The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[Taken]

From miram webster:
: to continue in a place : SOJOURN. will abide in the house of the Lord

So then can God 'continue in Mary's womb' unless there be no sin?
Can God abide in sin?

Peace!

Mary was EXPRESSLY notified: The Lord was "With" her.

God abode in Mary's Virgin Unblemished Womb....and Departed her Womb, according to the Law of Nature. (as Scripture teaches to fulfill Gods WILL, that event was necessary)

The Lord has EXPRESSLY been "WITH" many others before and after Mary.

The good news is The Spirit of the Lord can Become IN a mans Heart, Once and FOREVER.

That ^ occurred for Mary on the same day it occurred For Jesus' FAITHFUL disciples After Jesus rose up, Back to Heaven.

Jesus was in Mary's Womb...Not Christ.
Jesus came forth from Mary's Womb, Not Christ.

Jesus was revealed...the Lord, Jewish Teacher, Leading men with Knowledge of Salvation and HOW TO Gain the GIFT of Salvation.
Christ was revealed...during Jesus' ministry.
Christ was revealed The Saviour and Quickening Spirit...
With the Knowledge...
The Spirit WOULD NOT Quicken Faithful mankind...Until Jesus returned to Heaven.

Mary, like all of mankind required a Saviour.
Mary, like other BELIEVING Faithful followers of Jesus' Teaching BECAME Quickened...After Jesus rose up back to Heaven.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CovenantPromise]

Now I am going to build upon my point made to David about Wisdom being given to The Elect mother of Christ in FULL!
Notice something? Proverbs 9:
The Way of Wisdom
1Wisdom has built her house;
she has carved out her seven pillars.

Let me ask anyone , what is first Pillars or the foundation?
Clearly , the foundation. Who is the foundation according to the Elder Paul? Jesus Christ! So with that knowledge we can safely say that the PILLARS were built after the FOUNDATION was laid.
1 Corinthians 3:10-12
Christ Our Foundation
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw,…
Pillars are considered to be precious gems, they are strong and lend support for the House of God.

I am going to prove that many of the Proverbs and Psalms and Ecclesiastes are prophecies and Sirach , Baruch etc.. Foretold Wisdom becoming a Woman.

 

[CovenantPromise]

Mary was EXPRESSLY notified: The Lord was "With" her.

God abode in Mary's Virgin Unblemished Womb....and Departed her Womb, according to the Law of Nature. (as Scripture teaches to fulfill Gods WILL, that event was necessary)

The Lord has EXPRESSLY been "WITH" many others before and after Mary.

The good news is The Spirit of the Lord can Become IN a mans Heart, Once and FOREVER.

That ^ occurred for Mary on the same day it occurred For Jesus' FAITHFUL disciples After Jesus rose up, Back to Heaven.

Jesus was in Mary's Womb...Not Christ.
Jesus came forth from Mary's Womb, Not Christ.

Jesus was revealed...the Lord, Jewish Teacher, Leading men with Knowledge of Salvation and HOW TO Gain the GIFT of Salvation.
Christ was revealed...during Jesus' ministry.
Christ was revealed The Saviour and Quickening Spirit...
With the Knowledge...
The Spirit WOULD NOT Quicken Faithful mankind...Until Jesus returned to Heaven.

Mary, like all of mankind required a Saviour.
Mary, like other BELIEVING Faithful followers of Jesus' Teaching BECAME Quickened...After Jesus rose up back to Heaven.


Glory to God,
Taken

Sure the Lord has been with many others before Mother Mary but SHE IS BLESSED AMONG WOMEN - that means all women. So there is something unique and exceptional that God has done for her that was done for no other. Clearly you point out ONE exceptional thing (THE VIRGIN CONCEPTION) Immaculate because it is by the Holy Spirit. So, that for one proves she is the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION for who else was given such a Conception? 2. She would have to abide in receiving the Holy Seed because John the Beloved ( who interestingly , was given the care of the Mother of Christ) said so. That means she is a VIRGIN soul, a Holy Righteous, unblemished vessel according to Paul, because she is righteous because Christ is. I mean really , your point? Clearly she would have to be the FIRST to be what the apostles all say our end game is- Immaculate= Virgin , unblemished, unsoiled ,chaste followers of Christ ! Clearly!

 

[Taken]

Taken,
Again the seven Pillars are....

Did I shutter?

I do not know you.
I have No interest in your flimsy accusation and lectures.

Precisely identify my word(s) that have set you on an accusatory mission.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[reformed1689]

It seems you better stick with English because that has even proven hard for you. You will definitely fail with the Greek and Hebrew .

In other words, you can't do so.

 

[Taken]

"BOL will only accept what the RCC teaches. It doesn't matter if they are proven wrong from Scripture BOL will automatically reject it because of the RCC."


REALLY?

Yes REALLY!

BOL was WHO the comment Applied!
Yes BOL has himself revealed his doctrine is Catholic.
YOU can disagree and Tell BOL himself what he Believes and Follows. LOL

And you? It is clear you ONLY accept Protestant nonsense !

And How did THAT become clear TO YOU?

Did I at ANY Time Tell You I ONLY Accept Protestant Nonsense?

Glory to God? How can you say that when you reject most all He teaches.

Prove it! Lest you be a false accuser and liar.

Use My Words...NOT your Words.

I'll wait.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

THAT WORD DOES NOT MEAN SINLESS.

LOL.. uh huh, because it doesn't exist.
Explicit or Implied.

Glory to God,
Taken

It’s funny – Mary’s title of “Kecharitomene” is like KRYPTONITE to both of you anti-Catholics.

You guys have been going back and forth about how “BOL won’t believe anything unless the Church says he should – even though we’ve proven him wrong!”
You guys haven’t proven anything.

I have BEGGED the both of you for a Scriptural refutation of Kecharitomene and the dozen or so Scriptural references to Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant – and YOU have responded iin cowardly fashion with:
"LOL!"
“Red Herring!
“I don’t have to refute that!”
“That doesn’t make her sinless!”
“She’s not the Ark of anything!”

If this were a publicly-moderated debate – BOTH of you would have been thrown out about 150 posts ago.

How about simply ADDRESSING the term Kecharitomene and its implications - and trying to SCRIPTURALLY REFUTE the comparison chart I presented showing Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant, hmmmm??

Just give it a try . . .

 

[CovenantPromise]

It’s funny – Mary’s title of “Kecharitomene” is like KRYPTONITE to both of you anti-Catholics.

You guys have been going back and forth about how “BOL won’t believe anything unless the Church says he should – even though we’ve proven him wrong!”
You guys haven’t proven anything.

I have BEGGED the both of you for a Scriptural refutation of Kecharitomene and the dozen or so Scriptural references to Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant – and YOU have responded iin cowardly fashion with:
"LOL!"
“Red Herring!
“I don’t have to refute that!”
“That doesn’t make her sinless!”
“She’s not the Ark of anything!”

If this were a publicly-moderated debate – BOTH of you would have been thrown out about 150 posts ago.

How about simply ADDRESSING the term Kecharitomene and its implications - and trying to SCRIPTURALLY REFUTE the comparison chart I presented showing Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant, hmmmm??

Just give it a try . . .

I Have to agree.

 

[CovenantPromise]

In other words, you can't do so.

No...... that means you clearly cannot understand plain and simple English yet demand people try using scripture in the Greek and Hebrew, which the spirit in me understands completely . For me to speak here in Greek and Hebrew would be futile because you do not understand them. And for sure English too is not your forte.

 

[CovenantPromise]

Yes REALLY!

BOL was WHO the comment Applied!
Yes BOL has himself revealed his doctrine is Catholic.
YOU can disagree and Tell BOL himself what he Believes and Follows. LOL




And How did THAT become clear TO YOU?

Did I at ANY Time Tell You I ONLY Accept Protestant Nonsense?



Prove it! Lest you be a false accuser and liar.

Use My Words...NOT your Words.

I'll wait.

Glory to God,
Taken

Okay I will prove it. What are the seven Pillars of wisdom?Now if you are simply playing devil's advocate to add interest to the discussion and bait Protestants, I can assure you I am not playing games. Christ does not L.A.R.P . Since you avoided the question before with deflection and smoke screen, please tell me the seven Pillars of Wisdom? I'll give you a hint, they are present in both the Catholic and Orthodox (in union and not in union with the Catholic pope) Churches.

 

[CovenantPromise]

Did I shutter?

I do not know you.
I have No interest in your flimsy accusation and lectures.

Precisely identify my word(s) that have set you on an accusatory mission.

Glory to God,
Taken

Clearly! Hence, why wisdom baffles you. "Flimsy accusations" and "lectures" hmm....seems no intelligent discussion will be had with you.

"Precisely identify my word(s) that have set you on an accusatory mission."

Words with no (substance)- KNOWN AS PROOF are accusations. Which is all you spew against what I post and what any follower in commonsense post. CLEARLY! As I said God appeals to our right reason.His equations have sums which make sense. Hence , why scripture is PROFITABLE for doctrine. But be careful how you build. Obviously God gives believers the ability to deduce SUMS based on the language and symbolism of His words. It makes perfect sense that mother Mary is the New Ark of the new and better Covenant simply based on who Christ is. Yet people like you go on a dumb blindness tour and deny the OBVIOUS language of the scriptures. If your doctrine makes no sense and contradicts the equation of the written word, it is simply hay , wood and straw . The foundation will burn it down and you then reap what you sow afterward. This is no dress rehearsal !

 

[reformed1689]

It’s funny – Mary’s title of “Kecharitomene” is like KRYPTONITE to both of you anti-Catholics.

You guys have been going back and forth about how “BOL won’t believe anything unless the Church says he should – even though we’ve proven him wrong!”
You guys haven’t proven anything.

I have BEGGED the both of you for a Scriptural refutation of Kecharitomene and the dozen or so Scriptural references to Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant – and YOU have responded iin cowardly fashion with:
"LOL!"
“Red Herring!
“I don’t have to refute that!”
“That doesn’t make her sinless!”
“She’s not the Ark of anything!”

If this were a publicly-moderated debate – BOTH of you would have been thrown out about 150 posts ago.

How about simply ADDRESSING the term Kecharitomene and its implications - and trying to SCRIPTURALLY REFUTE the comparison chart I presented showing Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant, hmmmm??

Just give it a try . . .

Again, it does not mean sinless. No way to twist it to mean sinless. The Greek does not mean sinless, the English does not mean sinless, goodness even the Latin doesn't mean sinless. The only thing that says it means sinless, or rather implies sinless, is the Catholic Church.

 

[reformed1689]

No...... that means you clearly cannot understand plain and simple English yet demand people try using scripture in the Greek and Hebrew, which the spirit in me understands completely . For me to speak here in Greek and Hebrew would be futile because you do not understand them. And for sure English too is not your forte.

Like I thought, you can't do it. I understand English fine. All you know is Catholic brainwashing.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Again, it does not mean sinless. No way to twist it to mean sinless. The Greek does not mean sinless, the English does not mean sinless, goodness even the Latin doesn't mean sinless. The only thing that says it means sinless, or rather implies sinless, is the Catholic Church.

WRONG.

When you have been completely and perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace – it means that you are without sin. You CAN be endowed with grace and still have sins – but you cannot be perfectly and completely endowed with grace and have sin.

Now – instead of simply calling this “Catholic poop” again or blowing it off – REFUTE what I just said.
REFUTE the idea that you cannot have sin when you have been perfectly and completely endowed with grace.

I await your response . . .

 

[CovenantPromise]

Like I thought, you can't do it. I understand English fine. All you know is Catholic brainwashing.

Some proof please ......YAWN.....something other than your empty accusations??? You do know all testimony must be accompanied by proof? Otherwise anyone can say this or that. How about some FACTS against what I said. Oh and news flash.....trying to divide scripture against scripture is futile.The scriptures are not a house divided. So it is clear that if there is support in one part of scripture for Mother Mary being the Ark of the new covenant ,then you try to apply something else from another part of scripture to denounce that ,then it is clear you do not understand what you post. The scriptures are one as God is one! Your interp then is faulty and is the ONE which causes division . Christ is God come in the flesh by Incarnating himself of Mother Mary's flesh. He is the Bread of life =manna which was present in the OC ark , it symbolizes Him. He is the rod of Aaron which budded that was present in the OC Ark , because He is the the rod of iron which shall dash all vessels and is REAL AUTHORITY. She was overshadowed by the Most High just as the OC Ark was. Dew was left upon the Ark of the OC which is cleansing water which God's Spirit does (Cleanse and purify) . This is the symbol of sanctification . This transcends to the NC Ark because she was Holy redeemed for this divine mission- BEING THE GOD BEARER!

 

[Nondenom40]

WRONG.

When you have been completely and perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace – it means that you are without sin. You CAN be endowed with grace and still have sins – but you cannot be perfectly and completely endowed with grace and have sin.

Now – instead of simply calling this “Catholic poop” again or blowing it off – REFUTE what I just said.
REFUTE the idea that you cannot have sin when you have been perfectly and completely endowed with grace.

I await your response . . .

You continue to repeat the same thing offering no proof other than your bolded opinion. I've talked about this about a week ago to someone else and it wasn't addressed, thats fine. So, can you cite a reputable lexical source that agrees with you? In Luke 1:28 the angel says she was favored. In verse 30 he reiterates and says....wait for it....wait for it.....shes favored!
Kecharitomene or charitoo does not mean sinless as Dave has said, it simply means favored. Regardless if its a past perfect it has nothing to do with sinlessness. Now there is a term in the greek n.t. for full of grace, and its not this word and it never occurs in Luke and its never spoken of regarding mary.

There is no inverse relationship between sin and grace. In fact its just the opposite;

Romans 5:20
20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

When sin goes up, so does grace. In your world where grace goes up, sin goes down. Scripture is against this idea of marys ic. I can list numerous verses where Jesus is specifically, clearly and plainly called sinless. Where is the equally clear verse regarding mary? There isn't one.

All youre doing is one big appeal to emotion because the idea is completely baseless and has zero foundation in Gods word.

 

[CovenantPromise]

I mentioned the gift that Ethiopia will bring to the Lord of Mount Zion. Since I do not just assume that people know what I am talking about, I will point out the scriptures which support what I say.See, they will come amidst a field of dead bodies which will be scattered upon the earth. The birds will feast from summer to winter on their dead bodies. This is the PAUSE in the tribulation events. The shortening of them for the Elect. What has come to be known as the 3Days of Darkness is the sixth seal of Rev.6:12.

Isaiah 18:
4For this is what the LORD has told me:

“I will quietly look on from My dwelling place,

like shimmering heat in the sunshine,

like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.” 5For before the harvest ( There is an event coming before His time-nod to the Wedding Feast at Canaan) , when the blossom is gone

and the flower becomes a ripening grape,

He will cut off the shoots with a pruning knife

and remove and discard the branches. 6They will all be left to the mountain birds of prey,

and to the beasts of the land.

The birds will feed on them in summer,

and all the wild animals in winter.

7At that time gifts will be brought to the LORD of Hosts—

from a people tall and smooth-skinned,

from a people widely feared,

from a powerful nation of strange speech,

whose land is divided by rivers—

to Mount Zion, the place of the Name of the LORD of Host,

This is the end result of the sixth seal. What gifts is Ethiopia bringing? I know they are not Protestant, sooooo, this should show Protestants they have a lot of things wrong. Just saying. This Isaiah prophecy has not happened yet. I know the meaning of Isaiah 18, but that is a message for those along the River banks (GIHON) of Cush -Ethiopians have long identified the Gihon (Giyon) with the Abay River (Blue Nile), which encircles the former kingdom of Gojjam.

YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT GOD HAS IN STORE FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM. The Scared and Immaculate hearts of Jesus and Mary will TRIUMPH! Rev. 19 the Hallelujah is a special time, IT IS THE WEDDING SUPPER OF THE LAMB (THE CUTTING SHORT OF THE TRIBULATION EVENTS FOR THE ELECT). Only God knows for how long the PAUSE WILL BE. He will gather the Elect to the land of Canaan, for they are the promised offspring of father Abraham. It is the fulfillment of the complete house of Israel and the joining together of the two sticks as one. This is before the second coming of the Lord, it is a MIRACLE before His Time = return (MYSTERY OF THE WEDDING FEAST AT CANAAN). Christ will be fully present over and IN His Elect people.

 

[reformed1689]

WRONG.

When you have been completely and perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace – it means that you are without sin. You CAN be endowed with grace and still have sins – but you cannot be perfectly and completely endowed with grace and have sin.

Now – instead of simply calling this “Catholic poop” again or blowing it off – REFUTE what I just said.
REFUTE the idea that you cannot have sin when you have been perfectly and completely endowed with grace.

I await your response . . .

Actually you have to burdens before you get to that.

1. You have to show that the word means completely and perfectly as opposed to just favored and endowed with grace. You have not met that burden.
2. You then have to show how being complete and perfectly full of grace equates sinless. You have not met that burden either. You just claim that it is so.

 

[Marymog]

No, Scripture is right and I am agreeing with Scripture. It is the Catholic church that is wrong.

If you agreed with Scripture (James 2:24) you wouldn't adhere to the teaching of faith alone.

 

[CovenantPromise]

Why does the

Actually you have to burdens before you get to that.

1. You have to show that the word means completely and perfectly as opposed to just favored and endowed with grace. You have not met that burden.
2. You then have to show how being complete and perfectly full of grace equates sinless. You have not met that burden either. You just claim that it is so.

Question what else is there, if one has not grace? The angel greeted her in the salutation he did because He clearly knows more about grace than you. The angel is genuflecting to Mother Mary. That is not something Lucifer did. He was the beautifully adorned Cherub who descended to the garden and ascended to the throne room of God and walked amidst the fiery pillars of God's sanctuary in heaven . He did not genuflect to Eve but set himself up as a replacement for God before Eve. Just like men do all the time with their FALSE doctrines. Gabriel ,an obedient angel is acknowledging what has been set in heaven in pronouncement -of what will be done. Hence, why Mother Mary says: Luke 1:37For no word from God will ever fail. ” 38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.” Then the angel left her.
"according to your WORD " ACCORDING TO YOUR WORD, not before but according to the WORD!