Philippians 2:12
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Ernest T. Bass
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Waiting on him
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You are equating grace with work, and that doesn't seem right to me.
God's grace was the saving of Noah's house, and that grace was given through Noah's work of building the ark. Is this what you are asserting? If that's not correct please let me know.
My understanding is that as Noah "found grace in the eyes of the Lord", this is that God would save Noah. God told Noah about the impending flood, and how to survive it. So Noah built his ark.
Just like the Law covenant which has permeated so much of the church.
God offered the Israelites a covenant, a trade off of blessings and cursing in return for obedience or disobedience. And included in that covenant was God's grace to them, the sacrifices. Instead of dying under God's condemnation, God told them what to do to survive.
In each case they trusted Him. Noah built his boat, the priests offered the sacrifices. All work.
Now, God's grace to us, that brings salvation, is God pointing us to Jesus, and the work He did. He offered the sacrifice, not us. He built the Ark, not us. His work, not ours.
If we have to maintain by works the salvation we obtained for free, than we will have our works to say, "I did it. I've kept the works up right up to the end and now I'm here because of me."
But the Lord Alone will be exalted in that day.
And to that end, He declares that salvation is of faith, not of works, so everyone can have equal access, and so that no one can boast and say they did it better than others.
Much love!
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Obedience is not a requirement to obtain God's grace; but it is the sure result of having it. Therefore if you do not have obedience, you can be pretty certain that you don't have grace. But obedience does not procure grace. We only procure grace through simple faith in the shed blood and Person of Christ.
Noah was saved by grace before being saved from the flood. He built the ark because of that grace. Therefore, being saved from the flood was not the grace of the Lord in Noah's life. It was the result of grace; but not the grace itself. If you read it carefully in Genesis, Noah found grace in the Lord's eyes before he built the ark. Grace is defined partially as enabling power. So Noah was able to build the ark because of the grace of God; and was saved from physical death because of that grace, and building the ark. if Noah had died in the flood, he would have still been a recipient of the grace of God; because he found grace in the Lord's eyes before he was saved from the flood.
It is a message song by a Christian rap group called DC talk. Quite popular in its day. It relates the message of Romans 7:14-25 quite nicely as a matter of fact...that those who are living in a lifestyle defined by that passage are very likely not yet saved.
Work out,'Wherefore, my beloved,
as ye have always obeyed,
not as in my presence only,
but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you
both to will and to do of His good pleasure.'
(Philippians 2:12)
Hello there,
This verse creates a problem in the minds of some, because, a) it appears to link salvation with works, and, b) that it appears to teach that we need to be in 'fear and trembling' before God. But, can salvation be earned by good works? & Should we be in 'fear and trembling' before our loving Heavenly Father?
* The first thing we should note, is that the words written, are, 'work out your salvation', and not, 'work for your salvation'. This makes a difference doesn't it? For there is a great difference between working 'for' something, and working 'out' something.
* Salvation is a free gift, given by God to all who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, as the One Who died for their sins. However, once salvation has been 'received', it needs to be worked out. See Ephesians 2:8-10:-
* Paul makes clear that salvation cannot be secured by works. He tells us, 'a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. ... For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.' (Romans 3:21, 22 & 28)'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
* The, 'working out' of salvation, is working out in practice what God has already 'worked in' by His almighty power and grace: by walking before Him as those who are walking in newness of life, by faith; energised by His Spirit, in Christ Jesus. Seeking to please Him, and honour Him in our walk and witness, as those whose sins have been forgiven, and have the hope of eternal life in Christ Jesus their Lord.
* The 'fear and trembling' spoken of in this verse, is a reverential attitude towards God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure: for God's perfect love casts out all fear.
Praise His Holy Name!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Work for,
What's the difference?
We have a whole bunch of persons that feel no works are necessary as we live here on earth.
Seems Jesus has done it all so WE must not do anything...in fact in might be SINFUL to even help Him!
I could post pages of verses on doing good works...
Why this bothers some persons, I do not understand.
Are we supposed to NOT do good works?
Read the verses you've posted a few times...
Maybe it'll sink in that we are TO WORK OUT our salvation...
AND WORK FOR our salvation.
Of course, this work comes AFTER we're saved...
since no amount of work can save us.
Then we do not work for salvation...we work because of it.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
If they believe they are not yet saved, that is correct. We must be born again of the Spirit. However, there are many on this forum who brag they are still sinners and in need of a Savior. I wonder why they don't just let Jesus take away their sin???
There is a sense in which we are all sinners still.
Do you wear tzitzit and tallit and tefilin? These are required by the law; and 1 John 3:4 tells us that sin is the transgression of the law.
Therefore if you do not wear tzitzit and tallit and tefilin 24/7, you are sinning.
See Galatians 6:13 and Galatians 3:22.
See also Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, and Matthew 5:48.
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I would actually contend that he obeyed God because he was saved; that his salvation was by grace before he even built the ark. He was saved by grace regardless of whether his life was spared through the flood: his temporal, physical life was saved because he responded in fear to the grace and providence of the Lord.
We're on the same page for a lot of theology...
James said faith without works is a dead faith...
This is what you said before.
A dead faith means there is no faith.
If there are no works...one could be 99% sure there's a problem with his faith.
I'd say that's being on the same page.
I agree.
Noah was a man of God.
He obeyed God....
I meant that his obedience literally saved him...his life.
When we obey God, we save ourselves in many different ways from the hazards of life.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
There were many things in the Mosaic law that are not eternal laws of God. We are under the eternal laws of agape love, not those in place until Jesus. Galatians 3
I would say, more accurately, not that faith without works is no faith at all...but that one can have a dead faith...mere mental assent...nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith...and also not have works...which is not a living and saving faith.
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