Halloween Street Preaching

[Prayer Warrior]

Maybe the difference between us all is in the way or reason we came to the Lord!!

I DID NOT get preached hell and an angry God.

I had no preacher ...I was at the sink...What I asked God that day was ..
" How can I know for sure that I will forever be with You , I don't want to go through life without knowing if I will be in Heaven. " ( I was 22)

I had been to church with my mum from age 4 and loved the feeling of God. ( not sure if I knew what His Presence was...I just felt it in church as the hymns were sung)

My drawing was to be WITH Him...not some deep seated fear of burning in hell.

I agree with @Jane_Doe22 It was the longing for Him Himself that drew me...not some fear of a wrathful God.
And as I walk this walk, it is STILL the love for His Presence which draw me on...not some fear of falling back.

Obviously by your posts , you were only saved to escape hell. View attachment 7782

Nope, not at all. But I do know that escaping eternal punishment can be a reason, or part of the reason, that people turn to God.

Edit: I keep thinking about the sermon by Jonathan Edwards, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God." Evidently, many who heard this sermon were moved to sorrow and repentance.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I see what you're saying. I have two observations. First, I would say that our motives are often a mixture of not wanting to be punished AND feeling sorry over our sin, not either/or..

This is true, however the fear motivation the sinful natural man and is toxic for a relationship and should be fought against. It should never be encouraged as a abuser or Hell-focused preacher would do.

Second, and most importantly, your analogy involves a "daughter." Those who are saved are God's children, so hopefully, when we sin, we experience godly sorrow that results from the conviction of the Holy Spirit who indwells us. That is, unless we quench the Spirit. However, the lost are not God's children, so your analogy breaks down at this point.
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I didn't say anything about classing people into different categories. This applies to ALL people: ALL people should be taught lovingly as (as my husband did to daughter) and come to the Father out of love. It's never ok to use fear based tactics in a relationship.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

This is true, however the fear motivation the sinful natural man and is toxic for a relationship and should be fought against. It should never be encouraged as a abuser or Hell-focused preacher would do.

I didn't say anything about classing people into different categories. This applies to ALL people: ALL people should be taught lovingly as (as my husband did to daughter) and come to the Father out of love. It's never ok to use fear based tactics in a relationship.

This is your opinion, but I have seen God work differently.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

This is your opinion, but I have seen God work differently.

Have you seen as I've seen: people leaving God completely because of spiritual abuse from Hell-preachers?
Or people who are a church regularly, but have no real relationship with God, but are there for fire insurance?

 

[Giuliano]

God became a Man in Jesus Christ. So yes, God has a physical finger.

I can't believe you wrote this. Do you seriously think Jesus was in a physical body at the time of Moses? Do you think a human figure could write in stone? You ignored my point, and made this irrelevant comment. Why? Do you enjoy conflict? Are you more interested in trying to prove me wrong than in searching out the truth? What sort of foolishness would I get if I cited Job?

Job 21:24 His breasts are full of milk, and his bones are moistened with marrow.

Obviously a metaphor. Many descriptions of God are metaphors since human language is inadequate. I repeat the "wrath" of God is a metaphor; and we ought not believe it is like the wrath of men.

Romans 1 speaks of the testimony and light of creation. Men are without excuse. Romans 2 speaks of the light of conscience. If someone obeys the first light they will receive the 2nd. If someone receives the 1st two lights, they will be given the third...the light of Christ, Romans 3...even as Abraham obeyed the 1st two lights and God showed up in his life.

Paul frequently confuses me; and saying men are without excuse confuses me. When he gets around to talking about love, he makes more sense.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

That is love, not condemnation. Later in that chapter, he also says:

Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

He seems to be sending mixed signals to me. He looks more confused later:

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Is that his excuse? Non-Christians have no excuse, but Christians can say, "Nope, I didn't sin, that was the sin that dwells in me." As I said, Paul confuses me.

Yes, those who are obedient to Jesus are His true servants. Those who have not received Him are dead in trespasses and sins, Ephesians 2:1. Therefore, if someone has not received Him, they cannot obey Him, their only inclination is towards disobedience.

It doesn't say that. It says that previously they had "walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience." It doesn't say their only inclination was towards disobedience.

No, they cannot do that; for they are dead in trespasses and sins, Ephesians 2:1, 2 Corinthians 5:14.

How could they choose Jesus if their only impulse was wrong? Let's be clear. Almost everyone has both good and bad impulses. The problem without Jesus is that people tend to see the world as so overwhelmingly evil, they believe they have to be evil too in order to survive. Jesus says, "It's safe to become like a child again, wanting to love and to do the right thing."

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

That is part of the Gospel, part of the Good News. It is safe to be like an innocent child. And you know what? Most people secretly want a world where they can love and be loved. Jesus says it's possible. Do this, and God will take care of you. Even if men kill your physical body, God will save you; and you will a wonderful citizen of Heaven since you embrace the message of Love.

People use the evil of this world as an excuse. It is a ploy of the Dark Side to make men and women afraid of trying to be good in an evil world. Jesus can remove that fear of the world. It's good news. Therefore we should not be condemning men for their unloving acts; we should be telling them there is a way of out of the misery of this world. There is a better place. . . if we are willing to become better ourselves. If Jesus could allow himself to be crucified without resisting and could even pray for those who crucified him, we can feel it safe to follow him. If God could raise him up in the resurrection, what is there to fear?

 

[Giuliano]

@Giuliano

You seem to know your way around the Bible pretty well. No doubt, you're familiar with the bowls or vials of wrath mentioned in Revelation that will be poured out on the earth.

Rev 16:1-14--
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

And peace follows soon thereafter with the ushering in of the Thousand Year Reign.

 

[Giuliano]

Also, we would be neglectful of our duty as preachers of the gospel if we were to omit the warnings against hell that are included in the word of the Lord, in our preaching.

I suggest you go through the Gospels to see who gets threatened by Jesus with the worst punishment. To whom much is given, much is required. That goes for people who say they accept Jesus as their master. Jesus threatens his unfaithful servants with the most severe punishment. Don't take my word for it -- do the study for yourself.

There may be some very surprised holier-than-thou type of Christians on Judgment Day -- they remind me of the Pharisees of Jesus' day. They give religion a bad name. I would never have chosen to be a Christian if I thought I had to be like that street preacher to please Jesus.

 

[Giuliano]

This is fallacious reasoning, pure and simple. I have warned unrepentant sinners about hell. Am I a wife beater?? (I wasn't even a husband beater before my husband died.)

Edit: If someone were walking toward a cliff and was about to fall to his death, would I be considered abusive if I yelled at the person to stop? The is what Christians must do for those who are headed to hell! It would be hatred NOT to warn them.

This analogy is silly. The person about to walk off a cliff could see easily you were right. He would thank you. If someone is having fun on Halloween, he's not going to see you screaming at him as being helpful. He's going to see you as a maniac.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Have you seen as I've seen: people leaving God completely because of spiritual abuse from Hell-preachers?
Or people who are a church regularly, but have no real relationship with God, but are there for fire insurance?

I know that people miss salvation for many different reasons. I've heard plenty say that they are turned off from God because of all the hypocrites in church....

After grappling with the whole issue of salvation for many years (how it all works), I have come to understand that those who will be saved will be saved no matter what. IOW, nothing (not even street preachers) will be able to dissuade them from coming to God on His terms and receiving salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ--His finished work of the cross.

As harsh as this may sound, on Judgment Day, people who have rejected God's provision, will not have any excuse at all. They will not be able to blame the street preachers or the hypocrites or anyone for their choice. And I do believe that everyone is given the choice about how they will spend eternity. But like I said earlier, Jesus said that many would make the wrong choice.

You need to understand that those who hate God would not be happy in heaven because every inch of heaven is full of who He is. And no one can survive His holy presence unless they have been made righteous by the blood of Jesus Christ.

The main issue here seems to be the denial of God's wrath. In human terms, His love and wrath seem completely incompatible, but not in God's terms. He is who He is, and in His written Word, He has revealed that He is both a God of love AND wrath. Some don't think it should be this way, but who are we to try and make God acceptable to our way of thinking? Doing this always results in wrong doctrine or downright heresy. The truth is that we must come to God as His is and on His terms.

I will not limit God as to how He works in an individual's heart to bring them to repentance. He knows exactly what will work IF anything will work.

I think this article explains God's wrath pretty well. What is the biblical understanding of the wrath of God? | GotQuestions.org
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[Jane_Doe22]

I know that people miss salvation for many different reasons. I've heard plenty say that they are turned off from God because of all the hypocrites in church....

After grappling with the whole issue of salvation for many years (how it all works), I have come to understand that those who will be saved will be saved no matter what. IOW, nothing (not even street preachers) will be able to dissuade them from coming to God on His terms and receiving salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ--His finished work of the cross.

As harsh as this may sound, on Judgment Day, people who have rejected God's provision, will not have any excuse at all. They will not be able to blame the street preachers or the hypocrites or anyone for their choice. And I do believe that everyone is given the choice about how they will spend eternity. But like I said earlier, Jesus said that many would make the wrong choice.

You need to understand that those who hate God would not be happy in heaven because every inch of heaven is full of who He is. And no one can survive His holy presence unless they have been made righteous by the blood of Jesus Christ.

The main issue here seems to be the denial of God's wrath. In human terms, His love and wrath seem completely incompatible, but not in God's terms. He is who He is, and in His written Word, He has revealed that He is both a God of love AND wrath. Some don't think it should be this way, but who are we to try and make God acceptable to our way of thinking? Doing this always results in wrong doctrine or downright heresy. The truth is that we must come to God as His is and on His terms.

I will not limit God as to how He works in an individual's heart to bring them to repentance. He knows exactly what will work IF anything will work.

I think this article explains God's wrath pretty well. What is the biblical understanding of the wrath of God? | GotQuestions.org
.

The main issue here is not denying of God's wrath.

It's using God's judgment as an excuse to abuse people and paint God as a wrathful monster. It is those types of preachers-- those that capitalize on fear and hatred and burning/cliff/drowning analogies that I am speaking out against. It is not of God, nor does it makes genuine disciples of God, it only makes beaten children terrified of a father figure.

 

[Giuliano]

I know that people miss salvation for many different reasons. I've heard plenty say that they are turned off from God because of all the hypocrites in church....

After grappling with the whole issue of salvation for many years (how it all works), I have come to understand that those who will be saved will be saved no matter what. IOW, nothing (not even street preachers) will be able to dissuade them from coming to God on His terms and receiving salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ--His finished work of the cross.

As harsh as this may sound, on Judgment Day, people who have rejected God's provision, will not have any excuse at all. They will not be able to blame the street preachers or the hypocrites or anyone for their choice. And I do believe that everyone is given the choice about how they will spend eternity. But like I said earlier, Jesus said that many would make the wrong choice.

You need to understand that those who hate God would not be happy in heaven because every inch of heaven is full of who He is. And no one can survive His holy presence unless they have been made righteous by the blood of Jesus Christ.

The main issue here seems to be the denial of God's wrath. In human terms, His love and wrath seem completely incompatible, but not in God's terms. He is who He is, and in His written Word, He has revealed that He is both a God of love AND wrath. Some don't think it should be this way, but who are we to try and make God acceptable to our way of thinking? Doing this always results in wrong doctrine or downright heresy. The truth is that we must come to God as His is and on His terms.

I will not limit God as to how He works in an individual's heart to bring them to repentance. He knows exactly what will work IF anything will work.

I think this article explains God's wrath pretty well. What is the biblical understanding of the wrath of God? | GotQuestions.org
.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Really, Giuliano? You think I'm judging and condemning others? If you think this, then you don't understand what I said.

Edit: What do you believe about God's wrath??

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The main issue here is not denying of God's wrath.

It's using God's judgment as an excuse to abuse people and paint God as a wrathful monster. It is those types of preachers-- those that capitalize on fear and hatred and burning/cliff/drowning analogies that I am speaking out against. It is not of God, nor does it makes genuine disciples of God, it only makes beaten children terrified of a father figure.

I'm sure that there are "those types of preachers," but I don't believe that all preachers who talk about the wrath of God are capitalizing on hatred and fear as you have concluded.

Do you believe that God never displays wrath?

 

[Giuliano]

Really, Giuliano? You think I'm judging and condemning others? If you think this, then you don't understand what I said.

Why do you imagine that? My response was a response to what you wrote.

You posted: "After grappling with the whole issue of salvation for many years (how it all works), I have come to understand that those who will be saved will be saved no matter what. IOW, nothing (not even street preachers) will be able to dissuade them from coming to God on His terms and receiving salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ--His finished work of the cross.

"As harsh as this may sound, on Judgment Day, people who have rejected God's provision, will not have any excuse at all. They will not be able to blame the street preachers or the hypocrites or anyone for their choice. And I do believe that everyone is given the choice about how they will spend eternity. But like I said earlier, Jesus said that many would make the wrong choice."

Is it the way you said? I don't think so. Now that I think of it though, telling people they were going to hell sounds pretty judgmental and condemning; and I doubt you convinced many people into becoming Christians. I feel fairly sure many of them did think you were being judgmental and condemning.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Is it the way you said? I don't think so. Now that I think of it though, telling people they were going to hell sounds pretty judgmental and condemning; and I doubt you convinced many people into becoming Christians. I feel fairly sure many of them did think you were being judgmental and condemning.

I don't EVER tell people that they ARE going to hell. What do you know about me and my life other than what I've shared on this forum, huh?? You have judged me plenty.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Why do you imagine that? My response was a response to what you wrote.

You posted: "After grappling with the whole issue of salvation for many years (how it all works), I have come to understand that those who will be saved will be saved no matter what. IOW, nothing (not even street preachers) will be able to dissuade them from coming to God on His terms and receiving salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ--His finished work of the cross.

"As harsh as this may sound, on Judgment Day, people who have rejected God's provision, will not have any excuse at all. They will not be able to blame the street preachers or the hypocrites or anyone for their choice. And I do believe that everyone is given the choice about how they will spend eternity. But like I said earlier, Jesus said that many would make the wrong choice."

Is it the way you said? I don't think so. Now that I think of it though, telling people they were going to hell sounds pretty judgmental and condemning; and I doubt you convinced many people into becoming Christians. I feel fairly sure many of them did think you were being judgmental and condemning.

I asked you a question, but you may not have seen it. What do you believe about God's wrath?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm sure that there are "those types of preachers," but I don't believe that all preachers who talk about the wrath of God are capitalizing on hatred and fear as you have concluded.

If they're using fear/threats to motivate people, then by definition they are using fear/threats as their primary force.

Do you believe that God never displays wrath?

That's not the subject here.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

That's not the subject here.

lol

The subject is street preachers preaching God's wrath, so I'm asking you if you believe that God ever displays His wrath. What do you believe about God's wrath?

 

[Giuliano]

I don't EVER tell people that they ARE going to hell. What do you know about me and my life other than what I've shared on this forum, huh?? You have judged me plenty.

I can only go by what you have written here.

This is fallacious reasoning, pure and simple. I have warned unrepentant sinners about hell. Am I a wife beater?? (I wasn't even a husband beater before my husband died.)

Edit: If someone were walking toward a cliff and was about to fall to his death, would I be considered abusive if I yelled at the person to stop? The is what Christians must do for those who are headed to hell! It would be hatred NOT to warn them.

You wrote it. Own it.

I asked you a question, but you may not have seen it. What do you believe about God's wrath?

I already answered that a while ago on page 13.

I believe I already explained what the "wrath" of God means. It is very much like the shepherd taking on ravenous predators. It is an expression of the Love of God for the innocent. God is not punishing the guilty out of anger but in order to establish peace for the sheep. God is always willing that the guilty come to repentance. He does not want to punish anyone.

It has nothing to do with making God feel rejected. God is not emotionally insecure. The problem is that when we reject God, we are rejecting Love; and that shows up then in how we treat others.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

You wrote it. Own it.

Warning people about hell is not the same as telling them that THEY ARE GOING TO HELL!