The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[Nondenom40]

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Again you cannot face up to your lies and that you were wrong.

I'm not wrong. You just want someone else to do your homework. Theres a word for that.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Again the FIRST PART OF THE VERSE

Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;

Okay -- show me how this illustrates that suffering will continue in Heaven.

 

[reformed1689]

Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;

Okay -- show me how this illustrates that suffering will continue in Heaven.

Did I say continue? No. But you said there is no evidence of any suffering in Heaven. Clearly, it is possible there is suffering, tears, until they are wiped away. There is no purgatory. We are cleansed by the blood. No further purificaiton is necessary after death. It's already washed.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Did I say continue? No. But you said there is no evidence of any suffering in Heaven. Clearly, it is possible there is suffering, tears, until they are wiped away. There is no purgatory. We are cleansed by the blood. No further purificaiton is necessary after death. It's already washed.

This is poetic language illustrating that there is NO suffering in Heaven.
HOW can there be suffering in Heaven when there is a complete absence of imperfection and evil??

This is BASIC theology.

 

[reformed1689]

This is poetic language illustrating that there is NO suffering in Heaven.
HOW can there be suffering in Heaven when there is a complete absence of imperfection and evil??

This is BASIC theology.

Ah, and now I have finally accomplished my goal, for you to admit not everything in Scripture is literal.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ah, and now I have finally accomplished my goal, for you to admit not everything in Scripture is literal.

WHO ever claimed that it was??

 

[reformed1689]

WHO ever claimed that it was??

You seem to think so with Purgatory, Transubstantiation, etc.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You seem to think so with Purgatory, Transubstantiation, etc.

That's because some things ARE literal and explicit in Scripture - like the Eucharist. Purgatory is more implicit in Scripture.

Are you NOT aware that Scripture is BOTH literal AND figurative??

 

[reformed1689]

That's because some things ARE literal and explicit in Scripture - like the Eucharist. Purgatory is more implicit in Scripture.

Are you NOT aware that Scripture is BOTH literal AND figurative??

Oh I am aware. But the Eucharist is not the literal flesh and blood of Christ. So apparently youdon't know what is literal and what is figurative. I will ask you a question I asked another.

If the bread and wine turn into the actual flesh and blood of Christ, what happens when it goes through digestion? Do we then expel Christ in waste? Does it magically disappear? What is the purpose? And we does Christ need sacrificed again? He already said "It is finished."

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh I am aware. But the Eucharist is not the literal flesh and blood of Christ. So apparently youdon't know what is literal and what is figurative. I will ask you a question I asked another.

If the bread and wine turn into the actual flesh and blood of Christ, what happens when it goes through digestion? Do we then expel Christ in waste? Does it magically disappear? What is the purpose? And we does Christ need sacrificed again? He already said "It is finished."

The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ under that appearance or “accidents” of bread and wine.
When the accidents of bread and wine cease to exist – so does the flesh and blood of Christ.

When you eat a bagel – the bagel ceases to exist when you chew it up and it winds up in your stomach. It is then broken down into nutrients and waste product. Didn’t you ever take biology in high school??

 

[reformed1689]

The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ under that appearance or “accidents” of bread and wine.
When the accidents of bread and wine cease to exist – so does the flesh and blood of Christ.

Please explain what this means, I'm not following you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Please explain what this means, I'm not following you.

I already explained it in scientific detail.
If you don't get it, I can't help you.

 

[reformed1689]

I already explained it in scientific detail.
If you don't get it, I can't help you.

In other words you won't explain it.

The bread and wine are not the literal flesh and blood of Christ. There is no need for continual sacrifice. Christ already said "It is finished." You want to be a canibal, ok.

As far as your stupid bagel analogy. The parts of the bagel are still there, they do not cease to exist. So if the bread/wine was flesh and blood parts of Christ still exist in your waste. I'm sorry, that is not biblical.

Not to mention, where does this flesh and blood of Christ come from? Is he being ripped apart in Heaven?

 

[BreadOfLife]

In other words you won't explain it.

The bread and wine are not the literal flesh and blood of Christ. There is no need for continual sacrifice. Christ already said "It is finished." You want to be a canibal, ok.

As far as your stupid bagel analogy. The parts of the bagel are still there, they do not cease to exist. So if the bread/wine was flesh and blood parts of Christ still exist in your waste. I'm sorry, that is not biblical.

Not to mention, where does this flesh and blood of Christ come from? Is he being ripped apart in Heaven?

The fact that YOU call yourself a “Preacher” is frightening.

You can believe that God merely SPOKE and the entire universe leapt into existence – but you can’t believe that He can transform Bread and Wine into His Body and Blood??
What a pathetic lack of faith you have.
And THANK YOU for calling me a “cannibal”. That is precisely what the pagan Romans called the Early Christians for believing in the Eucharist.
They referred to them as “cannibals” as they slaughtered them for their faith.

Thanks!

 

[Nondenom40]

Oh I am aware. But the Eucharist is not the literal flesh and blood of Christ. So apparently youdon't know what is literal and what is figurative. I will ask you a question I asked another.

If the bread and wine turn into the actual flesh and blood of Christ, what happens when it goes through digestion? Do we then expel Christ in waste? Does it magically disappear? What is the purpose? And we does Christ need sacrificed again? He already said "It is finished."

Well its worse than that. They teach their bread is actually the 'risen christ'!

1392 What material food produces in our bodily life, Holy Communion wonderfully achieves in our spiritual life. Communion with the flesh of the risen Christ, a flesh "given life and giving life through the Holy Spirit,"

How the risen Christ got on the cross in the first place is another in a long list of glaring contradictions of their church. But its not simply the 'body and blood' of christ. Its the body, blood, soul and divinity..

1374 The mode of Christ's presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as "the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend." In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained." "This presence is called 'real' - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be 'real' too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present."

They love their religious, flowery speech. So how does one consume a soul and divinity? Never got an answer to that one except the standard 'its a mystery'. Which is the usual thing they say when they don't have an answer.

I find it particularly funny that their 'god', can't speak, walk. It has to be carried, its inanimate. Reminds me of a verse or two.

Jer 10:3-5
3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion;
Because it is wood cut from the forest,
The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool.
4 "They decorate it with silver and with gold;
They fasten it with nails and with hammers
So that it will not totter.
5 "Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field are they,
And they cannot speak;
They must be carried,
Because they cannot walk!
Do not fear them,
For they can do no harm,
Nor can they do any good."
NASB

Hab 2:18-19

18 "What profit is the idol when its maker has carved it,
Or an image, a teacher of falsehood?
For its maker trusts in his own handiwork
When he fashions speechless idols.
19 "Woe to him who says to a piece of wood, 'Awake!'
To a dumb stone, 'Arise!'
And that is your teacher?
Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver,
And there is no breath at all inside it.
NASB

Reminds me of the catholic monstrance...a false idol.

 

[reformed1689]

You can believe that God merely SPOKE and the entire universe leapt into existence – but you can’t believe that He can transform Bread and Wine into His Body and Blood??

I never said he couldn't, I said he doesn't and never said he did.

 

[reformed1689]

The fact that YOU call yourself a “Preacher” is frightening.

Oh I preach the word and on Reformation Sunday I plan on preaching about the heresy of the Catholic church, indulgences, etc, and how we should thank God Martin Luther brought the truth to the world once again.

 

[Mungo]

Well its worse than that. They teach their bread is actually the 'risen christ'!
How the risen Christ got on the cross in the first place is another in a long list of glaring contradictions of their church. But its not simply the 'body and blood' of christ. Its the body, blood, soul and divinity..

The body of Christ is present in substance; the soul and divinity are present by concomitancy (association). The soul and divinity are not present in substance.

The most holy Eucharist has indeed this in common with the rest of the sacraments, that it is a symbol of a sacred thing, and is a visible form of an invisible grace; but there is found in the Eucharist this excellent and peculiar thing, that the other sacraments have then first the power of sanctifying when one uses them, whereas in the Eucharist, before being used, there is the Author Himself of sanctity. For the apostles had not as yet received the Eucharist from the hand of the Lord, when nevertheless Himself affirmed with truth that to be His own body which He presented (to them). And this faith has ever been in the Church of God, that, immediately after the consecration, the veritable Body of our Lord, and His veritable Blood, together with His soul and divinity, are under the species of bread and wine; but the Body indeed under the species of bread, and the Blood under the species of wine, by the force of the words; but the body itself under the species of wine, and the blood under the species of bread, and the soul under both, by the force of that natural connexion and concomitancy whereby the parts of Christ our Lord, who hath now risen from the dead, to die no more, are united together; and the divinity, furthermore, on account of the admirable hypostatical union thereof with His body and soul. Wherefore it is most true, that as much is contained under either species as under both; for Christ whole and entire is under the species of bread, and under any part whatsoever of that species; likewise the whole (Christ) is under the species of wine, and under the parts thereof.
(Council of Trent , Session 13, chapter III)

I find it particularly funny that their 'god', can't speak, walk. It has to be carried, its inanimate. Reminds me of a verse or two.

Reminds me of the catholic monstrance...a false idol.

DIVERSION ALERT!!!

 

[Nondenom40]

The body of Christ is present in substance; the soul and divinity are present by concomitancy (association). The soul and divinity are not present in substance.

The most holy Eucharist has indeed this in common with the rest of the sacraments, that it is a symbol of a sacred thing, and is a visible form of an invisible grace; but there is found in the Eucharist this excellent and peculiar thing, that the other sacraments have then first the power of sanctifying when one uses them, whereas in the Eucharist, before being used, there is the Author Himself of sanctity. For the apostles had not as yet received the Eucharist from the hand of the Lord, when nevertheless Himself affirmed with truth that to be His own body which He presented (to them). And this faith has ever been in the Church of God, that, immediately after the consecration, the veritable Body of our Lord, and His veritable Blood, together with His soul and divinity, are under the species of bread and wine; but the Body indeed under the species of bread, and the Blood under the species of wine, by the force of the words; but the body itself under the species of wine, and the blood under the species of bread, and the soul under both, by the force of that natural connexion and concomitancy whereby the parts of Christ our Lord, who hath now risen from the dead, to die no more, are united together; and the divinity, furthermore, on account of the admirable hypostatical union thereof with His body and soul. Wherefore it is most true, that as much is contained under either species as under both; for Christ whole and entire is under the species of bread, and under any part whatsoever of that species; likewise the whole (Christ) is under the species of wine, and under the parts thereof.
(Council of Trent , Session 13, chapter III)

More religious psychobabble. Jesus indwells His people, not food. The bible says nothing what your very fallible man made councils do.

DIVERSION ALERT!!!

Blasphemy alert!!!!

 

[Mungo]

More religious psychobabble. Jesus indwells His people, not food. The bible says nothing what your very fallible man made councils do.

Translation : I'm stupid. I can't understand it.