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Featured (Refuting) The (Original Sin) Doctrine!!

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by DoveSpirit05, Dec 26, 2019.

  1. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    Many people in churches today especially the cultic denominations like the catholic church and the watch tower group think that people are born sinners and not only that but even think they have a sinful nature that they can nether eradicate and that all they can do is just (strive) along and hope for the best and if they sin weather wilfully or unwilfully they can just ask God for forgiveness each time and it will be ok. This is wats been taught in most churches 2day people.


    Catholics think that babies are born sinners!! Its why they sprinkle babies with water, if that’s the case den why does jesus say in matthew 18:3 you must become like a little child to enter into heaven, in other words babies are innocent.


    How can a baby be a sinner? They barely have the capacity to even think let alone even move and yet their supposed have the understanding of wat sin is. Sin is not innate, its not done on impulse, sin is a choice acted out upon our free will which requires an understanding to begin with.


    Sin is a premeditated thing which also has to be thought out, its deciding to or not 2 do something iver way the person doing it has an understanding of wat their doing. Yes we have inherited the carnal nature and incorruptible flesh from our ancestors but that’s not a licence. Sin is a choice, we can always choose to or not to regardless of our canal nature!!


    Jesus said to the adulterer (Go and sin no more) john 8:5-11 was he commanding the impossible? Not according 2 deu 30:11 my commandments are not far from you. Not according 2 1 corith 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not (common to man). God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability.


    Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Our obligations nether exceed our abilities if so then It would be unfair for God to command something that could nether be achieve.
     
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  2. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Babies are born what/who they are born of. What are they a child of? If they are born a son or daughter of the lineage of Adam, then they are born of sin and are a sinner. That is why we must be born again...because what is born of God is not born of sin.
     
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  3. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Well-Known Member

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    Babies are not born sinners, but they are born sinful.
    Even very small children sin: as soon as they are physically and mentally capable of disobeying their parents, they disobey. And thus they break the fifth commandment. Absence of sinful actions is no indicator of purity, for God’s verdict on the human race before the Flood was, every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.” (Genesis 6:5) We are all evil by nature (Matthew 7:11); there are no innocents… “There is no-one righteous, not even one.” (Romans 3:10)
     
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  4. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    one sec people!!


    Couple of verses from excuses city that people like to use substantiate why they cant stop sinning. Pslam 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. and Psalm 58:3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
    from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.


    First off dis is poetic literature. The word psalm means hymn or song and in many of the chapters ull see the word (salah) which means next verse of a hymn or next paragraph. Many of the poetic books like psalms, proverbs, ecclesiastes and sos!! Are full of pithy’s and imaginative text. meaning their not to be taken literally but as a general truth, or piece of wisdom.


    Also jewish poems are different then say English poems. English poems are mainly about rhythm and rhyming. But jewish poems use wats called synthetic parallels which I can get into later.


    Book of pslams was written by david at the most part at terrible times of his life. Like for instances this is the same person who got his best friend killed and then slept with his wife, was punished by God and had his child die. And his best friend and even his own son wanted to kill him. Pslam 51:5 was written at a time where david had done a lot of backsliding, this was a time of sorrows and he was crying out 2 God for forgiveness.



    So I don’t think this is a book that you wanna use for moral instruction and to formulate a doctrine from as opposed to a lot of the books in the NT they are more literal based.
     
  5. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    Hay man I don't think u read my op but anyway!!

    Yes we have inherited the carnal nature and incorruptible flesh but that doesn't automatically make us sinners!!

    I would like a peaceful discussion with you if u don't mind, lets not become antagonised like other members of dis forum!!
    lets go through verses and let the scriptures do the talking not our own opinions or pre-conceived notions!! psalms 18:2
     
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  6. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    Your first paragraph is not true. First many more than just Catholics baptize infants, there are the Anglicans, Episcopalian, Orthodox, Lutheran, Methodist, and most Liturgical Churches including mine. Baptism washes away the stain of Ancestral Sin and it is akin to circumcision of the OT, now the infant still has to decide to follow Christ but half of the requirement to being saved is already down.
     
  7. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Peaceable is good.

    The bottom line here was inadvertently made clear by Jesus: That unless or until we are born again of the spirit of God, our father is the devil (Satan)...so, yes, we are first born sinners. That is: John 8:44 combined with 1 Corinthians 15:50.

    Because, as it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;" Romans 3:10
     
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  8. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    wohh wohh sorry I gotta stop u there, dat is a big leap there!! john 8:44 is talking about conduct, state of mind, the Pharisees were already drenched in sin by that time!! lying, cheating, conspiring against jesus, prideful, boasters of themselves etc.

    yes their of their father the devil because of who they'd become not how they started out!! that's a lot different dan say a child who doesn't know better and maybe sneaks a candy out the candy store!! is his father the devil? or noah who sinned one time and God called him perfect in his generation, is his father the devil? God forbid right!! and a new born baby who hasn't even uttered a word etc!! I think u get the point.

    yes I agree wiv 1 corith 15:50 no flesh will enter into heaven, but the spirit will, when were born again were born again of the spirit not the flesh!!
     
  9. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You can't have it both ways. Either "There is none righteous, no, not one", or nothing that is written means anything, or worse, God is a liar.

    But that passage is just one of many. Another is the idea that comes to light with passing "from death to life." One would have to go way out of their way to build a case for some start out alive because they are born innocent. But, no, there is no case for it. All scripture agrees, none are righteous.
     
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  10. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    I'm sorry but i'm just not going 2 debate a caltholic at this time!! theres so much wrong with your false religion I could be here for a month typing!! u people just aint ready 2 here the truth and i'm tied of the fruit picking!!

    If u like I could do a separate debate with u but right know u need prayer which is what I do believe it or not anyway, I pray for people like urself in bondage. And also u need to look at history!! be a berean not a church building dweller.

    God bless!!
     
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  11. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    It wold be nice if you bothered to know what a person was before you spoke, it is in my profile and my signature, I am not Catholic. Could you also write in proper English instead of lazy type, you going to insult me with something I am not than please use correct grammar to do so.
     
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  12. Steve Owen

    Steve Owen Active Member

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    You have to teach a baby everything: how to be clean, how to hold a spoon, how to clean his teeth and so forth, but you never have to tell them how to be naughty! They get that without any trouble.
    You never need to say to a little child, "Now Johnny, this is how you tell a lie; you think of something that isn't true and then you tell it as if it is." And you never have to say, "Now Jenny, this is how to be selfish; you keep all your toys to yourself and you don't let your little brother play with them." They learn all of that stuff for themselves. I'm a new Grandpa, and I love my little grandson to bits, but I see the sinful nature in him already. He isn't talking yet so he can't tell lies, but he bullies his Mum already to get his own way, and he won't share his toys with other children. She's going to have to take a stronger hand with him.
     
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  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what the Bible teaches.

    1. All human beings have an inherent sin nature which has come down through Adam (Rom 5:12). It is called "the old man" or "the flesh".

    2. All human beings will die because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23; 6:23)

    3. The sin nature is NOT eradicated even after people are saved (Rom 7:17)

    So instead of talking about cults, study the Bible and learn what the sin nature is all about.
     
  14. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    One sec!!

    many false doctrines and even cults are formed coz of miss-interpretation
    speshly of poetic scripture like job, pslams etc. you cant take poetic scripture and formulate a doctrine out of it!! dat just wont work!! I had a JW!! come 2 my house the other day and quote pslam 1:1-2 but when I asked her do you still sin she said know ones perfect!! well matt 5:48 says what you need 2 do so I think she needs 2 get her priorities in order 1st before she starts quoting pslams.
     
  15. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    bro in Romans 3 hes addressing the jews man! gotta take it in context, he's telling dem what coz ur jews u think ur saved!!

    9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both 'Jews and Greeks are under sin,

    10 as it is written:
    None is righteous, no, not one;
    11 no one understands;
    no one seeks for God.
    12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
    no one does good,
    not even one.”
    13 Their throat is an open grave;
    they use their tongues to deceive.”
    T)'The venom of asps is under their lips.”
    14 Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
    15 Their feet are swift to shed blood;
    16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
    17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
    18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

    and if dats one of many bring dem, bring ur cross references, put all ur cards on the table, lets not just use our own beliefs!!
     
  16. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    know!! wat does the bible say, lean not on our own understanding but turn 2 God and he will make our paths straight!! psalm 3:5-6
    well God says matthew 18:3 you must become like a little child to enter into heaven, now why would God say dat if children are sinners!!
    theirs no getting around dat verse bro unless ur also calling God a liar?
     
  17. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    I'm not denying that man, im saying theres a big difference from not sharing ur toys and going into a bank and robbing it, now which one of those is a choice? we do have a carnal nuture yes which I stated in op which makes us greedy and needy but dat itself doesn't make us sinners, people plz pay more attention to my OP's and don't be 2 quick 2 refute me!! I no its very tempting to do which inturn is also carnal, bible says to enquire of a matter 1st before you come with an answer.

    all the best.
     
  18. Steve Owen

    Steve Owen Active Member

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    I think you'll find it does. Greed is the root from which grows corruption, theft, embezzlement and murder.
     
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  19. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    not being funny but I spoke 2 u b4, ur just giving me opinion!! with no scripture, u need 2 go and study scripture more, history, look up bible studies, commentaries, bible says study 2 show urself approved, 2 timothy 2:15 do u agree wiv dat verse?
     
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  20. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    Also du know that paul is making a jewish connotation when he says " there are non righteous not one" he's referring to Sodom gen 9 not 2 us even tho I admit non of us are righteous iver but I'm just saying!!
     
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