Christian Denomination Differences

[Soverign Grace]

When you come to think of it, one of the biggest barriers to being a follower of Jesus is denominations. Generally speaking, you have to follow their precepts and ways of doing things to be accepted. Say something they don't like and you are on the outer.

Here is a classic example for you. About 10 years ago I was a founding member of an AOG church in the town where I lived. All went well for about a year and then it all came crashing down. The Pastor(sic) issued a book of doctrines and said we had to sign that we agreed with them (nowhere in scripture for this). I said I could not because there was one I was still coming to grips with. I didn't disagree with it but I still needed to study it a bit more.

A couple of weeks after I said this the pastor told me that his area minister had said I was to be stripped of all ministry and kept on the sidelines until I signed the document.

The fact that was I probably the person who had been a Christain the longest, the only one with university degrees and a theological degrees and had led churches and parachurch ministries already was irrelevant.

However, it was OK for the pastor to claim that God told him he was going to double the congregation every year. Today that meant it was going to be about 50,000. Today he has a congregation of about 40. He was rewarded for that deception by being made an area minister.

If you follow the teaching of a denomination you are definitely in danger of being led up the garden path.

Hard to believe "Christians" would kick someone into the outer...but they do.

 

[CNKW3]

I totally agree, none of us are perfect. But we are called to defend the faith and expose false teachers/doctrine and to do that, we need to know it. We're told to study to show ourselves approved....to rightly divide the word.

There are denominations who believe in a works-based salvation; not scriptural, or baptism saves; not scriptural. Some don't believe Jesus is God or deny the Trinity; so not scriptural.

You see what I mean.

Where did this person get this from? Not scriptural? That would mean you can’t find it in the Bible. Ummmm. Like....
...Saved by faith alone. Show me the verse.
...Any denomination mentioned in the Bible. Show me a baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, episcopal, etc.
....One man pastor over a church?
....Pope?
...female “pastor”?
...sprinkling?
...mechanical instruments in worship?
...tithing?
None of the above can be found as a part of the church. Scriptural? Show it to me.

As far as “works” go? Is it “scriptural”?
Jesus said...
John 6:27 Labour (work) not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

James said...
Faith without works is dead.

Peter said...
Those that fear God and works righteousness will be accepted by him. Acts 10:35
You want to be accepted by God. Then you need to WORK righteousness. What is this?

Paul in 2 Tim...
Wanted the lord to reward a certain man according to his “works”.

Paul also said...
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
You may talk a good talk, but your “works” say something totally different. This is describing 98% of the people on this board. Talk a good talk, but when I ask for proof or confirmation all I get is scoffing.

Mt 25????
The lord is separating the sheep and the goats based on their “works”.
I could go on and on. Not scriptural? Based on what? You sure don’t include the above texts in your exegesis.

Baptism?
1 pet 3:21. The like figure baptism which doth also now save us.
If you only had one verse like that which says the same thing about “faith alone”. But you don’t. You only have a verse that says....we are NOT saved by faith only..James 2
NOT SCRIPTURAL? I’d be careful about making claims like that.

Denominational differences that aren't salvific don't matter; does your church have elders or just deacons, do you sprinkle or immerse....those things don't matter re: salvation. It's the core issues that separate believers from nonbelievers.

You're right in what you said "belief in Him, wholeheartedly" but other things matter, too. Not all things, but some things, and they matter here on Earth because some of them determine whether or not one will be in His future Kingdom.

Since when do you get to decide what matters and what don’t? Do you have some divine ability we need to know about?

 

[CNKW3]

Those other things, those that don't matter, can be taught. I guess that's what I'm saying overall. If the essentials for salvation are met, then anything else can be taught.

Let’s put this to the test.
What are....”the essentials for salvation”?

 

[CNKW3]

The short answer is "NO". God and Christ look across all denominational lines for all those who have obeyed the Gospel and been purchased with His own blood. And are trusting in nothing (and no one) other that the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption for their salvation. At the same time they hold all who call themselves Christians accountable for following false teachings and practices. Or for walking in the flesh. See Revelation 1-3.

I have to laugh at these type of comments. Like this person knows how God is going to react. The only way we know how God will react is revealed in his word. This is the only place we have this information. Let’s look at facts...
1. There are no denominations in the Bible. Show me one.
2. Therefore we have no evidence of God “looking across denominational lines” for those who have obeyed.
3. Unity is commanded throughout the NT. There is ZERO unity in denominations. That’s what the word means....division.

“Purchased with his own blood”?
Acts 20:28 says he purchased THE CHURCH with his own blood. He DID NOT say....purchased A CHURCH/ ANY CHURCH with his own blood. Show us where he purchased a Baptist church with his blood. Kind of odd since the baptist didn’t come along until 1600 years later.
What makes anybody think that God will accept ANYTHING accept exactly what he built in the first century through the apostles.
Mt 15 says...
But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
God never planted a denomination. If so, show me one. So how can you be in one and be accepted by God. You’ll be rooted up.

 

[CNKW3]

Thoughts?

Just a funny side, the non-denomination group is a denomination

And sorry in advance for the length. It's a good topic, I think.

Here’s an important question....
Is there a group that is the real thing! Is there a group that is NOT a denomination.
Jesus said.... I will build my church. Did he? Where is it? What does it look like?
Paul wrote to the church in Ephesus. Were they a denomination?
The church in Corinth? Were they a denomination? If not then who were they?
Rome? Was that congregation a denomination?
Laodicea, Philippi, Smyrna,
Churches in Galatia? Were they denominations?
What we do know is that they were ALL to teach and practice the same thing.
1 Cor 1:10-12. 4:17
So, wouldn’t you want to be a part of the “real” church that is NOT A denomination.

 

[CNKW3]

The different parts of the body that is the body of Christ and the church of Christ...are suppose to be different. That is how a body is made (by design) and how it works.

This is incorrect. You are saying that a denomination like the baptist are a “body part”. That is not correct. Body parts in 1 Cor 12 are people. It is people that make up a local church. And each person within a local congregation has a different role just like hands, eyes, feet, etc. all have a different function to make the body or church move in the same direction, working together. A denomination like the baptist is not a part of the body of Christ. It is the Lord that’s adds people to the church/body after one obeys the gospel. Acts 2:37-47
And he NEVER added anybody to a baptist church. If so, show me where that took place.

 

[ScottA]

This is incorrect. You are saying that a denomination like the baptist are a “body part”. That is not correct. Body parts in 1 Cor 12 are people. It is people that make up a local church. And each person within a local congregation has a different role just like hands, eyes, feet, etc. all have a different function to make the body or church move in the same direction, working together. A denomination like the baptist is not a part of the body of Christ. It is the Lord that’s adds people to the church/body after one obeys the gospel. Acts 2:37-47
And he NEVER added anybody to a baptist church. If so, show me where that took place.

There is some truth to what you say, but only some.

You have considered the individual parts, but not the general parts that actually do move in opposition to move the church in the same direction: the one leg pushes forward while the other pushes back, and the thumb opposes the fingers...all by design.

This is the Lord's doing.

 

[CNKW3]

There is some truth to what you say, but only some.

You have considered the individual parts, but not the general parts that actually do move in opposition to move the church in the same direction: the one leg pushes forward while the other pushes back, and the thumb opposes the fingers...all by design.

This is the Lord's doing.

What does the movement of legs working together have to do with denominationalism? The baptist dont work together with the Methodist. There is a baptist church and Methodist just a quarter mile from each other next to my house. They teach and practice different doctrines. They dont worship together. Listen to Charles Stanley give the Methodist what for on sprinkling. Methodist allow women preachers. That’s not biblical. How is that working for the good of the church?

 

[Enoch111]

I have to laugh at these type of comments.

I have to laugh at such absurd responses.

 

[ScottA]

What does the movement of legs working together have to do with denominationalism? The baptist dont work together with the Methodist. There is a baptist church and Methodist just a quarter mile from each other next to my house. They teach and practice different doctrines. They dont worship together. Listen to Charles Stanley give the Methodist what for on sprinkling. Methodist allow women preachers. That’s not biblical. How is that working for the good of the church?

You're not getting the "body" analogy.

Both legs of one body do not move together in unison, but move the body in the same direction by opposing force. Likewise, different denominations offer different perspective of the same movement by the power of Christ. That does not mean, however, that they all are good and of Christ, or that He does not have somewhat against some as He did with 5 of the 7 churches named in Revelation. Nonetheless, God works all things together for good for those who love Him.

 

[Ezra]

Will Jesus Christ reject us if we aren't in the "right" denomination (whatever that means)? Will Jesus say to those in one denomination or another, "Depart from me I never knew you." (Matthew 7:23 "And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'")?

NO
Ephesians 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto {every one of us is given } grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

nothing wrong with denoms as long as they keep christ centered .problem with denoms is man

 

[CNKW3]

I have to laugh at such absurd responses.

Well, it’s good to know we can come to you when we want to know how Gods going to act on a certain subject. You seem to be privy to information nobody else has.

 

[marksman]

And all of that (in that church you spoke of) was done in His name.

I agree with you completely, regarding the teachings of denoms leading away from Him. It focuses on "us with Him" rather than just Him, in my view anyway.

Now here's the kicker, even though their actions at the church were wrong, and sidelined you unjustly in my view, do you think Jesus will condemn them for that, to be specific, will He say to the person/persons "depart from me I never knew you"? Of course, each of us has our own opinion on what Jesus will do, but Jesus will only do what He will do, it's not up to us. But it's interesting conversation in the least, and perhaps, might have an effect on preventing the type of actions that led to you being sidelined from occuring. I doubt it, but it's a possibility.

BTW, are you still wanting to get your old username/handle back, the "marksman"? I sent you a PM to see if I can help out, but if you're unsure of how to view those, you may never see my message to you. PM or publicly, doesn't matter to me. Let me know if you are still wanting "marksman" back...

One thing that I do feel strongly about is that there are going to be some very big surprises when it comes to heaven. There are going to be a lot of people not there who we thought would be and there are going to be a lot of people there who we thought would not be.

 

[CNKW3]

NO
Ephesians 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto {every one of us is given } grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

nothing wrong with denoms as long as they keep christ centered .problem with denoms is man

You just posted that there is “one body”. The body is the church. Where do you get that 1000 different churches teaching and practicing different doctrines are ok. Paul said he taught the same thing in every church. He Also said.....
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
How does this jive with “denoms are ok”.
So, Paul taught Methodist doctrine in one, baptist doctrine in another, then catholic and pope doctrine in another?

 

[illini1959]

Where did this person get this from? Not scriptural? That would mean you can’t find it in the Bible. Ummmm. Like....
...Saved by faith alone. Show me the verse.
...Any denomination mentioned in the Bible. Show me a baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, episcopal, etc.
....One man pastor over a church?
....Pope?
...female “pastor”?
...sprinkling?
...mechanical instruments in worship?
...tithing?
None of the above can be found as a part of the church. Scriptural? Show it to me.

As far as “works” go? Is it “scriptural”?
Jesus said...
John 6:27 Labour (work) not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

James said...
Faith without works is dead.

Peter said...
Those that fear God and works righteousness will be accepted by him. Acts 10:35
You want to be accepted by God. Then you need to WORK righteousness. What is this?

Paul in 2 Tim...
Wanted the lord to reward a certain man according to his “works”.

Paul also said...
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
You may talk a good talk, but your “works” say something totally different. This is describing 98% of the people on this board. Talk a good talk, but when I ask for proof or confirmation all I get is scoffing.

Mt 25????
The lord is separating the sheep and the goats based on their “works”.
I could go on and on. Not scriptural? Based on what? You sure don’t include the above texts in your exegesis.

Baptism?
1 pet 3:21. The like figure baptism which doth also now save us.
If you only had one verse like that which says the same thing about “faith alone”. But you don’t. You only have a verse that says....we are NOT saved by faith only..James 2
NOT SCRIPTURAL? I’d be careful about making claims like that.


Since when do you get to decide what matters and what don’t? Do you have some divine ability we need to know about?

This is what happens when people take verses at face value and out of context.

 

[CNKW3]

This is what happens when people take verses at face value and out of context.

If I took anything out of context, please explain how. You are doing nobody any good by making a statement like that and then not back it up.

Let’s look at how Paul ended his life and if he thought he had a part to play in his salvation.
2 Timothy 4:6-8 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
He knew it was about time to go.

I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
Look at all of these I’s. I have fought a good fight. How dare he boast like that.
I have finished MY course.
I have kept the faith. What does that matter Paul? Don’t you know there is NOTHING you can do for salvation. God just gives it to you.

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
The word henceforth shows that Paul is expecting a crown based on what he just said. Based on the life that he lived. Paul was someone who “worked righteousness” therefore He had the expectation of being accepted by God.
And you say....”works” has no part in salvation. I’d rather listen to Paul.

 

[Marymog]

To me, my view of Jesus is that if there is belief in Him, wholeheartedly, and you are saved by His sacrifice for your sins, denominational differences do not matter to Him (at least during this time period).
Thoughts?

Hi 4Jesus,

Truly the first step is believing in Him wholeheartedly (John 5:24, 6:47, 14:12) and this matters to him. But wouldn't you agree that He said more than that?

Truly SOME denominations disregard John 6:53. Do you think that matters to Him?

Bible Study Mary

 

[Marymog]

The short answer is "NO". God and Christ look across all denominational lines for all those who have obeyed the Gospel and been purchased with His own blood. And are trusting in nothing (and no one) other that the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption for their salvation. At the same time they hold all who call themselves Christians accountable for following false teachings and practices. Or for walking in the flesh. See Revelation 1-3.

Hi Enoch,

I get the gist of your point but what does it mean to "obey the Gospel"?

What about the denominations that don't baptize or hold communion with bread and wine? Have they obeyed the gospel?

To me it seems they have not.

Curious Mary

 

[illini1959]

Where did this person get this from? Not scriptural? That would mean you can’t find it in the Bible. Ummmm. Like....
...Saved by faith alone. Show me the verse.
...Any denomination mentioned in the Bible. Show me a baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, episcopal, etc.
....One man pastor over a church?
....Pope?
...female “pastor”?
...sprinkling?
...mechanical instruments in worship?
...tithing?
None of the above can be found as a part of the church. Scriptural? Show it to me.

Except for the saved by faith alone, which is scriptural, where did I say any of the other stuff was biblical?

As far as “works” go? Is it “scriptural”?
Jesus said...
John 6:27 Labour (work) not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

James said...
Faith without works is dead.

Peter said...
Those that fear God and works righteousness will be accepted by him. Acts 10:35
You want to be accepted by God. Then you need to WORK righteousness. What is this?

Paul in 2 Tim...
Wanted the lord to reward a certain man according to his “works”.

Paul also said...
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
You may talk a good talk, but your “works” say something totally different. This is describing 98% of the people on this board. Talk a good talk, but when I ask for proof or confirmation all I get is scoffing.

Mt 25????
The lord is separating the sheep and the goats based on their “works”.
I could go on and on. Not scriptural? Based on what? You sure don’t include the above texts in your exegesis.

Where are you getting that I said anything about any of this?

Works based salvation is not biblical. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:8-9

Works after salvation are. Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain. 1 Cor 15:58

Baptism?
1 pet 3:21. The like figure baptism which doth also now save us.
If you only had one verse like that which says the same thing about “faith alone”. But you don’t. You only have a verse that says....we are NOT saved by faith only..James 2
NOT SCRIPTURAL? I’d be careful about making claims like that.

What claim did I make, lol? I mentioned a few things that denominations believe which are not scriptural - since this is supposedly a thread about denominational differences.... I never said I held to those beliefs.

Except the saved by faith, cuz yeah - that's biblical, and baptism doesn't save. Would Paul have thanked God he didn't baptize any of them, except for 2, if it was essential for salvation?

I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. 1 Cor 1:14

Since when do you get to decide what matters and what don’t? Do you have some divine ability we need to know about?

Anyone who can read the word can figure out what is essential for salvation - belief in Christ and receiving Him as Savior.

It's not hard, unless a person is unsaved. Then it could be hard because satan lies to people.....

 

[Marymog]

Anyone who can read the word can figure out what is essential for salvation - belief in Christ and receiving Him as Savior.

Hi,

If your theory is true....Why do all the Protestant denominations have different doctrines on "what is essential for salvation"?

According to you.....which ones can read and which ones can't?

Curious Mary