(Refuting) The (Original Sin) Doctrine!!
- Thread starter DoveSpirit05
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Noah did good and many others, as they had fruits of God's Spirit working in them and most of all they had FAITH and faith is counted as righteousness. Hebrews 11 lists those of FAITH in the OT.
FAITH comes according to God's work in you, His mercy and His calling which is His influence upon you.
The faithful have CHOSEN GOD because God LED their spirits into faith through the power of His Spirit's INFLUENCE upon their spirits. Without that influence man is ignorant and foolish as he is left to his own reasoning and that of doctrines of men. Without God's mercy, His calling, men are BLIND and DEAF they are in the DARK, like that of a serpent.
PLEASE diligently read the passages below.
2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau HAVE I HATED. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in O see, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
1 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Romans 11:27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS." 28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35 Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
historyb
Well-Known Member
It is quite Biblical and historical, your interpretation is not right. I do not go by the Bible alone, which itself it very not remotely Biblical.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, that's just a doctrine you've been taught by those who refuse to let go of the fleshy ideas the Jews have about the idea of a flesh soul. Jesus did literally... preach to the "spirits in prison" during His resurrection like Peter said, and they certainly were dead people that lived back to the times of Noah. They weren't fallen angels nor demons either, because The Gospel is not offered them. Some men's doctrines like to say any idea of the word 'spirit' in God's Word means a disembodied evil spirit. That's simply not true, but that's also how you have tried to implant those same ideas with that "immortal spirits" connotation, which of course does not exist in God's Holy Writ.
Davy
Well-Known Member
No, it wasn't about our Lord Jesus preaching to men alive upon the earth.
1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV
Like Peter said in 1 Peter 3, our Lord Jesus was 'quickened' by The Spirit, meaning raised from the dead, by which also He was able to go into Hades and preach The Gospel to the prisoners inside the prison house, and thus led out those who believed...
Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
KJV
Yet I recognize you will most likely still try to twist that in favor of following your Jewish traditions of men regarding these things.
Davy
Well-Known Member
So now you're wanting to rewrite God's Word with saying the future resurrection is to a flesh body?? Apostle Paul was clear that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..." (1 Corinthians 15:50). Did you not read that?
That essentially what you're saying if you believe our Lord Jesus' resurrected body is a flesh body like today.
Moreover, the following verses by Paul also in 1 Cor.15 reveal what kind of body our Lord's resurrected body is, even though it was transfigured from His flesh body...
1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
That "last Adam" is used metaphorically there to represent our Lord Jesus' resurrection. Jesus' flesh was quickened (transfigured) at His resurrection to that "quickening spirit" state!
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Paul made it clear there that our Lord Jesus' resurrection was to the heavenly body state, for he was referencing our Lord Jesus' resurrection in that last phrase of "the second man is the Lord from heaven".
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
Just to make sure we don't misunderstand Paul's meaning, he makes it clear what kind of resurrection body the resurrection is. It is NOT a flesh body like we have today. It is a "spiritual body" like Paul taught.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Hm, that's funny...it means EVERYTHING to me...especially as a source-the only source! Yikes.
historyb
Well-Known Member
Now I never said that and in fact Liturgical Christians hold the Bible in a much higher regard than evangelicals do. In fact the Bible means much more to me than it does to you or any average evangelical. You see I do not participate in the Anti Biblical idea of going by the Bible alone. Solo Scriptura is a devilish doctrine of men
I do not go by the Bible alone, which itself it very not remotely Biblical.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.John 5:39 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:2 Timothy 3:16
see you deny scripture
Hi Davy, that is an incorrect assumption, I have not been taught nor am following any doctrine I have received, I apply scripture to scripture. The words "flesh soul" would equate to me to mean a "flesh creature", any kind of creature/soul God made that is of flesh.
You are not making any sense in your response to me. I do not believe in human's having immortal spirits. I do not believe that only your body dies and your spirit lives on going to dwell somewhere else. I have posted this before. When you are dead your are dead, there is life where you are ALIVE and when you die your are no longer alive you are dead, you cease to exist.
Genesis 1: 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature (NEPHESH) that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature (NEPHESH) that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (NEPHESH).
NEPHESH/ soul -living creature, whether it be a whale, a bird, or a man. Each kind of creature has it's own kind of flesh and it's own way of functioning according to God's design. The brain of each kind of mammal has variations of functioning and intelligence. We are the only mammal and only creature that God made where our brains desire wisdom and understanding, and can imagine and invent that which we think is the truth.
Davy, is it TRUE that when you are being preached to it is unto your spirit?
Is it TRUE that there were men in prison when Jesus was on earth, both when he was mortal and then immortal having been raised incorruptible in power and glory showing himself to be of flesh and bone?
Would it thus be true to say that if Jesus went to a prison anywhere on earth he'd be preaching to the spirits of those men in prison?
Peter said, "18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
David, it is scriptural truth that the Spirit of God that raised Jesus from the dead before his flesh was allowed to see decay, was the SAME SPIRIT that we are told Jesus received upon his resurrection given unto him according to a promise. Likewise when he was mortal that Spirit descended upon him like a dove where he is said to have left the river Jordan having been filled with the Holy Spirit. He was sent to PREACH which is exactly what he did, and he preached unto the spirits of people all throughout the land. Likewise when he rose from the dead he preached.
The anointed Jesus filled with the Spirit was sent to preach to the lost, to sinners.
Jesus preached to the spirits of men, to men likewise in prison, they were disobedient like all men, even those during the days of Noah, where Noah was saved by water, likewise those in prison as well as others also were saved by water, their baptism.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Obviously you haven't applied 'scripture to scripture' if you believe the "soul" not being killed that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 10:28 is about flesh.
You need to stop using that idea of "immortal spirits" idea. It doesn't exist in God's Word. Just because God created the angels with a spirit and not a flesh body doesn't mean they are immortal. Your statement, "I do not believe that only your body dies and your spirit lives on going to dwell somewhere else" is the gist of it. Jesus and Apostle Paul, and even Solomon in Ecclesiastes 12 showed that the soul does continue on and goes somewhere else (when our flesh dies). The soul with spirit goes back to God Who gave it, and that does not mean some drop of water going back into a great ocean idea either. I showed you the Scripture, you apparently reject it.
Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV
You might want to pick up a copy of a New Testament and read it. Jesus showed there our 'soul' (psuche = breath) continues to have life after the flesh body dies. He also showed this in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man who both died and were taken to Paradise. So the idea of a soul does not require a flesh body like you're trying to say against.
Hi Dave,
First you have to understand that I am not a follower of Greek Philosophy, the likes of Plato that crept into Christian doctrine. The "early church fathers", were PAGAN converts who loved Plato. I believe in David and what he taught that I see Paul and others likewise teach the same WORD of God. It is not possible, to me it's total foolishness to say that Jesus went to "hades" to preach to "spirits". Humans don't DIE and then LIVE afterwards as a spirit. Humans DIE and thus they are DEAD.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
"The DEAD" that Peter is speaking of in chapter 4 is according to those seen as DEAD because of SINS as Peter speaks prior in chapter 2. Paul speaks the same,
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. ..13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1 Peter 4:1 For as much then as Christ suffered in the flesh, arm ye yourselves also with the same mind; for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 that ye no longer should live the rest of your time in flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 3 For the time past may suffice to have wrought the desire of the Gentiles, and to have walked in lasciviousness, lusts, wine bibbings, revellings, carousings, and abominable idolatries: 4 wherein they think strange that ye run not with them into the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 5 who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
As said, "The DEAD" that Peter is speaking of is according to those seen as DEAD because of SINS as Peter speaks prior in chapter 2.
Same as what Paul said, "we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit" and, "if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness".
All have sinned, all fall short, and according to Paul and Peter's words all of us are seen as DEAD because of sin. The gospel was preached unto sinners who are called DEAD. But only to the chosen, the called, did the gospel preached cause these who were once DEAD to now walk in newness of their spirit, being seen as ALIVE to God through Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1 Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
4:6 For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Dave, Jesus preached unto sinners, yes even sinners in jail, all people being preached unto are considered DEAD. Not all who heard the gospel did that gospel enter their spirit, only those chosen by God whom He called heard it as LIGHT and were brought forth out from being DEAD to being ALIVE according to be counted as righteous because of their baptism unto FAITH, walking in newness of life. The DEAD to sin will be judged according to those that were also once DEAD to sin but then were made alive because they were called to faith.
As you are told unto those CALLED, "That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"
Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, no sense in continuing this conversation with you, since you've already made up your mind to go against God's Holy Writ that our 'soul' continues on after death of our flesh body, even today.
Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV
Luke 12:4-5
4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you Whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, Which after He hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear Him.
KJV
Luke 16:20-31
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
KJV
Luke 23:41-43
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."
43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
KJV
Jesus said that to the malefactor crucified with Him that believed on Him. Now since they both were upon a cross dying in their flesh, there certainly was no place to go on earth... so what "paradise" was Jesus speaking of? The Paradise of God in the Heavenly dimension where Lazarus and the rich man went when their flesh died. And the question for those in the flesh today is... where do you want to go when you die, on the side of Paradise where Abraham is, or across the great gulf in Paradise called hell where the rich man was taken to??? Make up your mind, because your soul with spirit body is going to Paradise when your flesh dies, not in the ground where your flesh is going.
Bible_Gazer
Active Member
The question is how do you get eternal life or are you born with it ?
If you are born with eternal life, then why would Jesus give you some more eternal life afterward ?
Then why fear of dying in the flesh if you are going to be alive anyway ?
Yet in Hebrews 11 the faithful all died coming short of the promise. Short on what ?
If you are born with eternal life, then why would Jesus give you some more eternal life afterward ?
Then why fear of dying in the flesh if you are going to be alive anyway ?
Yet in Hebrews 11 the faithful all died coming short of the promise. Short on what ?
Hi Dave,
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Psalms 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
breath -RUWACH
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
spirit -RUWACH
Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
breath - RUWACH
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Eccl 3: 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? 22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?
Ecc 8: 8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
spirit - RUWACH
Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
breath - RUWACH
David and Solomon spoke consistent with God's words to Adam and Eve, man returns to the dust. Solomon speaks against any question as to the spirit of man having any advantage over animals, those questions are of vanity, they are empty.
Hi Dave,
David was a prophet, he spoke about sheol, the GRAVE, he spoke about his death being as sleep where he would one day awake. Jesus spoke of Lazarus being asleep and the people were confused and so he said bluntly that Lazarus was DEAD, then Jesus raised him to LIFE. Jesus also spoke of the wicked being cast into GEENNA, which was a place where animals were burned, where animals perished being reduced to DUST.
Psalms 7:5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust.
Psalms 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
Psalms 44:25 For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth.
Psalms 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psalm 16:8 I always keep the LORD in front of me. When he is by my side, I cannot be moved. 9 That is why my heart is glad and my soul rejoices. My body rests securely 10 because you do not abandon my soul to the grave or allow your holy one to decay. 11 You make the path of life known to me. Complete joy is in your presence. Pleasures are by your side forever.
Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city....39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
The idea of an immortal soul/spirit within a man is of Greek philosophy, that of Plato, it's not biblical. I will listen to the prophet David who died in hope of his resurrection. He did not see his death as him being eternally dead. David through his faith in Christ as God gave him the truth of the future, he saw his death as thus only SLEEP, where he would awake to life once more. Paul likewise speaks of this same hope and this same sleep of death.
David was a prophet, he spoke about sheol, the GRAVE, he spoke about his death being as sleep where he would one day awake. Jesus spoke of Lazarus being asleep and the people were confused and so he said bluntly that Lazarus was DEAD, then Jesus raised him to LIFE. Jesus also spoke of the wicked being cast into GEENNA, which was a place where animals were burned, where animals perished being reduced to DUST.
Psalms 7:5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust.
Psalms 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
Psalms 44:25 For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth.
Psalms 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psalm 16:8 I always keep the LORD in front of me. When he is by my side, I cannot be moved. 9 That is why my heart is glad and my soul rejoices. My body rests securely 10 because you do not abandon my soul to the grave or allow your holy one to decay. 11 You make the path of life known to me. Complete joy is in your presence. Pleasures are by your side forever.
Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city....39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
The idea of an immortal soul/spirit within a man is of Greek philosophy, that of Plato, it's not biblical. I will listen to the prophet David who died in hope of his resurrection. He did not see his death as him being eternally dead. David through his faith in Christ as God gave him the truth of the future, he saw his death as thus only SLEEP, where he would awake to life once more. Paul likewise speaks of this same hope and this same sleep of death.
Hi Dave,
Adam means human, why we see Adam translated in the OT as "man" over 400 times. A human is a creature/soul that God had made of a certain kind of flesh compared to other creatures/souls that God had made, as birds have one kind of flesh, and fish have another..
In the NT the word anthropos/human is translated as man over 550 times.
Jesus IS the Son of MAN, he is a human who is the root and offspring of David. The Son of MAN/HUMAN sits at God's right hand as a HUMAN and he is returning as a HUMAN.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men/HUMANS, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
God made humans in His own image, the Son of God in Romans 8 you are directly told IS the firstborn of the dead of many brethren, and we are promised to be made in the image of God's Son.
Jesus is likewise called the heavenly MAN/HUMAN.
Jesus is likewise called the Last Adam/HUMAN. Jesus is a HUMAN according to Acts that was raised to life being given the promised Holy Spirit and the promised mercies of David. You are told that he is going to sit on his father David's throne according to the FLESH. Not weak mortal flesh that dies and lives in fear of death, that is able to tempt you against God's way, but flesh of glory, power, that is incorruptible where there is no more temptation, where the HUMAN has been set free.
1 Cor 15:47 The first man/HUMAN is of the earth, earthy: the second man/HUMAN is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
We are still promised to be HUMANS, the second HUMAN is an heir of God and we are promised in Romans 8 to also be heirs of God being joint heirs with Christ. As Paul says those that are LED by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God. Humans that are fully led by the Spirit of God are heavenly.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? THIS SAME Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
Paul tells us in the next verses that verse 37 is that which the FOOL would say or believe,
Here is the truth,
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
Just as one kind of grain is it's own kind of grain, and one kind of flesh is it's own kind of flesh, one kind doesn't change into a different kind such is foolishness, as God did in fact give each kind it's own body as it pleased him, and to ever seed his own kind of body where each kind has it's own glory.
We are changed indeed, BUT NOT as to what kind of body that we have, just as alfalfa doesn't change into wheat, or a dog doesn't change into a giraffe, or a tuna into an orca, a human doesn't change from being a human. Foolish to think we would be raised into some other "kind" of body, is exactly what Paul is teaching.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
There is a natural human body, and there is a spiritual human body. We have the same "kind" of body, we are not changed into a different "kind".
The mortal human puts on immortality becoming an immortal human given that immortality for all eternity.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
You are directly told that humans are raised in an order, Christ first and then those at his coming. You are directly told that Jesus is a heavenly HUMAN. You are directly told that Jesus is the last Adam/HUMAN and we become as he is. You are directly told that God made HUMANS in His own image and that He declared the END from the beginning. "Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men/HUMANS, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God"
Adam means human, why we see Adam translated in the OT as "man" over 400 times. A human is a creature/soul that God had made of a certain kind of flesh compared to other creatures/souls that God had made, as birds have one kind of flesh, and fish have another..
In the NT the word anthropos/human is translated as man over 550 times.
Jesus IS the Son of MAN, he is a human who is the root and offspring of David. The Son of MAN/HUMAN sits at God's right hand as a HUMAN and he is returning as a HUMAN.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men/HUMANS, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
God made humans in His own image, the Son of God in Romans 8 you are directly told IS the firstborn of the dead of many brethren, and we are promised to be made in the image of God's Son.
Jesus is likewise called the heavenly MAN/HUMAN.
Jesus is likewise called the Last Adam/HUMAN. Jesus is a HUMAN according to Acts that was raised to life being given the promised Holy Spirit and the promised mercies of David. You are told that he is going to sit on his father David's throne according to the FLESH. Not weak mortal flesh that dies and lives in fear of death, that is able to tempt you against God's way, but flesh of glory, power, that is incorruptible where there is no more temptation, where the HUMAN has been set free.
1 Cor 15:47 The first man/HUMAN is of the earth, earthy: the second man/HUMAN is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
We are still promised to be HUMANS, the second HUMAN is an heir of God and we are promised in Romans 8 to also be heirs of God being joint heirs with Christ. As Paul says those that are LED by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God. Humans that are fully led by the Spirit of God are heavenly.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? THIS SAME Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
Paul tells us in the next verses that verse 37 is that which the FOOL would say or believe,
Here is the truth,
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
Just as one kind of grain is it's own kind of grain, and one kind of flesh is it's own kind of flesh, one kind doesn't change into a different kind such is foolishness, as God did in fact give each kind it's own body as it pleased him, and to ever seed his own kind of body where each kind has it's own glory.
We are changed indeed, BUT NOT as to what kind of body that we have, just as alfalfa doesn't change into wheat, or a dog doesn't change into a giraffe, or a tuna into an orca, a human doesn't change from being a human. Foolish to think we would be raised into some other "kind" of body, is exactly what Paul is teaching.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
There is a natural human body, and there is a spiritual human body. We have the same "kind" of body, we are not changed into a different "kind".
The mortal human puts on immortality becoming an immortal human given that immortality for all eternity.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
You are directly told that humans are raised in an order, Christ first and then those at his coming. You are directly told that Jesus is a heavenly HUMAN. You are directly told that Jesus is the last Adam/HUMAN and we become as he is. You are directly told that God made HUMANS in His own image and that He declared the END from the beginning. "Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men/HUMANS, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God"
Davy
Well-Known Member
Everything you've quoted is from the Old Testament Scripture, totally disregarding New Testament like Matthew 10:28 and Luke 23:43. And... you keep repeating yourself, refusing to address these New Testament Scriptures from my Lord Jesus Christ!
Davy
Well-Known Member
Ah... the HUMANITY quotient, an idea that does not even exist... in The New Testament! That instead is a philosophical doctrine from the translated texts of Wescott & Hort (1881) which has been used to translate most modern New Testament Bibles. The KJV, which uses the Majority Texts, which mean the majority of New Testament manuscripts in existence used by the early Church, does not make use of that HUMANITY new age philosophy.
So you are only continuing to dig a deeper whole for yourself and your 'new age' ideas wrongly applied to God's Word. You might try using a KJV Bible for a while and get away from the newer translations that use Wescott and Hort's corrupt text.
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