Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[BreadOfLife]

I once had a Catholic cite the Second Council of Nicea as his way of justifying statues. Not that I care either way about images; but he had been talking about the "Ten Commandments" so I asked him about the statues. Back came the reference to the Second Council of Nicea. Funny that the Orthodox agreed with everything in that Council; but they don't permit statues. If you read what's actually written, you see it approved flat pictures/ images; and that remains a source of schism between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

If I were Pope and thought it would help repair the breach with Constantinople, I'd give up the statues. I like them and don't see them as sinful; but I don't need them that much. Go back to what was agreed to.

That's because you don't fully understand the purpose of statues and images.

Up until the dawn of the 20th century - up to 85% of the world was functionally illiterate. Statues and images were a means of teaching the masses about Christ.
The Temple of Solomon was filled with statues. God commanded Moses to create two Golden Cherubim to sit atop the Ark. He further commanded him to create a Bronze Serpent and place it on a pole so that those who looked upon it would be cured.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I guess you mean this type of thing?

An nobody is condemning you for "beieving" what you want to believe.
I am condemning your LIES about the Catholic Church.

Learn the difference . . .

 

[Ezra]

If it weren't for the Catholic Church, your Protestant Fathers would not have known WHO Christ is.

disagree the holy spirit leads us to christ the ecf see how wrong the c.c was in there teachings

 

[Ezra]

He further commanded him to create a Bronze Serpent and place it on a pole so that those who looked upon it would be cured.

wrong wrong wrong . it was not to worship

 

[prism]

lol, Number 1 am not a Mormon. I defend the right of those to believe in what they believe in...even you.
Two, the formula of the Trinity.
I believe the Trinity is real.
I believe that God the Father created the heavens and earth.
I believe that God the Father created Adam and Eve.
I believe that they can and do talk to each other.
I believe they can ask each other questions.
I believe that Christ said, the Father is greater than I.
I believe God can begot a Son. A real Son and a God.
I believe that Christ is the only begotten Son of God.
I believe that God the Father can give certain authority to the Son. All authority had been given to Him.
I believe that Christ will return.
I believe that Christ said that, He did not know the timing of the end, that God the Father does.
I believe that Christ will judge us at the end.
I believe that Christ in the garden He prayed to, talked to, His Father and asked for the Cup be removed from Him.
I believe that Christ in the garden said, But by your will not mine.
I believe that Christ was crucified, not God the Father.
I believe that it is Christ that was sacrificed to end all sacrifices.
i believe that salvation and the forgiveness of sins is through Christ.
I believe that on the cross Christ could not sense His Father and expressed His concern.
I believe that Christ rose from the dead and ascended to the Father.
I believe that Christ sits on throne on the right hand of God the Father.
I believe that the Holy Spirit was involved with the conception of Christ.
I believe that when asked by the mother of the sons of thunder, if they could sit on the thrones? He said that that was not His to give.
I believe that after His resurrection He appeared to Mary Magdalene and the Apostles.
I believe that Christ said, He had to leave for the Holy Spirit to come.
I believe in the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
I believe in the interactions between us and the Holy Spirit.
I believe that the Holy Spirit can communicate to those that believe.
I believe that the Shield of the Trinity is a good visual representation of the construct of the Trinity.
I believe that the exact specifics of the Trinity is beyond our comprehension.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.....
So, how you construct the details of the Trinity is up to you, I will neither argue with it or condemn it.

like i said 'Probably a typo'.

 

[Ezra]

wrong wrong wrong . it was not to worship

it was teaching them faith

 

[BreadOfLife]

No it's not...

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Act 2:38)

Or are you going to claim infants can repent?

You conveniently left OUT the next verse.
Verse 39 completes his statement:

Acts 2:39
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for ALL whom the Lord our God will call.”

God INCLUDES children. THIS is why the Early Church Father testified to the fact that this was a practice handed down to them by the APOSTLES themselves. NOT everything Jesus and the Apostles said and did was written down by them - NOR was it supposed to be.
That is a Protestant blunder.

This is why Paul wrote, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
Rom. 10:17
So faith comes from HEARING, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[prism]

If it weren't for the Catholic Church, your Protestant Fathers would not have known WHO Christ is.
The Catholic Church brought the Gospel of Christ to the WORLD under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15}.

You CANNOT escape your origins . . .

Excuse me, but they were my Jewish origins as all the Apostles, Prophets and Jesus were Jewish.
Again, nice try.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Did you hear about the New Evangelization?
This is the catholic church supposedly trying to evangelize their own people because they did such a terrible job in the past....
And this isn't looking much better to me since people are leaving the church all the time.

I've got news for you - people of all Protestant denominations are leaving as well.

Christianity at large is on a downturn - not just the Catholic Church.
Waas it because they did a "horrible job" the first time around??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Excuse me, but they were my Jewish origins as all the Apostles, Prophets and Jesus were Jewish.
Again, nice try.

They were the first CHRISTIANS - or didn't you know that??

 

[BreadOfLife]

wrong wrong wrong . it was not to worship

Nobody said ANYTHING about "worship".

And the worship of images and statues has ALWAYS been forbidden in the Catholic Church.
Sooooo, what's your point??

 

[prism]

You conveniently left OUT the next verse.
Verse 39 completes his statement:

Acts 2:39
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for ALL whom the Lord our God will call.”

God INCLUDES children. THIS is why the Early Church Father testified to the fact that this was a practice handed down to them by the APOSTLES themselves. NOT everything Jesus and the Apostles said and did was written down by them - NOR was it supposed to be.
That is a Protestant blunder.

This is why Paul wrote, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
Rom. 10:17
So faith comes from HEARING, and hearing through the word of Christ.

(I hope you can follow this)
The end of v.39 says 'for all whom the Lord calls'. You baptize infants promising them all regeneration...not even knowing if the Lord has called that individual. No wonder so many baptisms 'don't take'.

 

[BreadOfLife]

disagree the holy spirit leads us to christ the ecf see how wrong the c.c was in there teachings

The Holy Spirit guides the CHURCH to teach all nations the Gospel.
He doesn't guide each individual from nothing and teach them the Gospel. they heard if first from His Church.

So, once again - YOUR Protestant Fathers would NOT know Christ had it NOT been for the Catholic Church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

(I hope you can follow this)
The end of v.39 says 'for all whom the Lord calls'. You baptize infants promising them all regeneration...not even knowing if the Lord has called that individual. No wonder so many baptisms 'don't take'.

The Lord called ALL Jewish males to circumcision and to be raised in the Jewish faith.
Did the 8-day-old infants CHOOSE to do this - or was it on the faith of their parents??

STUDY your Bible . . .

 

[prism]

They were the first CHRISTIANS - or didn't you know that??

Duh, they were Jewish before being called Christian and they never ceased from being Jewish.

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. John 4:22 (KJV)

Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
(2Co 11:22)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Duh, they were Jewish before being called Christian and they never ceased from being Jewish.
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. John 4:22 (KJV)
Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
(2Co 11:22)

Are they Christians? So am I.
Changing the subject won't bolster your position.

The fact remains that YOUR Protestant Fathers would NOT know Christ had it NOT been for the Catholic Church.

 

[prism]

The Lord called ALL Jewish males to circumcision and to be raised in the Jewish faith.
Did the 8-day-old infants CHOOSE to do this - or was it on the faith of their parents??

STUDY your Bible . . .

You can't make a one-to-one comparison with baptism/circumcision, otherwise no girls would be saved.
Besides circumcision didn't save, it was an entrance into the commonwealth of Israel.

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:25-29)

 

[prism]

Are they Christians? So am I.
Changing the subject won't bolster your position.

The fact remains that YOUR Protestant Fathers would NOT know Christ had it NOT been for the Catholic Church.

All cults make the same claim, "We are the one true Church/teaching".
Making unsubstantiated arrogant claims does not bolster your position either. Face it, the Scriptures came from the Jewish Apostles and Prophets long before there was a Roman Church. I know it's a humble pill for the puffy Pope to swallow.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You can't make a one-to-one comparison with baptism/circumcision, otherwise no girls would be saved.
Besides circumcision didn't save, it was an entrance into the commonwealth of Israel.

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom 2:25-29)

Spoken like a person who knows absolutely NOTHING about ancient Jewish culture.
Women were considered chattel to a Jewish man. It was very much a man-centered faith and culture. It wasn't until the New Covenant that women were considered to be spiritually-equal.
Gal. 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is NO MALE AND FEMALE, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Circumcision didn't just enter pone into the commonwealth - it made you part of the COVENANT with God.
How does an 8-day-old infant enter into a Covenant?? On the faith of his PARENTS.

 

[BreadOfLife]

All cults make the same claim, "We are the one true Church/teaching".
Making unsubstantiated arrogant claims does not bolster your position either. Face it, the Scriptures came from the Jewish Apostles and Prophets long before there was a Roman Church. I know it's a humble pill for the puffy Pope to swallow.

ONE more time:
YOUR Protestant Fathers would NOT know Christ had it NOT been for the Catholic Church.

This is a fact of history. EVERY ONE of them was a Catholic Churchman who broke away.
YOUR Protestant history has its roots in the Catholic Church - whether YOU like it or not.