There Is No Purgatory. It Is Not In God's Character To Give 2nd Chances After We Leave Our Flesh

[jshiii]

That only applies to the Old Testament. No one sins under the New Covenant. Did you look at he references I provided for your edification?

False. No on can sin under the New Covenant. No one who is brought into the New Covenant can sin. Again, I provided proof texts. Did you look at them?

I totally AGREE with you!......But 1 thing, they have to have Christ as their representative in order to claim "No on can sin under the New Covenant. No one who is brought into the New Covenant can sin." In other words they choose Jesus Christ as their Savior. If they don't have Christ, they have Satan....and we know what Satan get's you? Eternal Damnation.

 

[jshiii]

To the OP your title is not what purgatory is. Purgatory is not a second chance but a cleansing as St. Paul says "as through fire". While I am not Catholic I do understand what they mean, though I do believe that CS Lewis put it:




Letters to Malcolm: Chiefly on Prayer, by C. S. Lewis

I hear you, but either way. One who has accepted Jesus Christ as their sole Savior, does not need cleansing (by any man made doctrine). They are already clean by Faith in Him (Jesus Christ)

 

[shnarkle]

I totally AGREE with you!...…

So you keep saying. I'm not so sure.

But 1 thing, they have to have Christ as their representative in order to claim "No on can sin under the New Covenant. No one who is brought into the New Covenant can sin."

And Paul explains that God has placed them under a spirit of slumber until the time of the Gentiles has been fulfilled. That obviously hasn't happened. What we have instead are a lot of people who claim Christ, but are deceived. They still sin. They are not under the new covenant.

In other words they choose Jesus Christ as their Savior.

False. No one chooses Christ. "No not one" is righteous. Christ chooses everyone. He points this out himself, "You did not choose me, I chose you".

If they don't have Christ, they have Satan....and we know what Satan get's you? Eternal Damnation.

The whole world is deceived. This whole world is run by Satan. It's literally a hell on earth, and no one gets out alive. More importantly, the Gentile population doesn't seem to be getting the message. Christians are especially vocal about the fact that they still sin. They obviously haven't gotten the message at all. They're obviously not anywhere near getting into the New Covenant. They talk the talk, but they haven't figure out how to walk the walk.

God says "that they may keep my commandments", and Christians almost unanimously agree that not only do they not keep God's commandments, but they justify themselves for their own disobedience, e.g. profaning the Sabbath, ignoring the dietary laws, justifying adultery, usury, etc. How can one have Christ when they defiantly disobey God?

Christ would point out that they're already damned.

 

[Ezra]

a cleansing as St. Paul says "as through fire".

the fire is a testing /refinement of works wood hay stubble flesh will not stand the fire gold silver precious stones comes through the fire the scripture ref is to the bema seat rewards

 

[Ezra]

I hear you, but either way. One who has accepted Jesus Christ as their sole Savior, does not need cleansing (by any man made doctrine). They are already clean by Faith in Him (Jesus Christ)

exactly why some want to add to is beyond me the Blood cleanses us. the atonement / redeemed

 

[Ezra]

False. No one chooses Christ. "No not one" is righteous. Christ chooses everyone. He points this out himself, "You did not choose me, I chose you".

yes and no he does give us the choice we can either accept him as he stands at the door and knock or we can reject and not open the door of our heart

 

[BreadOfLife]

This right here creates DOUBT, creates DISTRACTION. You need to come to the realization right now that

you will never leave this world even close to PERFECTION! Neither will I in and of my own self without Christ as my Savior. When my Heart takes its last beat.....

@BreadOfLife....My perfection is DONE, in Christ! (no prayers needed)

Sounds like a gigantic contradiction to me . . .

 

[Ezra]

Sounds like a gigantic contradiction to me . . .

how is it a contradiction ? the Blood covers all our sins perfection means complete .when we die in Christ our finial stage of sanctification / made Holy is complete.. there is no stopping off purgatory

 

[BreadOfLife]

garbage when you die its either heaven or hell ..best thing anyone can do is ignore your leaven bread doctrine

In 2 Macc. 42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verses 44-45 say, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.”

Matt. 5:25-26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.”

We are told in 1 Cor. 3:12-15 that the day (judgment) will disclose the foundation that a person builds upon and how it will be revealed: “If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”
There is NO suffering in Heaven, so this can't be referring to Heaven.
The person is eventually SAVED, so this can't be Hell.
This is talking about a THIRD state - Final Purification.

Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there is purification after death for some. Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

All of these verses point to the fact that those in Purgatory will suffer loss but will eventually be released (purified, purged from iniquity, saved).

Now - instead of your usual moronic insults - why don't you try to REFUTE what I just posted?

 

[BreadOfLife]

how is it a contradiction ? the Blood covers all our sins perfection means complete .when we die in Christ our finial stage of sanctification / made Holy is complete.. there is no stopping off purgatory

You cannot enter into Heaven if you are impure - period (Rev. 21:27).

Luther had his little myth about "snow-covered dunghills" entering Heaven based on the righteousness of Christ.
Christ doesn't "cover" us to make us "look" holy and pure - He MAKES us holy and pure.

THAT'S how we get into Heaven.

 

[Ezra]

instead of your usual moronic insults - why don't you try to REFUTE what I just posted?

no need once again 1 Cor. 3:12-15 is dealing with the bema judgement seat our works being tested by the fire .. this has nothing to do with purification or blaspheme . i warned to about your remarks..everytime someone disagrees and reproves you . the old insults come out ..i am down with you and your herisie teaching

 

[Ezra]

You cannot enter into Heaven if you are impure - period (Rev. 21:27).

Luther had his little myth about "snow-covered dunghills" entering Heaven based on the righteousness of Christ.
Christ doesn't "cover" us to make us "look" holy and pure - He MAKES us holy and pure.

THAT'S how we get into Heaven.

more garbage good by king of leaven bread

 

[BreadOfLife]

no need once again 1 Cor. 3:12-15 is dealing with the bema judgement seat our works being tested by the fire .. this has nothing to do with purification or blaspheme . i warned to about your remarks..everytime someone disagrees and reproves you . the old insults come out ..i am down with you and your herisie teaching

"Herisie"??

Once again - this passage refers to SUFFERING.
There is NO SUFFERING in Heaven - soooooooo, where is this taking place?

 

[BreadOfLife]

more garbage good by king of leaven bread

Gee - yet another NON-Scriptural response.
What a surprise . . .

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It's literally a hell on earth, and no one gets out alive

hell ...torment..yes. “No one gets out alive” 2 Corinthians 6:8-9
By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;

Christ would point out that they're already damned.

all flesh is damned (perishes). Where the Spirit is there is Life. Ephesians 5:29-30
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Have you ever considered the opportunity of Being given opportunity for a New thing before going in a casket and being buried. How God could come snatch one out and say your time has expired but instead the blessing of:
1 John 3:14-16 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. [15] Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. [16] Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

How can anyone say no second chances are given? Time is a second chance.
Philippians 1:23-24 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: [24] Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.


(1 Timothy 5:24-25) (Revelation 14:13)

 

[Ezra]

"Herisie"??

Once again - this passage refers to SUFFERING.
There is NO SUFFERING in Heaven - soooooooo, where is this taking place?

heres your sign

 

[Ezra]

hell ...torment..yes. “No one gets out alive” 2 Corinthians 6:8-9
By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;




all flesh is damned (perishes). Where the Spirit is there is Life. Ephesians 5:29-30
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Have you ever considered the opportunity of Being given opportunity for a New thing before going in a casket and being buried. How God could come snatch one out and say your time has expired but instead the blessing of:
1 John 3:14-16 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. [15] Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. [16] Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

How can anyone say no second chances are given? Time is a second chance.
Philippians 1:23-24 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: [24] Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.


(1 Timothy 5:24-25) (Revelation 14:13)

amen

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Old Testament laws do not hold against the New Covenant, but if one sins under the New Covenant, Christ's sacrifice will in no way cover that sin. Hebrews 10:26 Christ's sacrifice covers only sins committed under the Old Covenant which are sins committed before one receives a new heart to keep God's commandments. The explicit reason why those undre the New Covenant are no longer under condemnation is because they no longer sin. Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26; Hebrews 8:9,10

I totally AGREE with you!......But 1 thing, they have to have Christ as their representative in order to claim "No on can sin under the New Covenant. No one who is brought into the New Covenant can sin." In other words they choose Jesus Christ as their Savior. If they don't have Christ, they have Satan....and we know what Satan get's you? Eternal Damnation.

This is absolute nonsense.,
Being in the New Covenant is NOT a guarantee that you cannot sin.

Paul admitted that HE still sinned (Rom. 7:13-25)
John admitted that HE still had sin (1 John 1:8) - and said that if you claim you don't - then you don't have the truth in you.
Paul pointed out that Peter sinned (Gal 2:11-21)

Being in the New Covenant means that when we DO stumble - we have a way out, which is CHRIST.

 

[shnarkle]

hell ...torment..yes. “No one gets out alive” 2 Corinthians 6:8-9
By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;

I should have said, "no body gets out alive"

Have you ever considered the opportunity of Being given opportunity..etc.

I don't see what your point is with all of this.

How can anyone say no second chances are given?

They simply say it. They move their mouths and words come out. I never said there was no second chance. If you're damned, and then you're saved, that's a second chance.

Time is a second chance.

Time is an artificial concept.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I should have said, "no body gets out alive"

Get what you are saying.

I don't see what your point is with all of this.

I’m sorry. The point was Luke 12:16-20 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: [17] And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? [18] And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. [19] And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. [20] But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

You mentioned all the trash you had accumulated before. Just referencing as my own experience of being thankful God didn’t come and give no opportunity to see its trash. Considered also Saul and “the dung” ...but the opportunity given as Paul said “I count it all dung that I might win Christ.” That’s all. There was a young man I knew and we got the call early one morning he had overdosed. His life cut short in his early thirties. Did he get the full opportunity to move past the dung to something better. maybe he did.

They simply say it. They move their mouths and words come out. I never said there was no second chance. If you're damned, and then you're saved, that's a second chance.

it is a second chance. Never implied you said anything by your post. Only responded to have conversation with you as your perspective is appreciated.

Time is an artificial concept.

yet during that artificial concept there is a trial. time to count it all dung, and store up treasure in heaven. Instead of storing up treasure on earth and not being rich toward God.

1 Corinthians 3:13-14 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.