If Children come from Hell, how did they get there to begin with?

[Enoch111]

Of course the answer to why we were born from Hell is because we were sent there to begin with.

BAH. HUMBUG. NONSENSE.

We are talking about previous lives here... and yes, it's Biblical. Jesus Himself taught this fact and I challenge anyone here to debunk this claim.

The Bible itself debunks this.

This is a contradiction that is so clear and so obvious that those outside Christianity look at Christians as some of the most ignorant fools in existence... and rightly so. I have seen many Christians walk away from the Faith entirely for not being able to resolve this issue.

Christians do not have to resolve this issue. It is entirely in God's hands.

Maybe some of you are thinking... "I've never heard this before!".

You wish. This nonsense has been around for ages.

What does that tell you about how tightly the Devil has his grip on this world? What is the Christian World so afraid of that they have to treat folks like me like Stephen?

What does Stephen have to do with this? Looks like you are the one who is afraid of Hell.

One of the saddest byproducts of the 'Eternal Torment' teaching is how it turns Christians into bitter people who hate the Human Race.

This is one of the stupidest remarks posted on a Christian forum.

 

[Base12]

Oh my... the thread has been Featured.

Awesome!

 

[Base12]

Lol... good ol' Enoch111. I can always count on you to post ad hominems.

Show me the verses!

 

[Enoch111]

Show me the verses!

NO REFERENCE TO HELL

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. (Genesis 4:1)

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5)

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. (Luke 1:15)

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:35)

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace... (Galatians 1:15)

All these verses show that (1) it is God who gives children to men and (2) it is God who knows each individual before they are born. He does NOT bring them from Hell but creates then by His grace.

 

[Base12]

(1) it is God who gives children to men...

Agreed.

(2) it is God who knows each individual before they are born...

Agreed... and proves my point BTW.

He does NOT bring them from Hell...

Disagreed... as per the OP.

...but creates then by His grace.

Agreed... and proves my point again.

 

[Base12]

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5)

I will expand on the above verse as it pertains to the gifts referenced here...

Ephesians 4:8
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men"

What are said gifts in the above verse?

Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers"

Now add the two verses I posted to Jeremiah 1:5.

The gifts were essentially God giving those in the Womb a chance to become Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers.

If we read the context of Ephesians 4, we realize that the entire chapter is about the process of escaping the cycle of death/damnation/rebirth by becoming Sanctified before birth.

What about the 'led captivity captive' part? Who are the Prisoners?

Context, context, context...

Ephesians 4:1
"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called"

WE ALL ARE THE PRISONERS!

So what did Jesus do for us Prisoners of the death/damnation/rebirth cycle? He descended into the 'Lower Parts of the Earth' i.e. our Mother's Womb and pre-destined us for Salvation...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

It's not just Mary's Womb he entered. It's all who are Saved...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"

The Saved are the Captives he is leading.

You really think Abraham kept Prisoners in his Bosom? That would imply Abraham is evil. Blasphemy!

 

[Base12]

I mean just look at what is being said in Ephesians 4...

Ephesians 4:14
"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive"

Ephesians 4:16
"From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love"

The whole chapter is about babies and children escaping the Rebirth Prison Cycle and finally growing up to know the Love of God.

 

[Base12]

NO REFERENCE TO HELL

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. (Genesis 4:1)

No reference to Hell?

Let us not forget who our original Father is...

John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it"

First of all, the verse is literal.
Second of all, it pertains to all of us.

Until we have a new, Glorified Body, the fact remains that Satan is the one who is the father of our current corrupt bodies. No amount of hemming and hawing is going to change this.

We may have originally been created in God's Image, but it was swapped out and corrupted when Adam and Eve ate of the Forbidden Fruit.

The Seed of the Serpent refers to the DNA in all of the Human Race. The Church is too proud to admit to this fact. We are so fallen it's not even funny.

 

[amadeus]

I agree there is a profound message here, but the problem is it flies in the face of organized religions where men rely on dead men to tell them what they know of God.

This hellish place is dominated by what I call repeats.

People have done frequently the same thing to the message that Jesus brought as the did to the message God gave in the OT to Moses and the prophets. God has definitely given us more, but as Jesus said it, "much is given... much is required". Altogether too much reliance on brains which men always had [and they have not helped him improve his place with God] and too little reliance on what God has given us through Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Waiting on him]

I mean just look at what is being said in Ephesians 4...

Ephesians 4:14
"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive"

Ephesians 4:16
"From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love"

The whole chapter is about babies and children escaping the Rebirth Prison Cycle and finally growing up to know the Love of God.

From the mouths of babes.

 

[Waiting on him]

From the mouths of babes.

Several times in the epistles Paul speaks in my opinion of travailing in birth as bearing a parent a vessel even in aiding in the birth of new believers in Christ. We must be born from above. It’s spiritual Jerusalem above, it’s free the mother of us all

Galatians 4:26-27 KJV
[26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. [27] For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

As my wife VIJ has posted many times we are promised children!
Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

Hang in there @Base12

 

[Waiting on him]

It seems we have 10,000 instructors

We need fathers!!

 

[Waiting on him]

People have done frequently the same thing to the message that Jesus brought as the did to the message God gave in the OT to Moses and the prophets. God has definitely given us more, but as Jesus said it, "much is given... much is required". Altogether too much reliance on brains which men always had [and they have not helped him improve his place with God] and too little reliance on what God has given us through Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Hey John, we’ll stated, I do wish more people would look to God to reveal what they believe of Him, and less to man.

The day is coming that ever man won’t look to his neighbor and say know the Lord.

 

[Waiting on him]

The time is near, He the Lord will reveal all scripture, even the spaces between the words.

 

[Base12]

There is only one verse in the entire Bible that sadly... misled Christians try to use in an embarrassing attempt to debunk Reincarnation. I've been waiting for someone to post it...

Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"

What they have been deceived into believing, is that the verse says something like...

"Everyone has to die and it's only one time".

If this were True, then that eschatology is in serious contradiction of many verses in Scripture.

Verses about the Rapture for example would be in violation. Millions of Christians look forward to the day they will not taste of death and be with the LORD in the air...

1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord"

Too bad that's not going to happen... unless of course Hebrews 9:27 doesn't mean what they're telling us it means.

What about Enoch and Elijah? They never died. Oops, God lied again?

Genesis 5:24
"And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him"

2 Kings 2:1
"And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal"

Perhaps Enoch and Elijah will Reincarnate... oops, I mean magically appear in a flesh body one day as one of the Two Witnesses.

Have you folks ever noticed that when someone is caught in a lie, they often make up stories? Since Christians are taught that Reincarnation is not Biblical, Pastors must make up silly excuses like...

"The Two Witnesses aren't *really* the return of two famous Bible characters... they are merely 'Crisis Actors' playing the part". "It's all just a LARP".

They don't quite say it like that, but it's the same thing. They often use the word 'Spiritual' as if the word means 'It's not real'. "They will return in a Spiritual sense". Huh? They either return or they don't.

What about Lazarus who rose from the dead?

John 11:14
"Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead"

Lazarus died and was brought back to life only to die again. How does this fit in with the 'Die once' excuse?

And the Valley of Dry Bones?

Ezekiel 37:10
"So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army"

On and on it goes. There are so many stories of the dead rising again, only to die later. Obviously Hebrews 9:27 has been grossly misinterpreted by those that try and use it to debunk Reincarnation.

Let's clear this up once and for all...

All Hebrews 9:27 is teaching is that for every death, there is a judgement. That's it. One Death = One Judgement... simple.

In other words, One cannot live a life of 'Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll' and escape judgement each time. They will reap what they sow. That's the whole point of Judgment.

Which brings us to... the Second Death...

Revelation 2:11
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death"

Die once and die twice is a contradiction... no matter how One tries to spin it.

 

[Base12]

It's OK if many of you don't wish to post in this thread. I get it. Peer pressure can be intense sometimes, and this particular subject has been known to tear people apart quickly. I should have posted a disclaimer.

So here it is...

WARNING: You will be prosecuted, hated, excommunicated, banned and treated like dirt if you attempt to repeat anything you hear in this thread in other forums, social media or in public.

Satan is real. The lie of a Loving God sending people to 'Eternal Torments' and 'Annihilation' is one of the biggest deceptions he's got going in order to drive thinking people away from the Faith. Proceed with caution!

 

[Base12]

The time is near, He the Lord will reveal all scripture, even the spaces between the words.

I predict that when the Two Witnesses finally arrive, there will be many Christians that will hate them and their message. The Two Witnesses will reveal an abundance of Truths about Scripture that will be most inconvenient to hear.

Many of us have personally experienced the following verse first hand from the (so called) Christian Community...

Revelation 11:10
"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth"

Imagine being stabbed in the back for believing the Bible by the very people you thought were your friends... watching them celebrate you being banned. In many of the forums I participated in, I had spent years on there with hundreds and even thousands of posts.

All of it gone in an instant because I dared to bring this subject up. It's like being stoned to death, except in a virtual environment. One day, I predict it will be for real.

Again... be careful how you folks use the information you see here.

This forum should be commended for allowing these discussions to take place. It's a testament to how blessed this place is. Cherish it.

 

[Waiting on him]

I predict that when the Two Witnesses finally arrive, there will be many Christians that will hate them and their message. The Two Witnesses will reveal an abundance of Truths about Scripture that will be most inconvenient to hear.

Many of us have personally experienced the following verse first hand from the (so called) Christian Community...

Revelation 11:10
"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth"

Imagine being stabbed in the back for believing the Bible by the very people you thought were your friends... watching them celebrate you being banned. In many of the forums I participated in, I had spent years on there with hundreds and even thousands of posts.

All of it gone in an instant because I dared to bring this subject up. It's like being stoned to death, except in a virtual environment. One day, I predict it will be for real.

Again... be careful how you folks use the information you see here.

This forum should be commended for allowing these discussions to take place. It's a testament to how blessed this place is. Cherish it.

Maybe the reason not many are commenting on this particular subject is because they can’t find much scripture to refute it.

 

[Base12]

I posted some of the following in other threads, but I want to collect some of these thoughts here.

I wish to post my beliefs regarding what the Word of God has to say about what happens to the Saved vs. Unsaved.

I will start with the Unsaved...

Upon death, the Unsaved go to a placed called Torments... i.e. Hell. We see this in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus...

Luke 16:23
"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom"

The story is quite literal. Hell is more or less a form of 'holding chamber' until the Unsaved are Resurrected...

John 5:29
"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation"

Upon Resurrection, the Unsaved are judged...

Revelation 20:13
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works"

The biggest Key to understanding the above verse is to recognize the fact that the Unsaved will have all of their works tallied up. Common sense tells us that there is no point in 'keeping score' or keeping track of every misdeed since we are all guilty after committing only one sin.

Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

So why keep track of it all and hand out different sentences if everyone is going to receive the exact same punishment by 'burning forever' or becoming annihilated from existence?

The works of the Unsaved are counted in order to hand out the proper sentence... IN THE NEXT LIFE.

Similar to the concept of Karma, this is the ultimate meaning of reaping what One has sown...

Galatians 6:7
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap"

Anyone who has ever pondered why life is not just unfair, but more unfair for some than others, will understand what is being taught here.

Why are some born into wealthy families with good health and a happy life, while at the same time, others are born into poverty with health issues and little opportunity?

It is because they were handed their sentence and they are now reaping what they have sown. Some receive a light sentence, while others more severe. All is just. All is fair. Jesus of course is the escape route.

Once handed their sentence, the Unsaved are then tossed into the Lake of Fire...

Revelation 20:15
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"

This is where the Bible Student must do a bit of research in order to find out what happens next. The Lake of Fire comes to us from the Old Testament and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom...

2 Kings 23:10
"And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech"

The Key is to understand that those tossed into the Lake of Fire PASS THROUGH IT. It is merely a portal.

Molech is a representation of Female Reproductive System and the path to rebirth into another life here on Earth. It is presented as something wicked... not as misogyny, but rather to alert the Christian to the fact that this is NOT the recommended path to follow... contrary to other religions that portray Moloch in a positive light such as a 'Sacred Cow'... like Hinduism for example.

This brings us full circle now to verses like...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"

Hell is a parable for the Womb and the process of Reincarnation back into a corrupted body. Scripture calls this process 'Mystery of Iniquity'...

2 Thessalonians 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way"

Paul was basically teaching that people were dying and being Reincarnated while he was preaching.

BTW... the Restrainer is Abaddon/Apollyon...

Revelation 9:11
"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon"

I can expand on this if anyone wants but basically Apollyon's role is to 'destroy' or erase past life memories and purge the Soul from sin as to start off life fresh...

Job 28:22 (NASB)
"Abaddon and Death say, 'With our ears we have heard a report of it"

As some of you know, many Children remember their past lives. This is due to the fact that Apollyon keeps certain memories intact for certain reasons.

One day Apollyon will be taken out of the way in order for the Man of Sin to be birthed with full memories intact. This person obviously will be very cunning and powerful.