The Wonders of the kingdom of God.

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Episkopos

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Question: Do I need to feel good about myself when exposed to the truth?

Is it wrong to hate myself and my own ways and weaknesses (actually carnal strengths)?

Isn't it better to judge ourselves now rather than to be judged later by God? If we would depart from iniquity and seek the Lord now....would we not be shown God's pleasure in His gifting of grace?

So to what purpose do we want to feel good about ourselves? Why go after the temporary pleasure of sin...even a deeper sin of being religious....rather than seek the true riches of God that are eternal?
 

Episkopos

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Acts 5:38-39
[38] And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

That is what I mean He gets the victory either way.

I don't follow your reasoning...
What does that have to do with this thread?
 

VictoryinJesus

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I see that your momentary weakness brought out the selfish nature in some on this thread

Her weakness is responsible for bringing out the “selfish nature” in some on this threado_O.

It exposed the motive as something that makes people feel good about themselves...as in...if you feel bad because of the truth then the problem is with the truth.

...o_O:confused:

You have a lot to contribute, Episkopos. Do you not see self justification there in suppressing Nancy to redeem yourself?
 

Nancy

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I see that your momentary weakness brought out the selfish nature in some on this thread. It exposed the motive as something that makes people feel good about themselves...as in...if you feel bad because of the truth then the problem is with the truth. Or worse yet...somebody who is speaking the truth. Much easier to write off! :)

As to walking in the Spirit. My concern is that when people claim to be walking in the Spirit...and yet not walking as Jesus walked by a heavenly power without sin...then what is left to seek the Lord for? nd this is besides the delusional claims we might make that are displeasing to God in and of themselves.
There would be no need to humble oneself and seek God if we thought we were already walking in what Paul sought for..

What I see is that people just want a feel good gospel that serves the fleshly outer emotional part of the human mind. Churches cater to this with emotional services. I would say that most people have fallen into that trap...and many are still there.

But the truth would set us free. To know oneself is to be aware of what we are going after.

If one is walking in the Spirit by just being attentive to the things of God then your claim should be...we are ALL walking in the Spirit.

So then there should be a perfect agreement with everyone seeing we are all in the same miraculous place! :)

Hi Epi,
Not sure where you see selfish natures being brought about. The Word is what I filter every single spiritual thing through and, if I cannot find something that lines up, I must discard it. This is not to say that I would EVER scoff at or downplay another's experience, that is way beyond any of our knowledge, as it is personal.
To me, walking in the Spirit is the same as walking as Jesus did. Not to mention the fruits of the Spirit are evident or they are not. I've got growing to do Epi, as we all do...I do not think we will ever stop learning of and seeking His face - Him who really cannot be fully known.

"Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable." (Ps. 145:3)

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isa. 55:8–9)

"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" (Rom. 11:33–34; cf. Job 42:1–6; Ps. 139:6, 17–18; 147:5; Isa. 57:15; 1 Cor. 2:10–11; 1 Tim. 6:13–16)

"Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand?" (Job 26:14)
xo
 

VictoryinJesus

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I don't follow your reasoning...
What does that have to do with this thread?

What it has to do with the thread and your and my comment(s). What is flesh comes to nothing. What is of Him nothing can overthrow. We don’t have to pick apart each other or be ugly to one another ...we both want the same thing which is exposure to the shining light of the gospel in Jesus Christ.
 

Episkopos

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Hi Epi,
Not sure where you see selfish natures being brought about. The Word is what I filter every single spiritual thing through and, if I cannot find something that lines up, I must discard it. This is not to say that I would EVER scoff at or downplay another's experience, that is way beyond any of our knowledge, as it is personal.
To me, walking in the Spirit is the same as walking as Jesus did. Not to mention the fruits of the Spirit are evident or they are not. I've got growing to do Epi, as we all do...I do not think we will ever stop learning of and seeking His face - Him who really cannot be known fully known.

"Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable." (Ps. 145:3)

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isa. 55:8–9)

"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" (Rom. 11:33–34; cf. Job 42:1–6; Ps. 139:6, 17–18; 147:5; Isa. 57:15; 1 Cor. 2:10–11; 1 Tim. 6:13–16)

"Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand?" (Job 26:14)
xo


Hey Nancy! :) If we still have growing to do...then we may be being LED by the Spirit...as in following Jesus from close.

But I will maintain that being IN Jesus is beyond following Jesus....it is to not lack anything. It is to put on the new man in the perfect humanity walk of Jesus. It is a free gift of grace..that none can improve themselves into.

So I uphold that grace is an instantaneous gift from God. Walking in the Spirit is by grace through faith.

So we never grow into walking in the Spirit. But we grow enough to be able to remain in that place if and when we are invited into that heavenly place.

So then I would say that you are led by the Spirit....which makes you a daughter (son) of God. But unless you are walking in the perfected humanity of Jesus all the time...that is not yet a walk IN the Spirit.

i think this is important because the bible is written to everyone and we can't hold to personal doctrines....since this is what muddies the waters.

Peace
 
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Nancy

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Question: Do I need to feel good about myself when exposed to the truth?

Is it wrong to hate myself and my own ways and weaknesses (actually carnal strengths)?

Isn't it better to judge ourselves now rather than to be judged later by God? If we would depart from iniquity and seek the Lord now....would we not be shown God's pleasure in His gifting of grace?

So to what purpose do we want to feel good about ourselves? Why go after the temporary pleasure of sin...even a deeper sin of being religious....rather than seek the true riches of God that are eternal?

Epi,
Where do you see people here looking for "feel good" about yourself? If we are truly seeking Truth, will God not enlighten us, especially if our hearts are in the right place. A daily prayer of mine : Lord, continue to show me your Truth, no matter how hard some of it might be on this flesh body. So, I'm just trying to understand what you are seeing in the posts of others, going after the pleasures of the flesh here? I see the opposite. BTW-just waiting for Jen to send me something in the mail, Grace already did...once I get the other, will put it in my credit union (don't do banks) and go right to UPS so...you have something to look forward to :)
 
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charity

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A typical half truth.

Look at what the bible actually says...

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows them that are his. And, let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

So we have here the dual polarity of the New Covenant. We make void the New Covenant in our case if we don't depart from iniquity.
Hello @Episkopos,

With respect, if I had need to quote the entire verse I would have done so. If you had read my post you would have realised why I quoted only the words that I did. Your attempt to discredit is so unnecessary, for your opinion of me is of no consequence.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Episkopos

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What it has to do with the thread and your and my comment(s). What is flesh comes to nothing. What is of Him nothing can overthrow. We don’t have to pick apart each other or be ugly to one another ...we both want the same thing which is exposure to the shining light of the gospel in Jesus Christ.


And that is why this isn't about what we feel about the truth. Letting the truth speak of itself is beneficial. Making comments that have to do with personal advantage or not is counter-productive.

So I maintain that what I am testifying of is the truth and fully supported by the word....and experience when one surrenders to God on HIS terms.

It's easy to make a doctrine sound good...but the truth has power..the power of taking you to God to be where He is. If people are not interested in truth like that...then you can lead a human to knowledge, but you can't make him think! :)
 

Nancy

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Hey Nancy! :) If we still have growing to do...then we may be being LED by the Spirit...as in following Jesus from close.

But I will maintain that being IN Jesus is beyond following Jesus....it is to not lack anything. It is to put on the new man in the perfect humanity walk of Jesus. It is a free gift of grace..that none can improve themselves into.

So I uphold that grace is an instantaneous gift from God. Walking in the Spirit is by grace through faith.

So we never grow into walking in the Spirit. But we grow enough to be able to remain in that place if and when we are invited into that heavenly place.

So then I would say that you are led by the Spirit....which makes you a daughter (son) of God. But unless you are walking in the perfected humanity of Jesus all the time...that is not yet a walk IN the Spirit.

i think this is important because the bible is written to everyone and we can't hold to personal doctrines....since this is what muddies the waters.

Peace

Then, if He sees fit to allow me to reach this higher calling, I will gladly accept it. It is not that I haven't been praying about these things like, constantly! Ha! And, He will not shut His children off if we ask. He has taken away all of my outward sin habits...drinking, drugging, smoking and much more. Those were the things, way back when, that I thought would NEVER leave me yet, they were the first things to go and, I now am left with doing a lot of spiritual warfare with thoughts that satan's fiery arrows keep shooting in my mind. Everything gets better spiritually, with myself anyhow, as His knowledge is given to me. I already know that His grace is VERY and FULLY sufficient for me, no matter what, only took me a couple decades to understand it! I have let go of everything not of Him in my life Epi, and now I only wait on Him to fill those now empty spaces with His glory and His plans for me...and He sure is storing His will inside me because that is ALL I want. ♥
 

charity

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In fact, the very thought that one must become more holy to enter into Christ is a bit absurd. There are not various degrees of holiness, like, oh man, I wish I could be as holy as you but I'm only a little bit holy right now. That's absurd. No one seeks or strives for a holiness of their own. They seek to be found in Christ, where holiness is.
And in Him is no sin. How have we come to this place where men claim they are holy while sinning, holy in spite of sinning. Why on earth would you insist on such absurdity? It is nonsensical. And where is taking the lower seat in THAT??
Hello @stunnedbygrace,

You have obviously misunderstood my post, either mistakenly or with purpose, I hope it is the former.

May God's perfect will be done, both in and through each one of us for His Name and glory's sake.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Episkopos

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Epi,
Where do you see people here looking for "feel good" about yourself? If we are truly seeking Truth, will God not enlighten us, especially if our hearts are in the right place. A daily prayer of mine : Lord, continue to show me your Truth, no matter how hard some of it might be on this flesh body. So, I'm just trying to understand what you are seeing in the posts of others, going after the pleasures of the flesh here? I see the opposite. BTW-just waiting for Jen to send me something in the mail, Grace already did...once I get the other, will put it in my credit union (don't do banks) and go right to UPS so...you have something to look forward to :)


Nancy if it was up to me...we would all be walking in a miraculous power with newsmen following our every step...with mass conversions and mass worship times. :)

But we live in a world where God runs the show. And He is after something specific. Our role in all this is to find...even seemingly accidentally...so we wait on the Lord who knows what to go after and when. We live in His timing.

Certain posters were defending you but in the wrong way. Some people just look for a reason to attack what I'm saying...because they don't like the sound of it. They don't like that their doctrines are being squashed.

But I'm a guy who doesn't mind having my views challenged...as long as they are backed up by the word and their own experience.

I do respect both the words of Jesus and the apostles AND experience in people's testimony. I'm unafraid of things that others experience. Much better to get to know someone and what they might be bringing into the body....or not. ;)
 
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Episkopos

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Then, if He sees fit to allow me to reach this higher calling, I will gladly accept it. It is not that I haven't been praying about these things like, constantly! Ha! And, He will not shut His children off if we ask.

Agreed. But God sees better than we do. We are still in the race. It's like being children in our parents' car and we saying ..."are we there yet?"

So I'm with you in an earnest expectation of a return into the Spirit. But I also realize there are things to learn about in being humble and embracing obscurity....so that I seek to lose my life. To be happy to be passed over OR taken up. Either way I'm satisfied with the will of God for me. That's where I'm at right now. Acceptance and praising God for whatever I have...be it big or small..

He has taken away all of my outward sin habits...drinking, drugging, smoking and much more. Those were the things, way back when, that I thought would NEVER leave me yet, they were the first things to go and, I now am left with doing a lot of spiritual warfare with thoughts that satan's fiery arrows keep shooting in my mind. Everything gets better spiritually, with myself anyhow, as His knowledge is given to me. I already know that His grace is VERY and FULLY sufficient for me, no matter what, only took me a couple decades to understand it! I have let go of everything not of Him in my life Epi, and now I only wait on Him to fill those now empty spaces with His glory and His plans for me...and He sure is storing His will inside me because that is ALL I want. ♥

Amen! To be always happy at every stage of the walk....yet knowing there is more and seeking God about it.

His grace is sufficient for us wherever we are. But there is also a fulness of grace that God gives to they whom He wills...for His purpose. And we know His purposes are above our understanding. So we wait on the Lord. :)
 
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marks

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It is so odd to me that what encourages and helps me could make others so angry.
Who is it that is so angry?

Isn't that to ascribe a negative emotion and therefore motive to on the part of whomever you write this? Why do you do that? But if the teaching is false, should we not show it?

Much love!
 

marks

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Its like...a man saying, hey guys, I've seen the land God told us to go and take
Yes, that is the presentation episkopos makes. But what he teaches does not match Scripture.

His teaching is what, again, I'll say, he can correct me if I'm wrong about what he says, my understanding is . . .

All people are forgiven all sins and reconciled to God by Jesus' death, and none will enter eternal torment.

Of "reconciled humanity", some may be born again, and these have then the opportunity to become sufficiently righteous to actually be saved, though I can't figure out exactly what he means by "saved". I think it has to do with gaining to the upper castes.

Of these "born again", some will be the "faithful", and a few of them the "saints".

All humanity will be reformed into this eternal caste system, with, under God of course, the "Saints", then the "Faithful" below them, and everybody else below them.

Rebirth only buys you a ticket into the race, winning the race, through "getting your own righteousness", buys you your spot in the eternal kingdom.

And this is nothing like what the Bible itself states. But then, episkopos considers the Bible a 'dead book', and that he, by virtue of his 'visitations from God', as able to interpet it for the rest of us, and we should all actually listen to him, not the Bible.

Again, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, I'm just summarizing best I can what I understand of his beliefs. I welcome his corrections, should I be misunderstanding him.

I've not been able to do what I've done with so many others on this forum, as we have such wide differences in things we believe. With many people here, I can question about their doctrine, and find that they will explain to me the reasons why they believe as they do. We'll follow it through. We'll have discussions about what we each think, and sometimes I'll change my view, or sometimes another will come to a new understanding.

In this case, Scripture is met with plain meanness.

Has he seen something? I have no idea. I'm not the one to judge others visions or dreams or whatever it may be. I follow the Bible.

Why wouldn't someone who believes what they teach, and believes that it is what the Bible teach, refuse to have a Biblical discussion of their beliefs?

I think that question most likely answers itself. If there is a response in the same manner as previous, it will be to say that I'm too carnal, too whatever, it will be to make it personal. If I even receive an response.

So . . . Why?

Why do I do this?

It's the Truth that actually sets us free. Truth is found in Scripture. These teachings are not. The truth that Scripture teaches is that we already have in Christ these things that episkopos preaches will elude most of us for most or all our lives.

Episkopos is a man who has a billionaire convinced!! that he's poor, and hoping one day to be rich. He has billions of dollars in the bank, but he doesn't believe it's his, so he lives in poverty, and struggle to survive. But he's rich. He's been told over and over, you don't have it, maybe if you work hard enough, maybe if someone taps your shoulder to become rich, but not now, not you, no, you are poor, you are miserable, you are weak, someday, keep trying, keep hoping, work harder, pray harder! keep at the law, your works, your righteousness, your . . . you . . .

We are rich in Christ. That's the truth of Scripture. We already have what we need to live wonderful lives of holiness and righteousness and joy, right now. You don't have to wait. You need only ~

Believe.

Much love!
 

marks

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And then others come in to pat them on the back and say, oh don't listen to that man, little sweeties, he's trying to get you killed, there is nothing more God wants to give you, you have it all, so just fold your hands and sleep for a bit.
Not at all!

You have everything you need for life in Christ right now, by faith you walk in it Right Now.

Who tells you to sleep? I say walk in the faith that we are already overcomers. What is it that overcomes? Even our faith.

Much love!
 
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marks

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We can't go changing the truth because it may be taken wrong. Everything can be taken wrong. Every human reasoning seems to make the bible to be at a loss.

So your reasoning is backwards. You aren't even using the bible. You are relying on your own human reasoning to defend the human reasoning of another.

And it was Jesus who said that not many would be able to enter in. I don't think Jesus was worried on how "we would take it."
The truth is not concerned with people's feelings. But people are.


Are we willing to sacrifice the truth for the sake of good feelings? Among many...absolutely. That's why people today can no longer endure sound doctrine. (that's actually written in the bible)

I'm trying to find an actual response in this that isn't just a put down, can anyone help me?
 

marks

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And this is an outright lie of course. You are just exposing the selfish nature of your own beliefs here. Does the truth serve man as you want it to?...or are we to submit to the truth...as uncomfortable as that may sound? Read the bible for yourself. And try actually quoting what is written therein. You will find all your opinions are just that....human reasoning based on a person feeling good about themselves...at any cost. You have to throw the truth out the window to maintain the priority of feeling good about yourself.

There are plenty of self-help books out there that puff up the outer man. The bible is NOT one of them.

This one too . . . how is this response a discussion? What here isn't meant to bully into submission? To marginalize the target?
 
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marks

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Why can we not just plain agree to disagree, and be graceful and kind to one another on here?

Your conjecture just muddies the water here. You are being obscure and seem to be encouraging the flesh. Since you only use your own quotes and nothing biblical...the shades of meaning seem to be going the wrong way.

What does that even mean...He gets the victory either way??? That is as false as can be. Mostly, God's grace is frustrated by people trying to teach something they don't understand.