Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[GodsGrace]

I belive my opinion remains within the bounds of the Catholic faith, but if I in this post (or any other) contradict the teaching of the Church, then I am in error, and I will submit to the correction of my brethren.



This brings to mind the story of the rich man and the apostles question 'who then can be saved' ?

'With man it is impossible, but for God all things are possible'

So then I will dare to believe all things, hope all things and trust in the mercy of Jesus.




We are indeed all born dead. But even while we were dead, our Lord died for us. HE has redeemed the entire world,
And all judgement is HIS.

Thus regardless of my opinion, or anyone elses, I will accept HIS judgements.... For who can argue with them?

Peace be with you!

Hi PJ
I don't know where you're learning your catholic teachings.
The CC teaches that we are born lost and, due to Mr. Augustine, which we can get into if you wish, the church used to believe that we were all born RESPONSIBLE for Adam's sin as much as he was. The church is trying to get away from this idea...but I doubt it will be able to.

In any case, we are born lost and receive the Holy Spirit at baptism.
The CCC says that we become saved at baptism.

If you check with your local priest, he'll advise you that this is true...
but at some point in a person life this Holy Spirit must be confirmed and accepted in order for a person to be born again.

The CC does believe in being born again...
Ephesians 2:8-9

You won't find the above in the CCC.
Please check with a priest that you trust.

 

[Philip James]

You won't find the above in the CCC.
Please check with a priest that you trust.

GG,

Thank you for your concern. May the Lord bless you abundently.
I am not saying that baptism is unecessary.. Far from it...

I am saying that all judgement belongs to the Son, and I will hope in HIS mercy, not just for myself but for the whole world that HE has redeemed by HIS blood...

679 Christ is Lord of eternal life. Full right to pass definitive judgement on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world. He "acquired" this right by his cross. the Father has given "all judgement to the Son". Yet the Son did not come to judge, but to save and to give the life he has in himself.By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one's works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love.

Peace be with you!

 

[GodsGrace]

GG,

Thank you for your concern. May the Lord bless you abundently.
I am not saying that baptism is unecessary.. Far from it...

I am saying that all judgement belongs to the Son, and I will hope in HIS mercy, not just for myself but for the whole world that HE has redeemed by HIS blood...

679 Christ is Lord of eternal life. Full right to pass definitive judgement on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world. He "acquired" this right by his cross. the Father has given "all judgement to the Son". Yet the Son did not come to judge, but to save and to give the life he has in himself.By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one's works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love.

Peace be with you!

PJ,,,
There's nothing wrong in what you believe...it has nothing to do with salvation economy so I won't concern myself too much with it.

I'll tell you, however, why I even replied to your ideas.
I find that many catholics, of which I used to be one, will advance
teachings which are not really catholic.

Jesus did not change the default,,,as you put it.
The catholic church teaches that we're born lost and must become saved at some point....
and it is NOT at baptism. UNLESS a person is baptized as an adult OR a person "accepts" his baptism in adulthood.

Try reading from CCC 1987 and onward and especially 1991 and 2002.

And as you read, ask yourself if an infant can do what is written, or only an understanding adult.

Blessings to you

 

[Philip James]

There's nothing wrong in what you believe...it has nothing to do with salvation economy so I won't concern myself too much with it

Thank you sister,
And I too will leave it be... Everything is in HIS hands..

Peace!

 

[prism]

Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God.... and to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Peace be with you!

I fail to see that in Scripture or am I to blindly believe some church (any church, trumps Scripture?)...

John 1:12-13 (KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[prism]

according to St Vampire anyway, yeh

ouch! (watch your neck)

 

[bbyrd009]

But why is this a mixed culture and not other stuff?

Bc there is a Boundary Stone that is being violated, nothing whatsoever wrong with an honorable Roman, ok. But no, hell no, we should not be discussing beliefs, and we should not be intermarrying either, bc Catholicism is a nation, and a culture, yes? And many honorable ppl come from Catholicism, too. Catholicism forces ppl into a pseudo at least confession, and Catholics seem to be much better at forgiveness and tolerance of "others," much more inclusive iow? Of course a Pantheist would be, i guess? but i do not say that as a slur, either; I said 'you are elohim' so i dont get all plexed up at defs of Theos-"God" myself. I know Catholics insist on three Gods and you know what? That belief seems as applicable to right now daily life choices as most other beliefs, and imo got nothing whatsoever to do with faith anyway, which is why beliefs arent judged i guess

You can believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and wear tin foil hats for all i care, and for all God cares too. It is your works that will be judged, just like mine. But knowingly adding strife to a situation frustrates works, and this is a mixed culture bc one has no intermediary between me and Christ while the other insists upon one, just like it insists upon everything else, not that prots are not mired in eating the same fruit lol, evabody roun here knows huh

 

[bbyrd009]

ouch! (watch your neck)

I know the wolves will rush in as soon as I leave, not sparing the flock

i mean which part of this sentence is unclear right?
does "St" Ig's pedigree really need to be trotted out to clarify the relationship?
And does that mean he was lost? Well he was rich and famous, what can we say about those who would be rich and those who seek glory?
"As a young man Íñigo had a great love for military exercises as well as a tremendous desire for fame..." https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ignatius_of_Loyola

 

[Philip James]

I fail to see that in Scripture or am I to blindly believe some church (any church, trumps Scripture?)...

John 1:12-13 (KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Your posted scripture confirms the Church's teaching that all men being led to salvation are members...

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth
- St Paul

Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
- Jesus

Peace be with you!

 

[bbyrd009]

Search Results
Featured snippet from the web

Ignatius is a male given name of presumed Latin or Etruscan origin, believed to mean "fiery one" (compare the word "ignite").

jesus can we pls talk about cats, anyone who wants to defend this giy to me, ty

 

[bbyrd009]

Your posted scripture confirms the Church's teaching that all men being led to salvatuon are members...

that is not "the Church's" teaching, sorry, that is merely how you choose to characterize it, see. With Ownership. Christians do not believe that crap, nor any of this intermediary Roman stuff. I mean you no offense, but why are you here? I have great respect as it happens for the current pope, but he is an Enemy King to me too; both can be true. Why are you not in your nation with this, where it would be accepted?

You are here for our heads, see? Do you understand what i mean by that?

 

[Giuliano]

The Catholic Church has NEVER changed a single doctrine in it's 2000+ year history - not ONE.

I've got some questions. One is about male circumcision and about people who observe the sabbath. When the Catholic Church was trying to working out terms of unity with the Coptic Christians, one problem was that the Copts practiced infant circumcision. This was at the Ecumenical Council of Florence. The Papal Bull written by Pope Eugenius IV contains some strong language:

It [The Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes and teaches that the legal prescriptions of the old Testament or the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, holy sacrifices and sacraments, because they were instituted to signify something in the future, although they were adequate for the divine cult of that age, once our lord Jesus Christ who was signified by them had come, came to an end and the sacraments of the new Testament had their beginning. Whoever, after the passion, places his hope in the legal prescriptions and submits himself to them as necessary for salvation and as if faith in Christ without them could not save, sins mortally. It does not deny that from Christ's passion until the promulgation of the gospel they could have been retained, provided they were in no way believed to be necessary for salvation. But it asserts that after the promulgation of the gospel they cannot be observed without loss of eternal salvation. Therefore it denounces all who after that time observe circumcision, the sabbath and other legal prescriptions as strangers to the faith of Christ and unable to share in eternal salvation, unless they recoil at some time from these errors. Therefore it strictly orders all who glory in the name of Christian, not to practise circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation.

Is that still taught by the Catholic Church?

I wonder what Pope Eugenius IV would have to say about Paul who circumcised Timothy? Did they both lose any hope of eternal salvation, or did both Paul and Timothy "recoil at some time" from their error?

How does that Papal Bull issued from an Ecumenical Council match up with Scripture?

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Am I wrong that Paul wasn't that bothered by what day people observed?

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Now if the Pope had said it was a matter of practice only, that would be one thing, but he seems to have made it a matter of doctrine also.

 

[Philip James]

but why are you here?

Beloved,
Havent you been paying attention?
I'm here to issue invites and call my brothers and sisters to the wedding feast!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[bbyrd009]

that is not "the Church's" teaching, sorry, that is merely how you choose to characterize it, see. With Ownership. Christians do not believe that crap, nor any of this intermediary Roman stuff. I mean you no offense, but why are you here? I have great respect as it happens for the current pope, but he is an Enemy King to me too; both can be true. Why are you not in your nation with this, where it would be accepted?

You are here for our heads, see? Do you understand what i mean by that?

Is your daughter free to date my son, marry him, convert to his religion?
Then why do you Catholics want to come here and eat our friends heads? Try to get them to kiss the ring of some usurper? Why?

 

[bbyrd009]

Catholics can be the greatest, ok; but you do an evil thing coming here if you are not careful imo
your beliefs are not Christian, irrelevant though anyone's beliefs likely are; that is not the point. We believe them to be relevant, and they are an actual guide to real life for many. So i tell you, Catholic, that you will be tolerated ok, but why you would want to be somewhere you are tolerated at best i dont get, and for irl dont let that dog fall asleep whatever you do, ok? Bc you make yourself a willing target, see, you are a cracker going into a ward with his voice raised, just asking for it. Ignatius indeed

 

[Philip James]

Catholics can be the greatest, ok; but you do an evil thing coming here if you are not careful imo

Ah, you're breaking my heart brother,

But I love you still!

Pax!

 

[GodsGrace]

Bc there is a Boundary Stone that is being violated, nothing whatsoever wrong with an honorable Roman, ok. But no, hell no, we should not be discussing beliefs, and we should not be intermarrying either, bc Catholicism is a nation, and a culture, yes? And many honorable ppl come from Catholicism, too. Catholicism forces ppl into a pseudo at least confession, and Catholics seem to be much better at forgiveness and tolerance of "others," much more inclusive iow? Of course a Pantheist would be, i guess? but i do not say that as a slur, either; I said 'you are elohim' so i dont get all plexed up at defs of Theos-"God" myself. I know Catholics insist on three Gods and you know what? That belief seems as applicable to right now daily life choices as most other beliefs, and imo got nothing whatsoever to do with faith anyway, which is why beliefs arent judged i guess

You can believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and wear tin foil hats for all i care, and for all God cares too. It is your works that will be judged, just like mine. But knowingly adding strife to a situation frustrates works, and this is a mixed culture bc one has no intermediary between me and Christ while the other insists upon one, just like it insists upon everything else, not that prots are not mired in eating the same fruit lol, evabody roun here knows huh

I don't know if it's because I was Catholic and right now all my friends are catholic, and I know some priests, but I just don't get it.

There must be something I'm missing that others see. Maybe I'm too close to the trees. Maybe it's because I see how dedicated SOME priests are and how HUMAN the others are.

I agree with you that our lives and works will be judged; however, I don't know but Jesus said so Hmself.

Maybe I see how the church is trying to change , and for the better.
Maybe it's too late.

 

[bbyrd009]

Beloved,
Havent you been paying attention?
I'm here to issue invites and call my brothers and sisters to the wedding feast!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

youre here to preach to a foreign choir?
free country i guess, but i mean this is just a recipe for controversy when the inevitable occurs? Do you not see that this amounts to an attack, man. An intrusion. I would, ahh, much prefer to go blow up a Catholic forum with you, where i am the foreigner...ha and the ground is def ripe there eh? yikes. Is there a Catholic forum that anyone at all is even posting on? Anyway whaddya say. @amadeus could do the straight guy maybe

we could pump their numbers like 1000% pretty easy i guess ha. admins wouldnt know what hit em if we're not careful lol

 

[Philip James]

Do you not see that this amounts to an attack, man

Beloved,

If my love for you is an 'attack' , then I shall attack you all the more...

You too ! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace and Love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Ah, you're breaking my heart brother,

But I love you still!

Pax!

you just dont get that saying pax is like waving a rebel flag in a black guy's face here, do ya