10 different NT warning-types against eternal security

[justbyfaith]

But the furthest declaration I can foresee me making would be to say that I am living without the consciousness of sin,

Heb 10:2, For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Heb 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Here we find that Jesus has purged our sins; and that we therefore ought not to have any more conscience (consciousness) of sins.

Therefore, the only ones who should have consciousness of sins should be those whose sins have not been purged by our Lord.

context:

Heb 10:3, But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4, For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sins; but the blood of Jesus can:

1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[justbyfaith]

I simply say that we are not qualified judges of ourselves even to really know, echoing Paul's words that he didn't even judge himself, as Jesus truly knows the heart, and not me. I look to Jesus that I may live faithfully and fruitfully, serving as He gives me ability, which means serving as He wants, not as I think.

If in anything my thoughts are not conformed to the heavenly order, then something else has taken the place, that being the mind of the flesh, and it can be so subtle. But the mind of the flesh results in unrighteousness being brought forth through my body, as that mind of the flesh is enslaved to sin.

The attitude of everyone who is "perfect" would be that "I have room to grow" (Philippians 3:12-15) and, "I am not going backwards." Philippians 3:16)

 

[Grailhunter]

The attitude of everyone who is "perfect" would be that "I have room to grow" (Philippians 3:12-15) and, "I am not going backwards." Philippians 3:16)

Ok, the topic is repentance…
Definition of Repent
Merriam-Webster
intransitive verb
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2a: to feel regret or contrition
b: to change one's mind

transitive verb
1: to cause to feel regret or contrition
2: to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance #3340
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Definition: to change one's mind or purpose
Usage: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance #3341
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance
Usage: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.

Christian definition of repent:
Repentance, metanoia in the Greek, means a change of mind. In the New Testament repentance is always a change of mind which results in a change in direction. God calls us, through the moral law and his offer of grace in Christ, to change our minds about our self-centered ways of living, to stop going our own way and follow Christ instead. Repentance thus involves a 180 degree turn of morale character.

Anyone that thinks that studying the details of the Bible is an easy thing…well this is a good example that they are wrong. The Webster Dictionary is a secular reference, but pulls Christian beliefs into it definition. Strong’s as a whole is very accurate, but in some instances it is guilty of what they call “Christianizing”. The definitions above are Old English-Old French Christian definitions of a Pagan word.

Repent (μετανοέω) and Repentance (μετάνοια) are Pagan Greek words….and as most know the New Testament was written in Greek. These Greek words are not religious and they are not Christian.

The Greek language had been around awhile before Christ’s ministry and Christ and the Apostle knew these words and used them in their context.

The Greek words do not have anything to do with change, turn around, or 180 degrees. But there is a meaning or sense of regret and sorrow for wronging someone. And the meaning of the Greek words are properly represented in the Bible because, those writing the scriptures understood the Greek words and used them in context.

Greek meaning of repeat: A realization and an admission that you have done wrong or wronged someone, and want to make it right….Repent is in the mind…not an action…a want, to make it right.

Greek meaning of repentance: The forgiveness you get from acknowledging your error. Based on the concept of reconciling with the person you have wronged and through reconciliation receiving forgiveness. A good part of the time in the Bible, it means forgiveness because you repented. Neither repent or repentance has any connection or insinuation of on going perfection. But this is why repentance has a connection to baptism, because baptism is the process where sins are forgiven.

Acts 11:18 NASB
When they heard these things, they were silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then God has granted to the Gentiles also repentance unto life.

Acts 11:18 KJV
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Context: Repentance here means forgiveness unto life or that leads to life. It does not mean repenting your whole life.

Mark 1:4 KJV
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Context: …preach the baptism of forgiveness for the canceling / removal of sins. So why didn’t they just say forgiveness? Because the realization and admission of wrong occurs before baptism and repentance is the forgiveness of those sins.

Luke 15:7 NASB
I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance….
Context: …over one sinner that realizes they did wrong than the ninety-nine righteous persons who need no forgiveness.

Luke 17:3 KJV
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Context: If he repents, it is correct to expect forgiveness.

Luke 24:46-47 NASB
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Context: And the forgiveness and the canceling of the charges of sins should be preached.

Act 26:20 NASB
but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.
Note: I suspect verses like this is how the Christian definition came to include the word turn. Context: should realize and admit they did wrong, turn to God and perform the deeds appropriate for those that have been forgiven.

Acts 2:38 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Context: Admit your wrong doing, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the removal of sins… There are several of these scriptures.

Looking for Truth? Let us put it in motion, because this is the reason I responded to this.

Let say a man goes up on a Saturday to a park to have lunch. He brings the Holy Bible with him. Now like most of us growing up in a Christian culture he know a lot about Christianity but all that had been pushed back due to college and family….the rat race. He eats his lunch and he opens the Bible and reads from it. Now you can call it what you will, but something draws his attention to some scriptures that really means something to him, touches his mind and his heart. Now as he reads the words from the scriptures he decides that, this is what he wants, he wants to be a Christian and he believes that Christ is God and Messiah. This is the instant in time that he is saved. Faith in Christ is the point of being saved. Belief is what saves, not a single physical movement.

Now this man, at this point don’t even know enough to be sorry or repent from anything. And he is not going to be baptized that day. Even if he goes to church the next day, it may take him sometime to know what he is sorry for, and even then he is not going to remember everything. After he repents then he will get baptized. (In my beliefs Communion is important too.)

As far as his plans and actions, to change his life…this will probably occur over time, particularly since he is going to need to work with his wife and kids, because their lives are going to change too.

Then there is one other thing to consider…let us say that this man was an alcoholic. Now, depending on what church he went to, their definition may be that repentance is thought to include stopping all habitual sin, immediately. Some believe that you cannot be saved until you stop. Some believe you loose your salvation if you don’t stop. Some believe if you do not stop that you were not saved to begin with. To that end, this guy might have several baptisms. I have seen it. I do not believe that any of that is correct. The belief itself probably was caused by the misunderstanding of the meaning of repent. The judgment of this man is in the hands of Christ…if he remains a drunkard for the rest of his life, that is more or less one of the sins on to death. At some point he has to stop being a drunk, but that is likely not going to happen like flipping a switch. As far as us, that is, we determining if he is still a Christian or not, or if he is saved, or not…Not our pay grade! Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:1-2 Once a person believes in Christ, his judgment and destination is up to Christ, not us.

Of course my beliefs are my beliefs, and I believe salvation is our walk with Christ…and for all of us we pray that our walk with him will make us better persons.

 

[Zachary]

... we practice righteousness because we are righteous.

Don't you see that ...
The practicing of righteousness PROVES we are righteous,
so to be righteous we must be practicing righteousness!
'Tis mandatory!
2 opposite sides of the same coin.

Ditto for ...
Belief and repentance are 2 opposite sides of the same coin
(according to the Holman Christian Standard Bible).
.

 

[Zachary]

Meanwhile, back at el rancho ...
most of my posts are ignored because
you have no credible answers for them!

Your only answers rhyme with: "Once saved, always saved!"
Quite pathetic, to say the least.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

Once a person believes in Christ, his judgment and destination is up to Christ, not us.

1Co 6:1, Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2, Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3, Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Our judgment is just because the Father and Christ are with us in the judgment.

Concerning being a drunkard, I believe a biblical case can be made that even if a man "decides to be a Christian"...if he continues to be a drunkard, he will not inherit the kingdom of the Lord:

Gal 5:16, This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17, For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Don't you see that ...
The practicing of righteousness PROVES we are righteous,
so to be righteous we must be practicing righteousness!
'Tis mandatory!
2 opposite sides of the same coin.

Ditto for ...
Belief and repentance are 2 opposite sides of the same coin
(according to the Holman Christian Standard Bible).
.

The question is what is the root and what is the fruit.

Being a doer of righteousness is the fruit of righteousness by faith.

Righteousness by faith is the root.

 

[Davy]

'For I am persuaded,
.. that neither death,
.... nor life,
...... nor angels,
........ nor principalities,
.......... nor powers,
............ nor things present,
.............. nor things to come,
................ nor height,
.................. nor depth,
.................... nor any other creature,
shall be able to separate us from the love of God,
which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.'
(Romans 8:38-39)

Praise God!

Acts 20:27-31
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with His Own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
KJV

Apostle Paul admonished us much in his Epistles, but he also mentioned warnings like the above.

Paul also warned us about the "another Jesus" and receiving "another spirit" he and the Apostles did not preach (2 Corinthians 11).

Peter said this about the end...

2 Peter 2:1-3
2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
KJV

And again, Apostle Paul speaking to Timothy...

2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV

And Paul even said this!

1 Tim 5:11-15
11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
KJV

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 about the great apostasy to Antichrist was another warning Paul gave the Church.

How is it then, that some folks want to use Scripture like Romans 8 to try and show all believers are 'sealed' for the end and can't fall away? especially since Apostle Paul also showed how easy it was even in his day to fall away from Christ, and especially at the end?

All of us who have believed on our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ want to be saved and inherit His Promise with His faithful. Yet there's the key, being faithful, waiting for Him all the way up to the day of His return. And in this present world time, remaining faithful to Christ is probably one of the hardest times of test than in any other time of the world, that mainly because of the coming pseudo-Christ that will appear on earth first, working great signs and wonders, showing himself that he is God. That is what's coming in our near future, and I think most of us today will be alive to see it.

 

[Grailhunter]

1Co 6:1, Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2, Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3, Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Our judgment is just because the Father and Christ are with us in the judgment.

Concerning being a drunkard, I believe a biblical case can be made that even if a man "decides to be a Christian"...if he continues to be a drunkard, he will not inherit the kingdom of the Lord:

Gal 5:16, This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17, For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



The question is what is the root and what is the fruit.

Being a doer of righteousness is the fruit of righteousness by faith.

Righteousness by faith is the root.

Our judgment is just because the Father and Christ are with us in the judgment.
Thanks JBF...You probably need to expand upon that, but you know what, I think that might be an interesting thread. Any Christian concept, belief, or doctrine should be put in motion to see if it makes any sense. Is Christ going to be the Judge at the end of time, or is it going to be us? Has authority been given to us to judge each other? Who picks the Judge? Who determines which judge is right? Is there judges of judges? If we lay a judgment against someone, how is that enforced. I am thinking you would get a few responses on that. In the early church there were councils and you could make a compliant against
someone. We don't have a lot of information about the rulings and consequences of those councils. But once we get into the Roman Catholics Church, now there is where the fun begins. That is some judgement with teeth. Burning people alive, torture chambers, the inquisition, and witch-hunts. Ahhh, gone are the good ole days!

 

[marks]

Ok, the topic is repentance…
Definition of Repent
Merriam-Webster
intransitive verb
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2a: to feel regret or contrition
b: to change one's mind

transitive verb
1: to cause to feel regret or contrition
2: to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance #3340
metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Definition: to change one's mind or purpose
Usage: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance #3341
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance
Usage: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.

Christian definition of repent:
Repentance, metanoia in the Greek, means a change of mind. In the New Testament repentance is always a change of mind which results in a change in direction. God calls us, through the moral law and his offer of grace in Christ, to change our minds about our self-centered ways of living, to stop going our own way and follow Christ instead. Repentance thus involves a 180 degree turn of morale character.

Anyone that thinks that studying the details of the Bible is an easy thing…well this is a good example that they are wrong. The Webster Dictionary is a secular reference, but pulls Christian beliefs into it definition. Strong’s as a whole is very accurate, but in some instances it is guilty of what they call “Christianizing”. The definitions above are Old English-Old French Christian definitions of a Pagan word.

Repent (μετανοέω) and Repentance (μετάνοια) are Pagan Greek words….and as most know the New Testament was written in Greek. These Greek words are not religious and they are not Christian.

The Greek language had been around awhile before Christ’s ministry and Christ and the Apostle knew these words and used them in their context.

The Greek words do not have anything to do with change, turn around, or 180 degrees. But there is a meaning or sense of regret and sorrow for wronging someone. And the meaning of the Greek words are properly represented in the Bible because, those writing the scriptures understood the Greek words and used them in context.

Greek meaning of repeat: A realization and an admission that you have done wrong or wronged someone, and want to make it right….Repent is in the mind…not an action…a want, to make it right.

Greek meaning of repentance: The forgiveness you get from acknowledging your error. Based on the concept of reconciling with the person you have wronged and through reconciliation receiving forgiveness. A good part of the time in the Bible, it means forgiveness because you repented. Neither repent or repentance has any connection or insinuation of on going perfection. But this is why repentance has a connection to baptism, because baptism is the process where sins are forgiven.

Acts 11:18 NASB
When they heard these things, they were silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then God has granted to the Gentiles also repentance unto life.

Acts 11:18 KJV
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Context: Repentance here means forgiveness unto life or that leads to life. It does not mean repenting your whole life.

Mark 1:4 KJV
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Context: …preach the baptism of forgiveness for the canceling / removal of sins. So why didn’t they just say forgiveness? Because the realization and admission of wrong occurs before baptism and repentance is the forgiveness of those sins.

Luke 15:7 NASB
I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance….
Context: …over one sinner that realizes they did wrong than the ninety-nine righteous persons who need no forgiveness.

Luke 17:3 KJV
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Context: If he repents, it is correct to expect forgiveness.

Luke 24:46-47 NASB
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Context: And the forgiveness and the canceling of the charges of sins should be preached.

Act 26:20 NASB
but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.
Note: I suspect verses like this is how the Christian definition came to include the word turn. Context: should realize and admit they did wrong, turn to God and perform the deeds appropriate for those that have been forgiven.

Acts 2:38 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Context: Admit your wrong doing, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the removal of sins… There are several of these scriptures.

Looking for Truth? Let us put it in motion, because this is the reason I responded to this.

Let say a man goes up on a Saturday to a park to have lunch. He brings the Holy Bible with him. Now like most of us growing up in a Christian culture he know a lot about Christianity but all that had been pushed back due to college and family….the rat race. He eats his lunch and he opens the Bible and reads from it. Now you can call it what you will, but something draws his attention to some scriptures that really means something to him, touches his mind and his heart. Now as he reads the words from the scriptures he decides that, this is what he wants, he wants to be a Christian and he believes that Christ is God and Messiah. This is the instant in time that he is saved. Faith in Christ is the point of being saved. Belief is what saves, not a single physical movement.

Now this man, at this point don’t even know enough to be sorry or repent from anything. And he is not going to be baptized that day. Even if he goes to church the next day, it may take him sometime to know what he is sorry for, and even then he is not going to remember everything. After he repents then he will get baptized. (In my beliefs Communion is important too.)

As far as his plans and actions, to change his life…this will probably occur over time, particularly since he is going to need to work with his wife and kids, because their lives are going to change too.

Then there is one other thing to consider…let us say that this man was an alcoholic. Now, depending on what church he went to, their definition may be that repentance is thought to include stopping all habitual sin, immediately. Some believe that you cannot be saved until you stop. Some believe you loose your salvation if you don’t stop. Some believe if you do not stop that you were not saved to begin with. To that end, this guy might have several baptisms. I have seen it. I do not believe that any of that is correct. The belief itself probably was caused by the misunderstanding of the meaning of repent. The judgment of this man is in the hands of Christ…if he remains a drunkard for the rest of his life, that is more or less one of the sins on to death. At some point he has to stop being a drunk, but that is likely not going to happen like flipping a switch. As far as us, that is, we determining if he is still a Christian or not, or if he is saved, or not…Not our pay grade! Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:1-2 Once a person believes in Christ, his judgment and destination is up to Christ, not us.

Of course my beliefs are my beliefs, and I believe salvation is our walk with Christ…and for all of us we pray that our walk with him will make us better persons.

I'm not sure why in all your study you haven't seen this, but you may want to look.

Meta, the preposition "after", when a prefix to a compound word, refers to the result of an exchange.

Meta = after, noia = mind. Metanoia is the "after-mind", or, the result of an exchanged mind. In Scripture, this relates to having exchanged the mind of the flesh for the Mind of Christ.

Check it out.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Meanwhile, back at el rancho ...
most of my posts are ignored because
you have no credible answers for them!

Your only answers rhyme with: "Once saved, always saved!"
Quite pathetic, to say the least.
.

You can't be talking about me, right?

 

[marks]

Here we find that Jesus has purged our sins; and that we therefore ought not to have any more conscience (consciousness) of sins.

Therefore, the only ones who should have consciousness of sins should be those whose sins have not been purged by our Lord.

Is that not an amazing truth?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The practicing of righteousness PROVES we are righteous,

My practicing of righteousness is only proof to you, and only to the point that you can see it, or will acknowledge the seeing.

The truth of righteousness is known by God.

Much love!

 

[Zachary]

Total Insanity ... many hearty congratulations!

BTW ... Father God is in the process of crashing the world economy!
When the crash is obvious (soon, probably in October),
even the church will WAKE UP ...
and take their rightful place in God's order of things.
Advising you to PREPARE would be a waste of time, so I won't.
.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm not sure why in all your study you haven't seen this, but you may want to look.

Meta, the preposition "after", when a prefix to a compound word, refers to the result of an exchange.

Meta = after, noia = mind. Metanoia is the "after-mind", or, the result of an exchanged mind. In Scripture, this relates to having exchanged the mind of the flesh for the Mind of Christ.

Check it out.

Much love!

Thanks for responding. There are a few on the forum that dabble with ancient languages. You should spend a little time up at The Center for Hellenic Studies. Depending on the timing they have some pretty interesting guest speakers. I am saying this with a smile on my face and humor...the whole language thing is fun, so don't stop calling me on....if you catch me in an error I will own up to it. And again thanks...I keep telling people that you cannot read the Bible like it is the latest edition of the Sunday Paper. The words you take all that effort to look up and know, will trip you up, if you do not know the time period and the culture, and you have to check your sources, and then sometimes you are still guessing? lol Ancient words have a tendency to have long definitions because there are fewer words in their language. In our modern dictionaries the definitions are listed in order of relevance. You cannot do that in dictionaries of ancient languages because the meaning of the words are used in so many ways…which is trivia. Now repent and repentance in the Greek nearly mean the same thing in definition but are used differently in the culture.

You made the effort so I am not going to poke fun at this >>>Meta = after, noia = mind. Metanoia is the "after-mind", or, the result of an exchanged mind.<<<< don’t ever do this. If you are going to get serious in the study of the language go back to the word. As it is after-thought is more a kin to repent than repentance, as in “I repented of that idea.” Or “I repented of going to New York.” A regret, after the fact, a regret. Where as repentance has a sense of regret and sorrow. From this it would look like the Strong’s has the words backwards…but it does not….it is just the way they are used in that culture.

The Greek word μετάνοια, has several meanings, and forgiveness is listed but it is not a direct meaning, and this is where you get into the time period and culture. For example let me use it in a sentence, “George was given repentance.” Which means that he was given forgiveness….because…. he repented. Or like in the scripture I gave: Acts 11:18 KJV “When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.” Context: Repentance here means forgiveness unto life or that leads to life. It does not mean they were repenting their whole life.

Culture does not always come into play, but in the case of these two words, it does. And there is still more to say on these two words but another point I will make to bring things into clarity: How long do you think, that by the time Christ, the Greek language had been around? Next question: Do you think that Alexander the Great had a word in his vocabulary that had anything to do with Christianity? Anything to do with sin? Anything to do with asking forgiveness from the Trinity? The answer is, no. These Greek words from the Greek perspective only refer to human relations. The scriptures used them in the Greek context, but with a connection to our God, so they were turned into Christian Theological words, that have additional meanings regarding our religion, so they are Christian definitions, not Greek definitions. You study this stuff until you think you have the meaning, then you look at how the ancients used the word, and then place the meaning in the sentence, and see if it makes sense. That is one of the tests. But repentance still means the forgiveness you received because you repented. Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

 

[marks]

You made the effort so I am not going to poke fun at this >>> <<<< don’t ever do this.

Curious what you mean, don't ever do what?

If you are going to get serious in the study of the language go back to the word.

I don't recall talking about where I drew my information from. Were you interested in a discussion of how to go about word studies, and finding the Scriptural meanings for the words used? I studied under a very capable teacher, plus my ongoing studies, and I also have various Greek grammatical reference books, so I rely on those sources also.

And an excellent reference, I've found, for a quick refresher, is: scripture4all.org

As it is after-thought is more a kin to repent than repentance, as in “I repented of that idea.” Or “I repented of going to New York.” A regret, after the fact, a regret. Where as repentance has a sense of regret and sorrow. From this it would look like the Strong’s has the words backwards…but it does not….it is just the way they are used in that culture.

The Greek word μετάνοια, has several meanings, and forgiveness is listed but it is not a direct meaning,

I'm curious about something else, too, when you say, "forgiveness is listed . . .", are you taking this from a dictionary?

But as far as "thought", as in "after thought", wouldn't that more likely be from 'phroneo'? The way we think?

Repentance, however, understood as, "the exchange of the old mind of the flesh for the new mind of Christ",or, again, the after-mind, is something that is in fact granted to us by God. It results in a change of behavior, but it's not that change of behavior. Its the change of the inner man.

For us to repent, it's to reject who we are before being reborn, in favor of what God tells us we should be. We do that, and God gives us rebirth. And the new mind.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Curious what you mean, don't ever do what?



I don't recall talking about where I drew my information from. Were you interested in a discussion of how to go about word studies, and finding the Scriptural meanings for the words used? I studied under a very capable teacher, plus my ongoing studies, and I also have various Greek grammatical reference books, so I rely on those sources also.

And an excellent reference, I've found, for a quick refresher, is: scripture4all.org



I'm curious about something else, too, when you say, "forgiveness is listed . . .", are you taking this from a dictionary?

But as far as "thought", as in "after thought", wouldn't that more likely be from 'phroneo'? The way we think?

Repentance, however, understood as, "the exchange of the old mind of the flesh for the new mind of Christ",or, again, the after-mind, is something that is in fact granted to us by God. It results in a change of behavior, but it's not that change of behavior. Its the change of the inner man.

For us to repent, it's to reject who we are before being reborn, in favor of what God tells us we should be. We do that, and God gives us rebirth. And the new mind.

Much love!

See you got defensive! lol
1. Go back to the Greek word and translate straight to English. No need for a middle word. For example the Greek word μετανοέω = repent in English. Not μετανοέω = metanoeó....What are going to do with metanoeó? metanoeó is subjective and open to debate. Many of the mistakes made in translating words are caused by this. Many of the mistakes in the Bible are caused by this.

2. The more expensive Lexicons are a more reliable source for most words. Still there is a reason why ancient languages are college courses, professors of such. Culture, regions, and time periods affect all ancient languages and their understanding.

3. Reliable person....example...a Baptist linguist will document what the Baptists believe or it will not be accept and he will not get a pay check.

4. Repentance, however, understood as, "the exchange of the old mind of the flesh for the new mind of Christ",or, again, the after-mind, is something that is in fact granted to us by God. It results in a change of behavior, but it's not that change of behavior. Its the change of the inner man.
Again you are talking about a Christian Theological definition that did not exist in the ancient Greek language. They were Pagans.

For us to repent, it's to reject who we are before being reborn, in favor of what God tells us we should be. We do that, and God gives us rebirth. And the new mind.

Ditto.

5. Forgiveness is listed.
As I explained, ancient words, at times have many meanings....so how they are used, are sometime listed with the word.

 

[marks]

See you got defensive! lol

What are you referring to? And why would this make you happy?

 

[marks]

Not μετανοέω = metanoeó

Do you have an issue with transliterating? It's a lot easier for me to type that way.

1. Go back to the Greek word and translate straight to English. No need for a middle word. For example the Greek word μετανοέω = repent in English. Not μετανοέω = metanoeó....What are going to do with metanoeó? metanoeó is subjective and open to debate. Many of the mistakes made in translating words are caused by this. Many of the mistakes in the Bible are caused by this.

But this sounds like you're saying, forget the words studies, this is what it means so that's that. OK.

But to answer your question, what are we going to do with Koine Greek word metanoeo? Understand it. Are you thinking I'm bringing in modern Greek or something?

2. The more expensive Lexicons are a more reliable source for most words. Still there is a reason why ancient languages are college courses, professors of such. Culture, regions, and time periods affect all ancient languages and their understanding.

I believe in availing myself of both, don't you think that's good? Books and college.

Again you are talking about a Christian Theological definition that did not exist in the ancient Greek language. They were Pagans.

Words can be used to say many things, and btw, try to prove that negative.

But this is what is taught in Scripture.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

I am curious as to what people think of the following scripture...

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

I wonder if when people say such things as, "I am a sinner saved by grace;" that they realize that they are in effect saying, "I am a child of the devil who is nevertheless going to heaven."

Do the children of God therefore go to hell?

If the above statement (in larger letters) does not bother you, then I just wonder about your moral rectitude as a believer.

This along the lines of the subject of whether repentance is needed for salvation.

 

[Grailhunter]

Do you have an issue with transliterating? It's a lot easier for me to type that way.



But this sounds like you're saying, forget the words studies, this is what it means so that's that. OK.

But to answer your question, what are we going to do with Koine Greek word metanoeo? Understand it. Are you thinking I'm bringing in modern Greek or something?


I believe in availing myself of both, don't you think that's good? Books and college.


Words can be used to say many things, and btw, try to prove that negative.

But this is what is taught in Scripture.

Much love!

Ok, this is going in a circle. Count me out.