRL...THAT is fantasy because, how many of "our" plans actually come to fruition? Not many of mine. We do not know what will come in the next second much a year. But, God knows and if we pray HIS will, we already know (or should know) that the prayer is already answered.... IMHO - that is reality.

 

[bbyrd009]

("23" = "2 or 3")

 

[Nancy]

("23" = "2 or 3")

"Don't think I'm all in this world "
Do you want to be of this world?? If only a part of us is here...where is the other part?

 

[bbyrd009]

in this age,

that's an "eternity" yeh?

 

[charity]

I thought it just might be time to have a very positive praisefull thread about the wonders of a walk in the Spirit.

Hello @Episkopos

I am going through your entries, to try to understand your reasoning.

'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
.. who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
.. For what the law could not do,
.... in that it was weak through the flesh,
...... God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,
........ condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
.. who walk not after the flesh,
.... but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;
.. but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.'
(Romans 8:1-5)

* I have read that the words highlighted in red (above) are not in the original manuscripts: and are a repetition of what is said further down in this passage, highlighted in italics, which was in the original. The inclusion of those words in verse one, where they were not intended to be, take from the statement of truth which is made in that verse: which is, 'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.' It is a categorical statement: complete and absolute; of which there should be no doubt. The addition of the words, 'who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit,' introduce a conditional element by implication, which was never intended in that context: therefore taking away the ground of confidence intended by the writer.

'For to be carnally minded is death;
.. but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
.... Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
...... for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
........ So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh,
.. but in the Spirit,
.... if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.'
(Romans 8:6-9)

'And if Christ be in you,
.. the body is dead because of sin;
.... but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,
.. He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies
.... by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.'
(Romans 8:10-11)

Episkopos:-
We have this treasure in earthen vessels.

* You have not told us what that 'treasure' is, that you are referring to here @Episkopos.

Episkopos:-
We are to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.

* This is a reference to Matthew 6:33:-

'But seek ye first the kingdom of God,
.. and his righteousness;
.... and all these things shall be added unto you.'
​

* This is part of the sermon on the mount: and in this chapter a 'treasure' is referred to:-

'Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth,
.. where moth and rust doth corrupt,
.... and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,
.. where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt,
.... and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
...... For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.'
(Matthew 6:19-21)

* In reference to this verse you say:-

Episkopos:-
Now this a miraculous place to be...so far away from our routine worldly lives so that few can believe we have access to so much from God. But God gives us His grace.

* The verses you have quoted say nothing about the believer being 'in Heaven', only His 'heart' (or affections), because his 'treasure' is there.
* This kingdom will also come down out of heaven to the earth. That is why it is said, in the Lord's prayer, 'Thy Kingdom come'.

Episkopos:-
All of us is what He asks from us to see this realm is faith. To enter in costs us everything, of course. But we can still taste and see the goodness of the Lord for ourselves...as a free gift of grace from Him.

* I don't see anything here that reflects the truth, Episkopos.
* It was He who gave ALL for us.
* It is He who has bought us with a price: it has cost us nothing.
* 'Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' ( Hebrews 11:1)

Episkopos:-
The kingdom of God is full of light. A shimmering light that reflects the glory of God. It is a dimension just beyond our human sight. It is in another realm; the realm of the Spirit.
In the Spirit we see things that are not visible to the human eye. We see things on people, angels at times and whatever comes into that realm; that heavenly place.
To walk in that place we are clothed with His light...as one is dressed in clothing. Paul calls this the "armour of light" or the full armour of God. It is from that anointing that we walk victoriously in this world...far beyond the reach of it's lusts and desires. In the Spirit we have a refuge, a sanctuary of peace and glory.
Few have experienced this walk as it is going very far to even consider such a place. A human faith can't even consider it as a possibility. No, it is a surprise that such a kingdom exists at all. But this is what it means to be "in" Christ. To be where He is. To have fellowship with Him and the Father.
This is what ALL who seek the Lord should desire to enter into. That place where He dwells...where His name is...where His authority rules and His presence fills all things...

* Everyone who is born from above walks 'in the spirit', for the Spirit of God is within Him. It is not a matter of 'feeling' or of 'experiences' but of 'faith' - in what God has testified to in His Word.

* I have responded to this in #31 & #39 : but will add, that every believer is, 'in Christ': for God places him there; it is not something that can be done by the flesh, only God can do that.

'For ye see your calling, brethren,
.. how that not many wise men after the flesh,
.... not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;
.. and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
.... And base things of the world,
...... and things which are despised, hath God chosen,
........ yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in His presence.
But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus,
.. Who of God is made unto us wisdom,
.... and righteousness,
...... and sanctification,
........ and redemption:
.......... That, according as it is written,
............ "He that glorieth, let Him glory in the Lord."
(1 Corinthians 1:26-31)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

What of God's precious promises? We can walk with the Lord and see what He sees through HIS eyes..in His light we indeed see light. Is that a popular thing to consider? Is this in any way encouraging to those who seek for the rest that is the menoucha of God? And what of the Shechina glory?*
To be raptured into His presence! There is a lot of talk about a future physical translation (rapture) into His presence. But the bible speaks much more about a spiritual rapture into a walk in His presence. Are we not to seek this first?

What of that? Is this not something to glory in?

So I will glory in the greatness of His grace to us. To partake of His holiness. To experience as He experienced...to walk in His footsteps...not just historically but also in real time by the Spirit.

Hello @Episkopos,

I join you in glorying in God's grace towards us, through Christ Jesus His beloved Son, I glory too in the knowledge that in Christ Jesus we partake of His holiness. However I do have questions to ask of you,

* What promises are you referring to exactly?
* We have already entered into rest, in Christ Jesus our risen Lord.
* Where does the Bible say that we are raptured into His presence now Epikopos?
* Why do you refer to the Shekina glory in relation to our present experience?
* How can that last paragraph work out in experience? What does the Bible have to say about that?

'This I say then,
'Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
.. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh:
.... and these are contrary the one to the other:
...... so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
.. Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
.... Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath,
...... strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
........ of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past,
........... that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,
.. longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance:
.... against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
.. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
.... Let us not be desirous of vain glory,
...... provoking one another, envying one another.'
(Galatians 5:16-26)

* Crucifying the flesh is done by 'reckoning' ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:11)

'Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
.. but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
.. that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
.. but yield yourselves unto God,
.... as those that are alive from the dead,
...... and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you:
.. for ye are not under the law,
.... but under grace.'

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Waiting on him]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,
.. longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance:

So here we have what walking in the Spirit produces, as per God!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It is so odd to me that what encourages and helps me could make others so angry.

It's like...a man says, come and eat steak, and others get angry and hold up a McDonald's burger and say, how dare you claim there is anything more or better than this hamburger, this IS steak! I just don't get it, what encourages me and causes me to press forward to grab for that for which I have been grabbed, makes others mad and trips them. And then they say, from their place on the ground, look out for that rock I tripped over, don't go that way! Don't even run, get down on the ground with me and be safe and keep all you have!

I'm rambling at this point I guess, but I think I see...nonencouragement being disguised as encouragement, and encouragement being labeled as nonencouragement.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Its like...a man saying, hey guys, I've seen the land God told us to go and take and you're not going to believe it, its beautiful, and the light there is extraordinary, lets press forward to take it!

And then others say, aww, I'm really sad, I thought I was already in everything God had for me, and if I don't already have everything God has for me, I question if I even belong to Him. And then others come in to pat them on the back and say, oh don't listen to that man, little sweeties, he's trying to get you killed, there is nothing more God wants to give you, you have it all, so just fold your hands and sleep for a bit. Don't run or strive or press forward or that man will be the death of you. Just stay where you are, with us.

 

[charity]

It is so odd to me that what encourages and helps me could make others so angry.

It's like...a man says, come and eat steak, and others get angry and hold up a McDonald's burger and say, how dare you claim there is anything more or better than this hamburger, this IS steak! I just don't get it, what encourages me and causes me to press forward to grab for that for which I have been grabbed, makes others mad and trips them. And then they say, from their place on the ground, look out for that rock I tripped over, don't go that way! Don't even run, get down on the ground with me and be safe and keep all you have!

I'm rambling at this point I guess, but I think I see...nonencouragement being disguised as encouragement, and encouragement being labeled as nonencouragement.

Its like...a man saying, hey guys, I've seen the land God told us to go and take and you're not going to believe it, its beautiful, and the light there is extraordinary, lets press forward to take it!

And then others say, aww, I'm really sad, I thought I was already in everything God had for me, and if I don't already have everything God has for me, I question if I even belong to Him. And then others come in to pat them on the back and say, oh don't listen to that man, little sweeties, he's trying to get you killed, there is nothing more God wants to give you, you have it all, so just fold your hands and sleep for a bit. Don't run or strive or press forward or that man will be the death of you. Just stay where you are, with us.

Hello @stunnedbygrace,

I think I understand what you are saying, without knowing who actually did what, when, and to whom.

* The letters of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians and 2 Timothy, describe what is ours, 'in Christ', as members of the Church which is His Body, 'the fulness of Him that filleth all in all', on the doctrinal basis of Romans 5:12-8:39. It is all there! The work has been done! It is for us to acknowledge it, and live in the light of it, in love and praise to God the Father, by Whose will it has been achieved, through the sacrificial work of Christ Jesus His Son. We, as members of the Body of Christ, are a new creation in Christ Jesus. - Is this not encouragement enough?

* Yet, being flesh, we feel we need to 'feel it', 'see it', 'experience it' in the flesh, in order to have the assurance that it is real. So methods are suggested by some, whereby the flesh can enter into an out of body, 'spiritual' experience, which has the appearance of reaching out to the light, and the glory of heavenly realms, which is pure deception. We are told that by being more holy we will enter into this life, and it is said that this is what is meant by, 'walking in the spirit'!!! yet you will not find these methods and means described or practised in the Bible. - In fact many so called, 'faiths', practice this, with a life of asceticism and self denial to attain unto this higher state of spiritual awareness. It is all of the flesh, fleshly, with the appearance of spirituality.

* Walking in the spirit, is achieved by reckoning on the completeness of the work of Christ, and living in the light of it. On the fact that our sins have been forgiven, that we are presented holy and without blame before Him in Christ Jesus: and that we have been accepted in the Beloved, that we have been redeemed, given the spirit of Sonship, and made meet to partake of the inheritance of the saints in light. That we are indeed COMPLETE in Christ Jesus.

* Living in wonder love and praise, in the knowledge of all these blessings which are ours in Christ, keeps our mind stayed on Him, where He is at God's right hand: and we are able to reckon, as God reckons, that we are there too, in Him, at God's right hand, as near to God the Father as He Himself is. This is what brings joy and peace and all the fruit of the spirit into our lives, which overflows to those around us, thereby bringing glory to God the Father. This is what walking in the spirit is. Would you rather have a fleshly experience which has no ground in truth instead?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That was so bizarre I can't even comprehend what you are saying. You are like...an inspirational speaker with no teeth to me...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How is it that things like being caught up are now "fleshly experiences" and fleshly experience is now holiness...?

 

[charity]

That was so bizarre I can't even comprehend what you are saying. You are like...an inspirational speaker with no teeth to me...

How is it that things like being caught up are now "fleshly experiences" and fleshly experience is now holiness...?

I am sorry to be a disappointment to you, @stunnedbygrace. But I praise God that He will never disappoint you. May you be blessed as you read His Word and praise Him for His amazing grace.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[stunnedbygrace]

My gosh, its so upside down that it makes no sense! And one poster had a childish pique of pouting that God doesn't choose everyone to go and see the land and come back to encourage us. When we are given a gift like that, there should be no pouting because He chose someone else, there should be rejoicing! And there certainly should not be encouraging of a pouting fit as happened in here!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I am going through your entries, to try to understand your reasoning.

'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
.. who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
.. For what the law could not do,
.... in that it was weak through the flesh,
...... God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,
........ condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
.. who walk not after the flesh,
.... but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;
.. but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.'
(Romans 8:1-5)

* I have read that the words highlighted in red (above) are not in the original manuscripts: and are a repetition of what is said further down in this passage, highlighted in italics, which was in the original. The inclusion of those words in verse one, where they were not intended to be, take from the statement of truth which is made in that verse: which is, 'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.' It is a categorical statement: complete and absolute; of which there should be

This strikes me as nonsense. It appears like you want to grab "no condemnation" to make a demand for it as being yours no matter if you follow your flesh or follow (or walk in)the Spirit. You are trying to grab something to prop up your flesh and to use against: if we sow to the flesh we will reap corruption. Its a very lawyerly way of using the word from God as an insurance policy for your flesh when it sets a fire. With all of the riches that are ours in Him, why try to grasp for them apart from Him?? Why not plead for Him to make us stop setting fires instead of trying to find legal loopholes? Is it because we know we intend to keep setting them, or is it because we are convinced He is powerless against the sin in us?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And it's pretty bizarre because at its essence, its saying...God demanded that Israel do righteousness but we have a better deal and don't have to do righteousness. They have been sorely punished but we can do as they did and will not be sorely punished.

The lunatics are running the asylum but they put on a very serious face while they babble insanity and so people think they make complete sense!

 

[charity]

This strikes me as nonsense. It appears like you want to grab "no condemnation" to make a demand for it as being yours no matter if you follow your flesh or follow (or walk in)the Spirit. You are trying to grab something to prop up your flesh and to use against: if we sow to the flesh we will reap corruption. Its a very lawyerly way of using the word from God as an insurance policy for your flesh when it sets a fire. With all of the riches that are ours in Him, why try to grasp for them apart from Him?? Why not plead for Him to make us stop setting fires instead of trying to find legal loopholes? Is it because we know we intend to keep setting them, or is it because we are convinced He is powerless against the sin in us?

'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'
(Romans 8:1)

Hello @stunnedbygrace,

The wonderful knowledge we have been given in this verse is that we who are 'in Christ Jesus' (1 Corinthians 1:30) by the grace of God, and therefore walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, are therefore not subject to condemnation.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[stunnedbygrace]

'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'
(Romans 8:1)

Hello @stunnedbygrace,

The wonderful knowledge we have been given in this verse is that we who are 'in Christ Jesus' (1 Corinthians 1:30) by the grace of God, and therefore walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, are therefore not subject to condemnation.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

What about those who claim they are in Him even while they walk in their flesh? The verse does not say those who are in Him and that's all (though you earlier wanted to argue the rest was added). It says, those who are in Him (who walk not after the flesh). So the clue that we are in Him should be that we do NOT walk after the flesh or fulfill its lusts. But the lunatics running the asylum say: no condemnation for those who are in Him, even IF they walk after the flesh.

 

[Waiting on him]

'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'
(Romans 8:1)

Hello @stunnedbygrace,

The wonderful knowledge we have been given in this verse is that we who are 'in Christ Jesus' (1 Corinthians 1:30) by the grace of God, and therefore walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, are therefore not subject to condemnation.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

John 3:19 KJV
[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


Tecarta BibleThis light spoken of is not something observed with the human eye. It is truth revealed by the Holy Spirit, revealing Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:12-15 KJV
[12] But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. [13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Tecarta BibleAnd angel of light??
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 KJV
[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. [4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


Tecarta Bible
The def of subtilty

Greek: πανουργία
Transliteration: panourgia
Pronunciation: pan-oorg-ee'-ah
Definition: From G3835; adroitness that is (in a bad sense) trickery or sophistry: - (cunning) craftiness subtilty.
KJV Usage: craftiness (3x), subtlety (1x), cunning craftiness (1x).