justbyfaith
Well-Known Member
There are those who produce heresies (such as Universalism) and that is what the Bible is for...to defend the truth as it exists on every subject.
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
u·ni·ver·sal·ismThere are those who produce heresies (such as Universalism) and that is what the Bible is for...to defend the truth as it exists on every subject.
'Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,There's a condition for Israel's future salvation. It depends on their belief on Jesus Christ as Messiah once God removes the blindness He put upon them. No one is automatically saved just by blood birth. We learn that even back in Old Testament times as only the believing remnant of Israel saved were under God's grace and election.
Calvinism is the idea that our fates are already chosen for us, i.e., that we believe on Jesus because God called us to believe before the foundation of this world (Ephesians 2). That is actually true, for 'some', like the OT Patriarchs, prophets, and Christ's Apostles. That is even shown in John 17, but John 17 also reveals a 2nd group that believe from the preaching by Christ's sent Apostles. Then Jesus prayed that we all become one in Him and The Father, one Body.
Thus there is an election according to grace like Paul taught, Paul himself being one of them, as Christ divinely intervened in his life and converted him. But the rest of us who come to believe on Jesus by our own free will, we are called, but not chosen like Paul, the Apostles and OT saints. This is why it's up to us to work out our own salvation by staying in Christ Jesus all the way to the end of this world. But for those who are chosen elect, like Paul, Christ will divinely intervene in their lives, even like Jonah who tried to get out of his duty he was chosen for by God.
In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.
Warnings about losing eternal life
Luke 9:23-25 ● “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself,
and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will
lose it (eternal life), but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit
is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost (eternally)?”
.
In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.
Warnings about gaining eternal death
Romans 6:16-23 ● “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves)
of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness”
.
In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.
Warnings about being shut out of the kingdom of God
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ● “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit
the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous,
nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
.
* I do not agree with your summation here, @dave. Yet, I cannot respond to it at the moment, being called upon to do something else by my husband at the moment, which requires that I go off-line. Hopefully, I will be able to return to it when I am free.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Note that you had to add 'eternal'.
This is not about gaining or losing eternal life. It is about a believer not letting sin have dominion over him. (Rom. 6:14) The believer is under grace. But does that mean he should sin just because he is not under law? (14-15) Of course not. If you yield yourself a servant to one, then his servant you are. (16) Even as a believer. If we yield ourselves as to sins of the flesh, then we become servants of the flesh. And death works in us as opposed to righteousness.
'Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
Having pre-destinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
(Ephesians 1:1-6)
Hello @Davy,
With respect I do not share your understanding expressed in the last two paragraphs of your entry.
I believe that God, loved and fore-ordained the Lord Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world (John 17:24 & 1 Peter 1:20): and that Paul in writing to 'the faithful in Christ Jesus' (their risen and glorified Head) tells them that they too have not only been blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: but were also 'chosen' 'in Him' 'before the foundation of the world'; that they should be 'holy and without blame' before Him in love. He pre-destined them, unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself: this was according to the good pleasure of His will; and was to the praise of the glory of His grace; wherein He had made them accepted in the Beloved.
wow, ten days old and i am the first like? wth?In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.
Warnings about losing eternal life
Luke 9:23-25 ● “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself,
and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will
lose it (eternal life), but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit
is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost (eternally)?”
Warnings about gaining eternal death
Romans 6:16-23 ● “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves)
of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness”
Warnings about being shut out of the kingdom of God
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ● “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit
the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous,
nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Warnings about being shut out of the New Jerusalem
Revelation 22:14-15 ● “Blessed are those who do His commandments,
that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through
the gates of the city. But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually
immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”
Warnings about being blotted out of the Book of Life
Revelation 3:5 ● “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life”
Please note: the “overcomer” of 1 John 5:4-5 only overcomes “the world”,
which is the world of unbelievers in John’s writings!
Warnings about NOT being an overcomer
Revelation 21:7-8 ● “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his
God and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the
lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Please note: in Revelation 3:21, Jesus defines who an “overcomer” is!
Warnings in conditional “IF” verses
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 ● “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel
… by which you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you
unless you believed in vain.”
Warnings about failing to remain in Jesus and produce fruit
John 15:1-10 ● “I am the true grapevine, and My Father is the gardener.
He (Father God) cuts off every branch of Mine (Jesus) that doesn’t produce fruit,
… Anyone who does not remain in Me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.”
Warnings about not loving and obeying Jesus
John 14:15-23 ● “If you love Me, keep My commandments …
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me
… If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
He who does not love Me does not keep My words”
Who gets into heaven who does NOT love Jesus?
Warnings about falling away from the faith
Hebrews 10:36-39 ● “ ‘Now the just shall live by faith;
but IF anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.’
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition”
.
you sound so confident and sure, jbf. this makes it harder to take you seriously wadr.There are those who produce heresies (such as Universalism) and that is what the Bible is for...to defend the truth as it exists on every subject.
narf, good one.God is real and makes sense.
every knee will bow, every tongue confess maybe?The doctrine of universalism does not make any sense. How would that work? How could that work?
awesome, can you recall his name? tyI once had a preacher tell me that reasoning and logic cannot be applied to the scriptures or God!
ty, could you rectify this with No Son of Man may die for another's sins so that i might get a clearer pov of your system? tyHis atoning sacrifice was for sins of the whole world. That system.
great stuff for the most part imo, ty.Now, that being done, as Christian, our sins are between us and Christ, as members of the family of God.
You and I are going to sin,
Oh I know, you are not saved by works or deeds.
Yet you seem to imply otherwise? Can you Quote "No Universalists will inherit the kingdom" bro?
tyNot necessarily. btw, the doctrine of the inevitablity of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.
ah well we are functioning under diff defs of "saved" so i will demur there.But I do know someone who I believe is born again who later fell for the doctrine of Universalism; and I don't believe that they lost their salvation because of it. I do think that they will miss out on some rewards, because I don't think they have the motivation to deliver certain people from hell.
Do you think that God is going to end up in that pit?if you dig a pit for others, you end up in it yourself
i think you are deflecting in order to avoid the point of the verse, jbf, and i am convinced that hell as you understand it was invented/translated into our Scripture by Norse-Angle scribes who had no better euphemism for the spiritual concept. Which can now be berified online in about five minutes, by anyone. Gehenna is on erets, see. Is hell there too, in our common conception?Do you think that God is going to end up in that pit?
As a matter of fact, He already died and rose again.
priceless, i tell ya.There are those who produce heresies (such as Universalism) and that is what the Bible is for...to defend the truth as it exists on every subject.
so did we. supposedly; at baptism, right?As a matter of fact, He already died and rose again.
Not necessarily. btw, the doctrine of the inevitablity of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.
However, once you are saved you cannot help but do good works or deeds. Consider:
1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Jas 4:17, Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
I wouldn't make such a quote because I don't believe that such is the case. A Universalist who casts themselves upon Christ for salvation is saved.
I will say that the doctrine of Universalism is not conducive to such a thing. In their minds, there is nothing to be saved from.
But I do know someone who I believe is born again who later fell for the doctrine of Universalism; and I don't believe that they lost their salvation because of it. I do think that they will miss out on some rewards, because I don't think they have the motivation to deliver certain people from hell.
It's good to note what Paul also said in Galatians 5, which goes with the Book of Romans where both set Christian doctrine.
In Galatians 5, Apostle Paul declares that IF... we walk by The Spirit, then we won't be doing anything against God's laws. He showed that only if we walk by The Spirit then are we dead to the law, and that means doing the good things which there is no law against.
But if we instead walk by our flesh, then we put ourselves back under the law, for even as he said in 1 Timothy 1, the law wasn't made for the righteous man, but for the sinner and ungodly.
It is especially that Galatians 5 chapter that shows us how to properly interpret those things in Romans. It means we have to be watchful against sin and repent when we do slip up and sin.
Living in freedom and victory does not make a person God; it does mean that he has been set free by the power of the Lord, see John 8:31-36.↑
You and I are going to sin,
Not necessarily. btw, the doctrine of the inevitability of sin is a false doctrine and heresy.
lol Not sure where you are going with this, but I will play along. If you remain sinless long enough we can build you an altar. Do you want it up on the mountain and do you like stone or wood? Are you going to be god or just a lord?
In the NT, there is a wide variety of warning-types against eternal security.
After all, variety is the spice of life!
Please forgive me for only posting one example for each warning-type.
Warnings about being shut out of the New Jerusalem
Revelation 22:14-15 ● “Blessed are those who do His commandments,
that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through
the gates of the city. But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually
immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”.