One Baptism

[bbyrd009]

The RCC was the first ancient group to tamper with water baptism.
The reformers were freaked out about infant baptism so they tossed out the baby with the baptism water.
A chill pill and getting back to immersions would have fixed it.
The reformers needed reform

imo it is a better def of immersion that is freely available to any that will hear that might fix it, if it indeed needs to be fixed anyway?
but in religious terms, i guess i mostly agree with you, yeh.

to me the whole water-baptism-ritual-requirement thing more or less hinges upon the answer to one Q, that being
"does ritual water baptism = salvation, or no?"
and imo the answer to that is obvious?

although i dont know the answer

Who’s lecturing who?

zing!
lol

Why was the eunuch in Acts 8 baptized in water?

look ima read that, and you arent going to like it so much prolly ok dont you know what "eunuch" reps bro? See, i am trying not to do this thing you keep harping on, that is not being broadly understood at all, bc just slapping ppl in the face with this stuff--my mo btw--is not helpful, at least to them i guess, them being you in this case, but honest the Ethiopian eunuch story is not going to turn out like you imagine ok. He was the Sec of the Treasury, i think? Not saying that his baptism was bad, ok, just that "eunuch" goes with "Ethiopian treasury" as a commentary on the cover story, put in such a way that you are certainly allowed to believe that they came upon some literal water in the road in the middle of the desert if you like but see its the "baptizing in the river Jordan, @ Aenon" all over again see, the story only makes sense until you put your pinkie fingernail to it? Now, we can go and pinpoint where the eunuch thing supposedly happened, and i will tell you honestly i havent looked yet and dont really know but i can say virtually for sure that you are not going to be happy with whatever we find ok. Not to lecture but there was a thriving community of Jews in Ethiopia then i guess, rich ones, and this passage is prolly a commentary on them and/or their seal of approval on the NT, just since you asked

 

[bbyrd009]

"
The name Ethiopia: Summary

Meaning
Fiery Eye, Keen Of Vision, Appearing As Fire
Etymology
From (1) the verb αιθω (aitho), to light up or kindle, and (2) the noun οψ (ops), eye." The amazing name Ethiopia: meaning and etymology

"Originally, Candace was not really a personal name but rather a Nubian (= Cushite or Ethiopian) authoritative title, not unlike Pharaoh or Caesar. This name occurs once in the Bible: in ACTS 8:27, God sends Philip the Evangelist on the road between Jerusalem and Gaza, to meet with an unnamed court official of Candace, queen of Ethiopia. While in his chariot the man is reading from a scroll of Isaiah (which by itself is highly remarkable as those scrolls were very rare) and allows Philip to explain it to him. The official desires to be baptized and, we may assume, takes his new found convictions home to his monarch..." The amazing name Candace: meaning and etymology

and even
"The name Philip: Summary

Meaning
Lover Of Horse(s), He Who Leans On His Military Complex

• One of Jesus' twelve disciples. The synoptic gospels merely mention him when the twelve are listed (MATTHEW 10:3, MARK 3:18, LUKE 6:14) but John elaborates that Philip was from Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter, that Philip found and called Nathanael and brought him to Jesus (JOHN 1:43-48). In John's gospel, Jesus tested Philip by asking where to buy bread, just before he would miraculously feed the 5,000 (6:5-7). Just after the triumphal entry, certain Greeks requested an audience with Jesus via Philip (12:20-22). And Philip asked Jesus to show him the Father (14:8-9). Last we hear of Philip of Bethsaida is when he was with the others in the upper room, right after the ascension of Christ (ACTS 1:13).
• Where Philip of Bethsaida went off to isn't told, but when the twelve (including Philip) asked the congregation to appoint seven men with enough wisdom to wait tables (perhaps a touch of satire?) there was another Philip among them (ACTS 6:5), henceforth known as Philip the Evangelist, one of the seven, who ended up living in Caesarea (ACTS 21:8). It's generally concluded that this latter Philip was the one who went to Samaria to preach (ACTS 8:5-13) and who baptized the unnamed official of Candace of Ethiopia, and journeyed on until he came to Caesarea (8:26-40).
• Herod II, also known as Herod Philip I or simply Philip (as per MATTHEW 14:3 and MARK 6:17), son of Herod the Great and Mariamne II and the first husband of Herodias.
• Philip the Tetrarch of Ituraea and Trachonitis (LUKE 3:1), also known as Herod Philip II and half-brother of the previous one. This Philip married his niece Salome, and rebuilt and named the city of Caesarea Philippi..."

The amazing name Philip: meaning and etymology

see so even "Phillip" which we just take at face value now, iow valueless, a guy named Phil, tra-la, was surely used bc names had meaning then, and even ol' Phil turns out to be, well, not the name i would want to be remembered by, anyway. The man "ended up living in CAESARIA" for chrissakes i mean what is this telling you?

 

[bbyrd009]

"the road between Jerusalem and Gaza"
(called "The Desert Road")(apparently)
The Bible Journey | Philip's Journeys
now show me the water ok
or i mean see where this is going

"and journeyed on until he came to Caesarea (8:26-40)"
which is in the exact opposite direction from Gaza

 

[Truther]

imo it is a better def of immersion that is freely available to any that will hear that might fix it, if it indeed needs to be fixed anyway?
but in religious terms, i guess i mostly agree with you, yeh.

to me the whole water-baptism-ritual-requirement thing more or less hinges upon the answer to one Q, that being
"does ritual water baptism = salvation, or no?"
and imo the answer to that is obvious?

although i dont know the answer

zing!
lol

look ima read that, and you arent going to like it so much prolly ok dont you know what "eunuch" reps bro? See, i am trying not to do this thing you keep harping on, that is not being broadly understood at all, bc just slapping ppl in the face with this stuff--my mo btw--is not helpful, at least to them i guess, them being you in this case, but honest the Ethiopian eunuch story is not going to turn out like you imagine ok. He was the Sec of the Treasury, i think? Not saying that his baptism was bad, ok, just that "eunuch" goes with "Ethiopian treasury" as a commentary on the cover story, put in such a way that you are certainly allowed to believe that they came upon some literal water in the road in the middle of the desert if you like but see its the "baptizing in the river Jordan, @ Aenon" all over again see, the story only makes sense until you put your pinkie fingernail to it? Now, we can go and pinpoint where the eunuch thing supposedly happened, and i will tell you honestly i havent looked yet and dont really know but i can say virtually for sure that you are not going to be happy with whatever we find ok. Not to lecture but there was a thriving community of Jews in Ethiopia then i guess, rich ones, and this passage is prolly a commentary on them and/or their seal of approval on the NT, just since you asked

The answer to the question. Yes. Mark 16:16.
Believing was required to be baptized to be saved.

 

[bbyrd009]

Caesaria Phillipi

ah, to us, sounds like an ancient holy place, right, where the dogs all barketh, barketh

but see to them it meant "where Caesar keeps his horses"

 

[bbyrd009]

The answer to the question. Yes. Mark 16:16.
Believing was required to be baptized to be saved.

i had no doubt you would oblige us, ty

and HNY!

 

[Truther]

'Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,
which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.'
(Acts 10:47-48)

Hi @Truther

Let's put away any combative spirit here please, for I am not trying to gain an advantage over you in any way in regard to water baptism. I believe, as I told @marksman, that water baptism was what Acts 2:38 referred to.

Yes, Peter instructed that the gentiles who were being grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel should be baptized in the name of the Lord. I find it interesting that they received the Holy Ghost before they were baptised with water though, don't you? Whereas in Acts 2:38, it was after baptism in water .

Yes, baptism in water was a requirement at Acts 10, I agree. Yet the Church which is the Body of Christ was still unknown at that time (Ephesians 3:9): it was not revealed to Paul until after Acts 28; when blindness finally fell upon Israel, and they went away into unbelief. In the epistles written by Paul following that revelation, water baptism is not referred to (in Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon), for the believer is made COMPLETE in Christ (Colossians 2:10).

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Receiving the Holy Ghost does not remit sins, leads a person to the water to remit sins.
It still works today.
It happened to me in ‘79

 

[Truther]

Look if you want to get baptized, well and good, it has no part in salvation, it is by grace ware are saved through faith, it is a gift from God, not and baptism. Of course if you choose to add that, thats your issue not ours, nor Gods for that matter. All you seek to do as so many do is justify your position and what you understand, that why these forums are so much fun...Not.

You just debunked Mark 16:16

You quoted from the epistles to the saved saints that had by grace been brought though the Acts 2:38 experience.
Romans does not debunk Acts.

Also, debates are fun to the one that is correct.

 

[mjrhealth]

You just debunked Mark 16:16

Also, debates are fun to the one that is correct.

No not debunked, just set on the p straight path that leads. Now when you find Christ and ask Him for His opinion than I may listen to you.

 

[Truther]

No not debunked, just set on the p straight path that leads. Now when you find Christ and ask Him for His opinion than I may listen to you.

Finding Christ equates debunking Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 etc?
Christ commanded observation of these things.

 

[mjrhealth]

Christ commanded observation of these things.

Nah you just obssesed with something you can grasp, because you wont go to the one who is the truth. Like so many "learned" people, who claim to seek the truth, but when you point them to the one who is the truth, they duck for cover and run... which is why He said,

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

its your choosing, not His...

 

[Truther]

Nah you just obssesed with something you can grasp, because you wont go to the one who is the truth. Like so many "learned" people, who claim to seek the truth, but when you point them to the one who is the truth, they duck for cover and run... which is why He said,

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

its your choosing, not His...

Don’t throw holy water....debate.

 

[mjrhealth]

Don’t throw holy water....debate.

You could just ask Him, As i posted before, If Christ is dead, than our faith is dead, If He lives as He promsied than we have Him as He promised, but if you dont want Him, that is your choice, the truth is in Him if you seek it, but for many its just words no more.

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Your choice.

 

[Truther]

You could just ask Him, As i posted before, If Christ is dead, than our faith is dead, If He lives as He promsied than we have Him as He promised, but if you dont want Him, that is your choice, the truth is in Him if you seek it, but for many its just words no more.

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Your choice.

Cmon bro. Debunk me. Quoting scripture at me to defend yourself is akin to attempt to hold a cross up to a vampire.
I’m just not that bad of a guy....I won’t show my fangs.

 

[marksman]

'Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,
which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.'
(Acts 10:47-48)

Hi @Truther

Let's put away any combative spirit here please, for I am not trying to gain an advantage over you in any way in regard to water baptism. I believe, as I told @marksman, that water baptism was what Acts 2:38 referred to.

Yes, Peter instructed that the gentiles who were being grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel should be baptized in the name of the Lord. I find it interesting that they received the Holy Ghost before they were baptised with water though, don't you? Whereas in Acts 2:38, it was after baptism in water .

Yes, baptism in water was a requirement at Acts 10, I agree. Yet the Church which is the Body of Christ was still unknown at that time (Ephesians 3:9): it was not revealed to Paul until after Acts 28; when blindness finally fell upon Israel, and they went away into unbelief. In the epistles written by Paul following that revelation, water baptism is not referred to (in Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon), for the believer is made COMPLETE in Christ (Colossians 2:10).

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

They were known as "The Way" a sect of Judaism

 

[marksman]

'Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you,
and to your children,
and to all that are afar off,
even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort,
saying, "Save yourselves from this untoward generation".
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.'
(Acts 2:38-41)

Hi @Truther,

In reply #341, I inferred that care should be taken in applying the Word of God to ourselves, any part of it, without taking into consideration the context of the passage being considered.

For example, @marksman referred to verse 38, of the quotation above (highlighted), and this was spoken by Peter, in response to a question asked by people of 'the House of Israel' (Acts 2:36), or, 'men of Israel' (Acts 2:22) who were 'pricked in their hearts' by what he had been saying to them. He urges them to save themselves from 'this untoward generation'. These were men of Israel, who were at Jerusalem for the feast of Passover, some native to Jerusalem and others who were there from the countries of the dispersion (i.e., 'all that are afar off'), 'as many as our Lord shall call' - who would comprise the believing remnant of Israel whom God was calling out. There would not have been a gentile there, unless he were a proselyte (maybe).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

So......

 

[marksman]

'Then Peter said unto them,
" Repent, and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ..."'
(Acts 2:38)

Hello there, @marksman,

I believe that the verse above is the verse you were referring to, yes? I agree that water baptism is what is being referred to in this verse. However, as with all verses of Scripture, context is a vital element in regard to application: taking into account to whom the words were addressed, and at what time etc.,

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Which is central to ALL my teaching.

 

[marksman]

as any child could show you, the term we xlate "immerse" has other meanings than the strictly literal, even in our warped dictionaries bro, even in our common lexicon, even the Aussie one i am sure. I mean set yourself up as The Arbiter all you like, BoL, but you sound like an idiot ok bro

Haranguing and being rude is your specialty is it?

 

[bbyrd009]

Haranguing and being rude is your specialty is it?

right? Seems to be anyway, huh? But really wadr what do you say to a person who is this far gone?

The word in Acts means to be fully wet. No more and no less. What other verses mean is not relevant to this scripture.

i mean srsly bro? would you like me to um debate you maybe?

lol, jesus already, with Christians, huh?
have you guys not got to the wise in his own eyes part yet?

when is the last time you asked a Q you did not know the answer to bro?

 

[mjrhealth]

Cmon bro. Debunk me. Quoting scripture at me to defend yourself is akin to attempt to hold a cross up to a vampire.
I’m just not that bad of a guy....I won’t show my fangs.

Since you asked read carefully, this is straight from the bible,

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

again

Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

From Jesus

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

and again

Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

So debunked, but that will never be enough for you.