One Baptism

[Pisteuo]

You are only fooling yourself

Your doctrine says....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and IMMERSE YOURSELF WITHOUT WATER in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER, both men and women.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he WAS IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER.

47 Can any man IMMERSE THEMSELVES WITHOUT water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to IMMERSE THEMSELVES WITHOUT WATER in the name of the Lord.

4 Then said Paul, John verily IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER in the name of the Lord Jesus.

No need to keep typing all that out. You don’t have to say “without water”. I know what immersion in Jesus name means. But you can believe that what those people needed that day was a bath and not a change of heart all you want. A physical cleansing will all the sudden give them knowledge of Jesus. Somehow they are immersed in Jesus water.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Do you read “immersed in water” here, too?

 

[Truther]

You use

No need to keep typing all that out. You don’t have to say “without water”. I know what immersion in Jesus name means. But you can believe that what those people needed that day was a bath and not a change of heart all you want. A physical cleansing will all the sudden give them knowledge of Jesus. Somehow they are immersed in Jesus water.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Do you read “immersed in water” here, too?

I bet it accentuates Acts 2:38 etc, not eliminates them.
Think about the verse you quoted a minute.

Repent ye therefore......(Then Peter said repent).

And be converted that your sins be blotted out.....(and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins).

When the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord....(and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost).


This is called harmonizing verses.

Isn’t this simply amazing?

 

[Pisteuo]

Yep. Harmonized them perfectly. Glad you seen that. No water baptism in either. But a conversion in both. Now, how would you be converted per Acts 3:19 without your water baptism if you say it’s needed in Acts 2:38 to be converted?

 

[Truther]

Yep. Harmonized them perfectly. Glad you seen that. No water baptism in either. But a conversion in both. Now, how would you be converted per Acts 3:19 without your water baptism if you say it’s needed in Acts 2:38 to be converted?

You missed it.

Acts 2:38 was commanded first.

Acts 3:19 is the detailed definition of Acts 2:38 per Peters original commands.

You think chapter 3 debunks chapter 2.

 

[Pisteuo]

Thanks. But I’ll speak for me. I say they say the same thing and neither calls for water but for a conversion that comes from getting to know Jesus.
But I’ll leave you to it here and I appreciate the exchange. God bless.

 

[Truther]

Thanks. But I’ll speak for me. I say they say the same thing and neither calls for water but for a conversion that comes from getting to know Jesus.
But I’ll leave you to it here and I appreciate the exchange. God bless.

I only suggest we take Jesus in Mark 16:16 And Peter in Acts 2:38 literally.

But thank you also for the exchange. God bless.

 

[marksman]

Hello @marksman,

When it is used figuratively, as in 1 Corinthians 10:2 for example, the element being, 'the cloud and the sea', and the object being identification with the former experiences of Moses and the children of Israel, in the crossing of the Jordan river, which took place, 'dryshod', the water having been parted for them.

* See also Luke 12:50, where the Lord Jesus refers to the baptism of suffering He was going to have to endure. No water there either.

The other elements associated with baptism being, water (as in Matthew 3:11), the Holy Spirit, ie., power from on high (as referred to in Matthew 3:11) and the name of the Lord (as in Acts 10:48).

The word baptize also has the meaning - 'to overwhelm' - to come into full union with whoever or whatever is being baptised into, or identified with.

The baptism of John used the element of water, and identified the participant with the word John had preached, which was repentance, and the remission of sins, in the light of the fact that the Kingdom, which is of God, was nigh.

The moment Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ enters, by the entry of God's Word, the believer is identified with Christ, in His death and resurrection, he becomes one with Him, by the operation of the Holy Spirit. He is thereby baptised into Him without the element of water.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus Chris

Sorry but you are reading into scripture what is not there. I am a Baptist by birth, Was theologically-educated at a Brethren Bible College and have post-college spent two years studying the New Testament Church and the way of life they conducted for a Ph.D. This involved reading over 60 books on the subject from all sorts of writers and theological persuasions.

This included writing by Derek Prince who is one of the foremost authorities on the meaning of New Testament words because he had linguistic degrees in both Hebrew and Greek from Cambridge University and was their youngest professor at the age of 25.

In addition over the last five years I have spent a large amount of time reading up on the life and times of when Jesus was on earth learning its customs and history.

It is clear that in response to the crowd's question in Acts "Men and brethren what shall we do?" The reply "repent and be baptised" means repent of your sin and be baptised in (wet) water." There was nothing symbolic about it. it was the real deal

 

[marksman]

What is this you're talking about? The <original Greek meaning> of WHAT do you say, <means wet>??? Chancer!

I have no idea what chancer means

 

[marksman]

Ephesians 4
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Romans 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

According to these Scriptures, there is One Baptism, and that is being baptized into Christ.

What we call "being baptized in the Holy Spirit" I believe is actually what the Bible calls being filled with the Holy Spirit, which is something that the Holy Spirit does with us at various times in our lives.

But there is no "second benefit" as some would say, meaning that we, being children of God, lack the power of God until we are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

We are baptized into Christ, the actual baptism, and we are empowered by God being reborn. We aren't waiting for something more from God, we only need believe that He has already given us everything needed for life and godliness.

Much love!

As I was reading your post this came to me and I have included different translations to show there is not much variation.

(CEV) And you are fully grown because you belong to Christ, who is over every power and authority.
(KJV) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
LITV) and having been filled, you are in Him, who is the Head of all rule and authority,
(MKJV) And you are complete in Him, who is the Head of all principality and power,
(YLT) and ye are in him made full, who is the head of all principality and authority

The original Greek suggests filling up a hole; to fill a net; to execute (a task); to finish or complete.

This implies that we are not starting empty and gradually filling up as we go along although you would think that is how things were judging by some teaching or the activities of some Christians. No, I get a distinct feeling it is all given to us in one lump sum when we are born again and we have to go out letting what is inside come out and the more we do that the more we grow in Christ because the Christ in us becomes the predominant factor.

 

[bbyrd009]

The reply "repent and be baptised" means repent of your sin and be baptised in (wet) water." There was nothing symbolic about it. it was the real deal

um, you dont think "water" symbolizes anything in the Bible? said with such confidence, too!

we are aware that Scripture was written to "hide wisdom from the wise," right?

 

[bbyrd009]

The 3000 in Acts 2 were added to the Church by water baptism, not Spirit infilling....

41....were baptized, and the same day were added to them about 3000 souls.

so then, you are a soul, right?

 

[Truther]

so then, you are a soul, right?

Yessir

 

[charity]

Sorry but you are reading into scripture what is not there. I am a Baptist by birth, Was theologically-educated at a Brethren Bible College and have post-college spent two years studying the New Testament Church and the way of life they conducted for a Ph.D. This involved reading over 60 books on the subject from all sorts of writers and theological persuasions.

This included writing by Derek Prince who is one of the foremost authorities on the meaning of New Testament words because he had linguistic degrees in both Hebrew and Greek from Cambridge University and was their youngest professor at the age of 25.

In addition over the last five years I have spent a large amount of time reading up on the life and times of when Jesus was on earth learning its customs and history.

It is clear that in response to the crowd's question in Acts "Men and brethren what shall we do?" The reply "repent and be baptised" means repent of your sin and be baptised in (wet) water." There was nothing symbolic about it. it was the real deal.

'And I knew Him not:
but H that sent me to baptize with water,
the same said unto me,
"Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him,
the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."
And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.'
(John 1:33-34)

Hello @marksman,

If I were reading into Scripture what is not there, then that would indeed be serious, and I would repent of it. However, I do not believe that I have. I applaud your degree of expertise and experience in the Word of God, but that does not give you the right to say that I have done this, without explaining how: which you have not done.

* You asked me a question (Reply #196): - If the original Greek means fully wet, how do you get fully wet if water is not in evidence? - To which I responded as follows in reply #197 (quote):-

When it is used figuratively, as in 1 Corinthians 10:2 for example, the element being, 'the cloud and the sea', and the object being identification with the former experiences of Moses and the children of Israel, in the crossing of the Jordan river, which took place, 'dryshod', the water having been parted for them.

See also Luke 12:50, where the Lord Jesus refers to the baptism of suffering He was going to have to endure. No water there either.

The other elements associated with baptism being, water (as in Matthew 3:11), the Holy Spirit, ie., power from on high (as referred to in Matthew 3:11) and the name of the Lord (as in Acts 10:48).

The word baptize also has the meaning - 'to overwhelm' - to come into full union with whoever or whatever is being baptised into, or identified with.

The baptism of John used the element of water, and identified the participant with the word John had preached, which was repentance, and the remission of sins, in the light of the fact that the Kingdom, which is of God, was nigh.

The moment Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ enters, by the entry of God's Word, the believer is identified with Christ, in His death and resurrection, he becomes one with Him, by the operation of the Holy Spirit. He is thereby baptised into Him without the element of water.

-----------------------------------
​

* Perhaps you would tell me how I have read more into Scripture than is actually there, as you say?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

You are only fooling yourself

Your doctrine says....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and IMMERSE YOURSELF WITHOUT WATER in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER, both men and women.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he WAS IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER.

47 Can any man IMMERSE THEMSELVES WITHOUT water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to IMMERSE THEMSELVES WITHOUT WATER in the name of the Lord.

4 Then said Paul, John verily IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were IMMERSED WITHOUT WATER in the name of the Lord Jesus.

you dont think "water" has any symbology?
You dont think Scripture is written so as to hide wisdom from the wise?

i'm curious what you would define as "satan's dialectic" now, if you would, ty

 

[bbyrd009]

ps and one other thing, just from personal observation, and i havent travelled the whole length of it by any means, but i am beginning to suspect that "baptizing ppl in the Jordan river" would have been heard with a fair amount of mirth, as the only way anybody baptizin anybody in the overwhelming majority of the Jordan river would be if they brought a shovel too.

Not sayin i got the joke yet, but there is some double-entendre or other insider information that is being conveyed there imo, bc even if immersion in the Jordan is technically possible in a couple tiny areas, the image that is/would have been formed in ppls minds upon hearing "baptizing in the river Jordan" is such that a kind of tongue in cheek joke thing or whatever is like being conveyed? i could provide numerous quotes, "ridiculous trickle," etc.

But that is only for most of the year...
Now John was also baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because the water was plentiful there, and people kept coming to be baptized
where i have taken the liberty of Quoting an x, the BSB there,
Aenon-aeon
Aeon
The word aeon, also spelled eon and æon, originally meant "life", "vital force" or "being", "generation" or "a period of time"
Salim
Names of Jerusalem
Names of Jerusalem refers to the multiple names by which the city of Jerusalem has been known and the etymology of the word...

so, um, something something, stay here for the present something
yeh thats all i ogt

 

[bbyrd009]

"because the water was plentiful there" has have had maybe been just defined kinda huh

bc if i took you to that spot you would laugh ok, when you saw the jordan @ ancient aenon
John 3:23 Lexicon: John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there;
and people were coming and were being baptized--
contrary to our current accepted model

 

[bbyrd009]

so hey if you want to believe that immersing your head unter lideral water while Some Guy says the Correct Things might be beneficial for you, i say go for it. i did it like twice, at least. It was an excellent and enduring education, and i wouldnt do anything different. But i would say beware of this "literal" thing, imo this is another word humans prolly shouldnt even use? it becomes an easy way to be a hypocrite, caught saying "well thats different"

i am not qualified to take anything literally narf

 

[Truther]

you dont think "water" has any symbology?
You dont think Scripture is written so as to hide wisdom from the wise?

i'm curious what you would define as "satan's dialectic" now, if you would, ty

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ symbolizes burial with Jesus Christ by his name.
It is very meaningful to the Lord for us to follow him through the death and burial process.
This is what it is really about.
Folks are “muy contento” to not be buried with Christ these days...”,muy contento”.

 

[marksman]

'And I knew Him not:
but H that sent me to baptize with water,
the same said unto me,
"Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him,
the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."
And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.'
(John 1:33-34)

Hello @marksman,

If I were reading into Scripture what is not there, then that would indeed be serious, and I would repent of it. However, I do not believe that I have. I applaud your degree of expertise and experience in the Word of God, but that does not give you the right to say that I have done this, without explaining how: which you have not done.

* You asked me a question (Reply #196): - If the original Greek means fully wet, how do you get fully wet if water is not in evidence? - To which I responded as follows in reply #197 (quote):-

When it is used figuratively, as in 1 Corinthians 10:2 for example, the element being, 'the cloud and the sea', and the object being identification with the former experiences of Moses and the children of Israel, in the crossing of the Jordan river, which took place, 'dryshod', the water having been parted for them.

See also Luke 12:50, where the Lord Jesus refers to the baptism of suffering He was going to have to endure. No water there either.

The other elements associated with baptism being, water (as in Matthew 3:11), the Holy Spirit, ie., power from on high (as referred to in Matthew 3:11) and the name of the Lord (as in Acts 10:48).

The word baptize also has the meaning - 'to overwhelm' - to come into full union with whoever or whatever is being baptised into, or identified with.

The baptism of John used the element of water, and identified the participant with the word John had preached, which was repentance, and the remission of sins, in the light of the fact that the Kingdom, which is of God, was nigh.

The moment Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ enters, by the entry of God's Word, the believer is identified with Christ, in His death and resurrection, he becomes one with Him, by the operation of the Holy Spirit. He is thereby baptised into Him without the element of water.

-----------------------------------
​

* Perhaps you would tell me how I have read more into Scripture than is actually there, as you say?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I am dubious about anyone who uses a verse of scripture with a different meaning to justify that meaning in a verse that has an entirely different meaning. i.e. Acts 2 with 1 Cor 10:2.

 

[marksman]

um, you dont think "water" symbolizes anything in the Bible? said with such confidence, too!

we are aware that Scripture was written to "hide wisdom from the wise," right?

In that verse in Acts, there was no symbolism involved. Being baptised in water by immersion was commonplace in those days.