Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[prism]

ONE more time:
YOUR Protestant Fathers would NOT know Christ had it NOT been for the Catholic Church.

This is a fact of history. EVERY ONE of them was a Catholic Churchman who broke away.
YOUR Protestant history has its roots in the Catholic Church - whether YOU like it or not.

I don't follow my so called Protestant Fathers. I follow my Jewish Fathers like Moses, David, Isaiah, Matthew, John, Paul, Peter etc., and of course Jesus.
Your so called "Fathers' like Irenaeus, Chrysosotom, Augustine, Terullian etc., just weren't old enough. lol

 

[Taken]

The Catholic Church brought the Gospel of Christ to the WORLD

LOL gee, who knew the role OF the Apostels was so minuscule, and Jesus forgot to mention The Catholic Church!

UGH!

And how about those Gideon's...having given the Gospel of Christ to over Two BILLION People in the World...No cost or strings or Catholicism attached.

AWESOME!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Giuliano]

@Giuliano

The other was the filoque.
From the Nicene Creed.

This is the important one they do not agree on.
I have heard it said that they do not WANT to agree.
Don't know enough to say.

Here's the debate:

Filioque - Wikipedia

Again I find myself agreeing with the Orthodox: You can't agree to a text and then add something and claim it wasn't changed. I also agree with the Orthodox on the point of doctrine. It likely originated in Spain. Don't take my word for it. American bishops say so, and they're right.

The Filioque: A Church Dividing Issue?: An Agreed Statement

The earliest use of Filioque language in a credal context is in the profession of faith formulated for the Visigoth King Reccared at the local Council of Toledo in 589. This regional council anathematized those who did not accept the decrees of the first four Ecumenical Councils (canon 11), as well as those who did not profess that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (canon 3). It appears that the Spanish bishops and King Reccared believed at that time that the Greek equivalent of Filioque was part of the original creed of Constantinople, and apparently understood that its purpose was to oppose Arianism by affirming the intimate relationship of the Father and Son. On Reccared’s orders, the Creed began to be recited during the Eucharist, in imitation of the Eastern practice. From Spain, the use of the Creed with the Filioque spread throughout Gaul.

It seems that Charlemagne may have imposed the word on the Catholic Church, just as the article at Wikipedia states. The American bishops state, again accurately:

Charlemagne received a translation of the decisions of the Second Council of Nicaea (787). The Council had given definitive approval to the ancient practice of venerating icons. The translation proved to be defective. On the basis of this defective translation, Charlemagne sent a delegation to Pope Hadrian I (772-795), to present his concerns. Among the points of objection, Charlemagne’s legates claimed that Patriarch Tarasius of Constantinople, at his installation, did not follow the Nicene faith and profess that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, but confessed rather his procession from the Father through the Son (Mansi 13.760). The Pope strongly rejected Charlemagne’s protest, showing at length that Tarasius and the Council, on this and other points, maintained the faith of the Fathers (ibid. 759-810). Following this exchange of letters, Charlemagne commissioned the so-called Libri Carolini (791-794), a work written to challenge the positions both of the iconoclast council of 754 and of the Council of Nicaea of 787 on the veneration of icons. Again because of poor translations, the Carolingians misunderstood the actual decision of the latter Council. Within this text, the Carolingian view of the Filioque also was emphasized again. Arguing that the word Filioque was part of the Creed of 381, the Libri Carolini reaffirmed the Latin tradition that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, and rejected as inadequate the teaching that the Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son.

Once again we see how religion and politics should not be mixed.

Edited to insert "not" in the last sentence.

 

[Taken]

I've got news for you - people of all Protestant denominations are leaving as well.

Christianity at large is on a downturn - not just the Catholic Church.
Waas it because they did a "horrible job" the first time around??

Newsflash...prophecy. As the end is nearing A great falling away is not a secret.

So, your news is not news.

Protestants are falling away in Faith.
Catholics are falling away from the Catholic church, in Disgust of their leadership.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Philip James]

Looks like it's happening now with that law passed in NY.
Some parishes will go out of business.
Good.

Careful now sister. They'll start confiscating our property soon enough without us encouraging them...

Pax!

 

[Philip James]

(I hope you can follow this)
The end of v.39 says 'for all whom the Lord calls'. You baptize infants promising them all regeneration...not even knowing if the Lord has called that individual. No wonder so many baptisms 'don't take'.

He did call my children, when He called me.
Have you so little faith in God to answer your prayer for the gift of faith to your children?

Peace!

 

[Grailhunter]

He did call my children, when He called me.
Have you so little faith in God to answer your prayer for the gift of faith to your children?

Peace!

Phillip, just for the fun in it....beliefs....infant baptism....I have no problems baptizing babies....but to think it came from the scriptures or if the early Christians were practicing it....Not there. Mothers have a tendency to be funny that way, this would be a big issue and the type of baptism would have probably been talked about. In the baptisms of the Bible adults are going to get Baptized.... I get it, the Catholic Church is a little funny about Baptisms...sprinkle the water thing. The Holy Roman Empire....you know Charlemagne, when he would conquer, (just calling them goths) he would force those conquered to be baptized. This is part of the world domination/belief control mind set and that is never good. Just a thought...some doctrines and beliefs can be harmful. This one, baptize them ten times, have a blast. Protestants are going to have issues with it because they kinda see baptism as becoming Christian, but that is not the line of demarcation. Some associate baptism with a statement of faith, but that is more tradition than biblical. Some associate Baptism with the forgiveness of sins, but babies have committed no sin. The whole Original Sin thing is malarkey. Still I would be more comfortable with infant dedication and adult baptism.

 

[brakelite]

When did this happen and where??

Read the history of the Waldenses...the Albigenses...the Hussites...the Arians...the Celtic church in Britain...there is a very long list of Christian communities even kingdoms and nations that for centuries suffered under the policies of a Roman tyranny that saw itself as God's avenger against what she considered apostasy and heresy. And this was policy. Not the random extreme practices of a select few. And that policy remains today because those who instigated those actions and encouraged them through their writings and doctrinal demands are still lauded and esteemed by the church. Those teachings have never been renounced, and the men associated with them never rebuked or disowned. Faithful Catholics all.

 

[brakelite]

So the symbol is only in the mind...as you said...

No, I didn't say the symbol was in the mind, I said the change of heart and the real repentance is in the mind. The whole battle between good and evil is fought in our minds. The actual act of Baptism doesn't affect anything, except as a demonstration of what has already taken place in our minds.

 

[Philip James]

The actual act of Baptism doesn't affect anything, except as a demonstration of what has already taken place in our minds.

as they make a pretense of religion but deny its power. Reject them.

 

[Ezra]

The Holy Spirit guides the CHURCH to teach all nations the Gospel.
He doesn't guide each individual from nothing and teach them the Gospel. they heard if first from His Church.

So, once again - YOUR Protestant Fathers would NOT know Christ had it NOT been for the Catholic Church.

not the only realized how wrong the c.c was

 

[Ezra]

This is a fact of history. EVERY ONE of them was a Catholic Churchman who broke away.

your correct false doctrine was discovered

 

[prism]

He did call my children, when He called me.
Have you so little faith in God to answer your prayer for the gift of faith to your children?

Peace!

'You say he called your children when he called you'.
Interesting, my father was an atheist and died an atheist, so where does that put my calling?

 

[Philip James]

'You say he called your children when he called you'.
Interesting, my father was an atheist and died an atheist, so where does that put my calling?

As one who has heard God's call and you and your household will be saved

 

[Giuliano]

That's because you don't fully understand the purpose of statues and images.

Up until the dawn of the 20th century - up to 85% of the world was functionally illiterate. Statues and images were a means of teaching the masses about Christ.
The Temple of Solomon was filled with statues. God commanded Moses to create two Golden Cherubim to sit atop the Ark. He further commanded him to create a Bronze Serpent and place it on a pole so that those who looked upon it would be cured.

People need statues to understand God if they can't read? Pictures aren't enough?

Ordinary people also never saw the cherubim.

I seem to remember too that that serpent on the pole was destroyed when people started worshiping it. So much for teaching the masses through statues.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So let’s stop tap dancing BOL...are all these Christians here, just pretending? Are they taking the Eucharist improperly and therefore doomed? And if so in your mind, why do you care what they say about Catholicism? Why are you Hellbent on molesting the Goats?

“Smithers! release the hounds”

I prefer the unified/Catholic Church of the first century. Everyone was Spirit-filled and no one went hungry. Today's Church that has adopted the name, has let the precepts morph into a monster.

The True Church of Christ are people who daily abide in Jesus and they commune directly with the living God. God is their interpreter of His Word. His people hear His voice and follow Him.

 

[Philip James]

People need statues to understand God if they can't read? Pictures aren't enough?

I seem to remember too that that serpent on the pole was destroyed when people started worshiping it. So much for teaching the masses through statues.

Lesson being, dont worship a statue

 

[Giuliano]

Lesson being, dont worship a statue

And if you don't have them, people can misuse them. Sometimes the easiest way to avoid sin is to avoid temptation.

What about the Ecumenical Council that said flat images were okay and that the Orthodox Church believed had established unity on the subject?

 

[prism]

As one who has heard God's call and you and your household will be saved

Like I said, my dad died an atheist this month (94). I suppose he wasn't included in 'you and your family'?

 

[Philip James]

Like I said, my dad died an atheist this month (94). I suppose he wasn't included in 'you and your family'?

Are you praying for him?