Who is Jesus?

[bbyrd009]

I would love to say belief is everything, the burden is lifted etc. except Jesus simply asks us to walk His path with the Holy Spirit which is easy and light.

ya ok, well let's not forget the count the cost part eh, and that we mostly forget all about that you wont run out of towns before I come again part right?

 

[bbyrd009]

Being enticed by sin is like being in a haze, it makes sense by overwhelming sensations, but equally is just that, pointless.
The kingdom of light is about seeing and accepting consequences, and working with limitations and in the confines of what
is possible, while lawlessness abandons these limits and lets excess reign.

hey, fab sermon, ty, but this does not address under the law as near as i can tell? Which you have already admitted to being under?

"Greys" what are they? There are groups who believe in other entities, so to which do you belong?

well, i no longer have a bargain with death, i no longer believe my soul will go to heaven only after i have died, to become an immortal, via Jesus as Apollos, so wadr address the Scriptures or bam Quote some yourself!

Couldn't what you believe right now be called "Death, more abundantly?" Arent you anxious to leave earth? Soon? So, to which do you belong?

 

[bbyrd009]

I go to church to worship Jesus with my brothers and sisters in Christ, to have fellowship and encourage one another.
And yes at the breaking of bread, it is a love feast, and also carrying our cross daily, and giving time and space to Jesus and His calling.

so then do that, but recognize that you cannot Quote any meaningful Scripture in that vein, while i can Quote copious Scripture that suggests you are not worshipping Yah at all ok. Now Quote me some "worshipping Jesus" and lets see imo, or understand that i am not condemning anyone for their beliefs here anyway, there is no judgement for beliefs, even the Roman Centurion was lauded for his faith.

But we are taught to believe that Jesus is "returning" right, when that cannot be Quoted, for a very good reason imo

I do not know how I would regard various early church fathers, but I would not call them wolves.

ha well of course not, we grew up with them after all right, im sure you could not get a Catholic to deem the pope a wolf either eh, so what, Paul did. So no offense but your opinion, 0, Paul's Scripture, 1?

Wolves is a specific term from various behaviours and heresies, which if you want to say someone is teaching, you need to be very specific and so it can be seen in balance.

specifically, we are taugt to worship Jesus as Apollos over worshipping Yah in spirit and in truth bc we all want to go somewhere special after we have died, heaven, to become immortals, to get rewarded for what we should have been doing anyway, and we dig a pit for others to fall into in the process, not sure how much more specific i could be wadr, and note how you have made yourself the arbiter here if you would? I have to do that, and i have to do this? I dont have to do anything ok, and you are not required to believe like me either!

There is only One Immortal, No one has ever gone up to heaven, You and your sons will be here with me, Where I am going you cannot come, see, all of these will remain after we are both long gone right, regardless of either of our beliefs?

 

[bbyrd009]

it is saying what is actually happening

ha well, so you say, but wadr that is strictly your opinion, right? Iow that is your current belief, even though you present it as Absolute Truth? "it is saying what is?" See, i am only making a suggestion via Scripture, ok? Scriptures that i cannot seem to get you to even address?

 

[bbyrd009]

and the consequences of such a belief system.

wadr if you want to address some other belief system, then start a thread; i am here to address the belief system that incorporates, literally, Jesus as a vehicle by which a believer might attain immortality, which is pretty much what every believer reading this currently believes, right? Your bargain with the grave will be annulled
i guess, and have a nice day ok, gotta run

i do not condemn anyone, i started the exact same way, with the exact same beliefs, under Some Guy who turns out signed a Contract for Jesus, that adds up to 666 may Yah bless him too

 

[FollowHim]

so then do that, but recognize that you cannot Quote any meaningful Scripture in that vein, while i can Quote copious Scripture that suggests you are not worshipping Yah at all ok. Now Quote me some "worshipping Jesus" and lets see imo, or understand that i am not condemning anyone for their beliefs here anyway, there is no judgement for beliefs, even the Roman Centurion was lauded for his faith.

But we are taught to believe that Jesus is "returning" right, when that cannot be Quoted, for a very good reason imo
ha well of course not, we grew up with them after all right, im sure you could not get a Catholic to deem the pope a wolf either eh, so what, Paul did. So no offense but your opinion, 0, Paul's Scripture, 1?
specifically, we are taugt to worship Jesus as Apollos over worshipping Yah in spirit and in truth bc we all want to go somewhere special after we have died, heaven, to become immortals, to get rewarded for what we should have been doing anyway, and we dig a pit for others to fall into in the process, not sure how much more specific i could be wadr, and note how you have made yourself the arbiter here if you would? I have to do that, and i have to do this? I dont have to do anything ok, and you are not required to believe like me either!

There is only One Immortal, No one has ever gone up to heaven, You and your sons will be here with me, Where I am going you cannot come, see, all of these will remain after we are both long gone right, regardless of either of our beliefs?

I like to read what you believe, but it does not reflect scripture

Jesus's return, clearly laid out in scripture

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed –
in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

1 Thessalonians 5:2
For you know quite well that the day of the Lord will come in the same way as a thief in the night.

Acts 1:10-11
As they were still staring into the sky while he was going, suddenly two men in white clothing stood near them
and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand here looking up into the sky? This same Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven will come back in the same way you saw him go into heaven.”

Worship of the Lord, some of the many scriptures that could be quoted

Gen 4:26
At that time people began to worship the LORD

Psalm 89:15-17
How blessed are the people who worship you! O LORD, they experience your favor.
They rejoice in your name all day long, and are vindicated by your justice.
For you give them splendor and strength. By your favor we are victorious.

Phil 3:3
For we are the circumcision, the ones who worship by the Spirit of God, exult in Christ Jesus, and do not rely on human credentials

 

[FollowHim]

ha well, so you say, but wadr that is strictly your opinion, right? Iow that is your current belief, even though you present it as Absolute Truth? "it is saying what is?" See, i am only making a suggestion via Scripture, ok? Scriptures that i cannot seem to get you to even address?

Please tell me which scriptures you want addressing?
I am not afraid of scripture, only of my limited understanding of them.

 

[FollowHim]

wadr if you want to address some other belief system, then start a thread; i am here to address the belief system that incorporates, literally, Jesus as a vehicle by which a believer might attain immortality, which is pretty much what every believer reading this currently believes, right? Your bargain with the grave will be annulled
i guess, and have a nice day ok, gotta run

i do not condemn anyone, i started the exact same way, with the exact same beliefs, under Some Guy who turns out signed a Contract for Jesus, that adds up to 666 may Yah bless him too

I as all believers in Christ love Him. Whether He bring eternal life or not, is actually up to the Lord, it is the path that interests us most and how to walk it. I came to Christ to make sense of my family and my life experience. I was lost in confusion, without any clear direction or motivation in which to move. I had though lots of burning issues which I wanted answers to, and it was Jesus who supplied them.

In a strange way meeting the Lord is gaining eternal life, because the life with Him is the beginning of a life that will never end, but as a believer I did not really appreciate this. I wanted to resolve my sin, my guilt, my shame, my confusion and find peace. It is like a blind man stumbling in the dark, bumping into things and not knowing why or how they can see or know what is and is not. The woman caught in adultery summarised so much, legalism, compromise, acceptance, forgiveness and the desire once life is set straight to walk in it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus's return, clearly laid out in scripture

with not a single hupostrepho nor shuvu in sight, right, so wadr "clearly" your imagination mixed in with some expectations and desires, but not Scripture, sorry. Christ is revealed, appears, even comes again, to those who were blind and could not see before, yes, but nonetheless I will never leave you nor forsake you, so see its the blind leading the blind, and not Jesus moving around anywhere, wadr

Worship of the Lord, some of the many scriptures that could be quoted

wadr "Lord" is an Anglish translation of a word you do not even know yet, and Yah does not "lord" it over anyone, "lord" is a hideous interpretation to hold of Yah once you think about it, to hell with all "lords" imo. I could easily demo how "lord" is also applied to ppl in Scripture, not going to bother, bam worship your High Priest as long as you like ok, i understand

I like to read what you believe, but it does not reflect scripture

? lol, i pretty much been exclusively Quoting Scripture?

Jesus's return, clearly laid out in scripture

oh goodie, another round of "nevermind that whatabout this"

Please tell me which scriptures you want addressing?

the ones in italics might be a good start sis, and i wish you the best ok? I am not asking you to alter your beliefs right this second ok, i understand that this will require some contemplation. Test everything, and keep what is good imo. Worship Jesus until the day you die if you like, when you believe your "afterlife" will begin, right? Ok with me, pretty sure you wont even be judged for that, but you will reap what you sow i guess, and imo that is a bunch of wind

I as all believers in Christ love Him.

well, believers in Jesus anyway, right, and who doesnt love love? lol
so bs, wadr. "Your love's like rhinestones, falling from the sky"

Whether He bring eternal life or not, is actually up to the Lord, it is the path that interests us most and how to walk it.

then imo the Two of You should maybe obey Jesus' explicit--iow not implicit, explicit; clearly said and recorded, even as we go to Luby's for a little post-baptism celebration instead right--instructions on going to another town, stay in one house, eat what they feed you rather than forcing bad definitions on terms like "eternal" that are, after all, spaces of time? Bc im pretty sure as far as we are concerned anyway eternity will end when we die, from eternity to eternity.

I as all believers in Christ love Him. Whether He bring eternal life or not, is actually up to the Lord, it is the path that interests us most and how to walk it. I came to Christ to make sense of my family and my life experience. I was lost in confusion, without any clear direction or motivation in which to move. I had though lots of burning issues which I wanted answers to, and it was Jesus who supplied them.

In a strange way meeting the Lord is gaining eternal life, because the life with Him is the beginning of a life that will never end, but as a believer I did not really appreciate this. I wanted to resolve my sin, my guilt, my shame, my confusion and find peace. It is like a blind man stumbling in the dark, bumping into things and not knowing why or how they can see or know what is and is not. The woman caught in adultery summarised so much, legalism, compromise, acceptance, forgiveness and the desire once life is set straight to walk in it.

that is all interesting, dont get me wrong ok, it is even a great beginning imo, but it is wadr just more "nevermind that, what about this?" as long as you refuse to address the Scriptures i have Quoted. The ones you Quote i could offer a diff interp for, no reason those could not happen today for instance, but we are not even close to there yet wadr; suffice it to say that we accept the interp that most accomodates our expectations and desires, and Scripture was after all written so as to hide wisdom from the wise. Yes, we will not all "sleep" or iow remain cluelessly worshipping Jesus as Apollos our whole lives, some few will actually "get it" and that always comes as a what we call a "realization," "in an instant" iow, I will never leave you nor forsake you, I desire mercy, not sacrifice, No son of man may die for another, et al
No, you will not be Quoting "Jesus shuvu" or "Jesus hupostrepho" today, bc they are not in There, but bam give it your best shot.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Bc im pretty sure as far as we are concerned anyway eternity will end when we die

Two questions about “will end when we die.” 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Only ask because I’m confused there. Is it when we die “crucified with Christ” or go into a casket? Ask also because Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

if one has been baptized into His death ...passed from death unto Life ...then the second death holds no power? 1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[bbyrd009]

Is it when we die “crucified with Christ” or go into a casket?

exactly imo, if we paid attn when we were getting ritually baptized and died to self, then we wouldnt be all obsessed with becoming immortals after we literally died now would we. And all that "future" jazz we could apply to our post-baptism experience? So iow we--quite loudly and plainly imo--broadcast whether we have died to self or not, pretty much every time we post i guess. When we die is when we are crucified with Christ, or when we go into a casket, and we get to choose.

Also we are dead until then i guess, right, so symbolic thinking is not optional imo, obv spiritually dead is not literally dead, etc, let the dead bury the dead

 

[DPMartin]

We like to think the Jesus we are taught is at least pretty close, but what if its not?

What if "Jesus (=Joshua, the most common name in the world then apparently) of Nazareth (can anything good come from Nazareth?)" means something completely different from what they told us?

what if you're not really a christain at all, and trying to deceive as many as you can?

 

[bbyrd009]

because the life with Him is the beginning of a life that will never end, but as a believer I did not really appreciate this.

you and your sons will be here with me nonetheless, right? So @ "the beginning of a life that will never end," i wouldnt be writing that in stone just yet ok, although sure our spirit goes back to Yah, Who gave it. But literally speaking, your life = a snowball on a sunny day, ok? A flower is what our mortal lives are compared to in Scripture, right?

 

[bbyrd009]

what if you're not really a christain at all, and trying to deceive as many as you can?

into life, more abundantly over Death, More Abundantly? Or i mean what exactly am i trying to deceive you into believing iyo, dp? I mean here, i will Quote some Scriptures, and you tell me which i am misquoting ok,
No one has ever gone up to heaven
All go to the same place
Where I am going you cannot come
There is only One Immortal
You and your sons will be here with me
If you dig a pit for others to fall into, you end up in it yourself
Your bargain with death will be annulled

 

[bbyrd009]

clearly

believe it or not is is the biggest clue on this page, ok. You declaring that you see things "clearly?" No offense but that makes you the most deceived, see

 

[FollowHim]

believe it or not is is the biggest clue on this page, ok. You declaring that you see things "clearly?" No offense but that makes you the most deceived, see

You could be right or you could be wrong. When we draw any conclusion, it is based on what has gone before, our logic, our challenges, our confirmation of what we know. To date other than continual statements that you do not agree with traditional interpretation of scripture and say the church is worshipping Apollos, it adds nothing other than a statement. To have power and foundation you need to follow up why you think this.
Now you could make an argument for making Sunday the day of celebration, we are abandoning Gods sabbath.
Some do such as the Seventh Day Adventists.
What I appreciate from any group is how they lay out their belief system and logic.
You seem to be unable to do this.

The problem with conviction, is as humans we can be convinced in ourselves something is true, but once worked through it turns out to be a drug induced conviction without any foundation. You appear not to have any. If you do can you quote the scripture and theology which supports it?
You talked about the "greys" but have not addressed this. What are the greys? Are you a grey? Am I a grey?

 

[bbyrd009]

You could be right or you could be wrong. When we draw any conclusion, it is based on what has gone before, our logic, our challenges, our confirmation of what we know. To date other than continual statements that you do not agree with traditional interpretation of scripture and say the church is worshipping Apollos, it adds nothing other than a statement. To have power and foundation you need to follow up why you think this.
Now you could make an argument for making Sunday the day of celebration, we are abandoning Gods sabbath.
Some do such as the Seventh Day Adventists.
What I appreciate from any group is how they lay out their belief system and logic.
You seem to be unable to do this.

The problem with conviction, is as humans we can be convinced in ourselves something is true, but once worked through it turns out to be a drug induced conviction without any foundation. You appear not to have any. If you do can you quote the scripture and theology which supports it?
You talked about the "greys" but have not addressed this. What are the greys? Are you a grey? Am I a grey?

i guess if your name is not a household word, you are a grey? And i have Quoted most of the pertinent Scripture already, more than once wadr. I keep sabbath, and i am not a SDA? So you might review the Scriptures i have posted, maybe address them if you like, or maybe DP will?

And we have others too btw, but heck i doubt anyone here has even literally seen the ones i already posted tbh, my guess is that they are just too cognitive dissonance to even acknowledge or something? You are still asking me to Quote Scripture for instance?

into life, more abundantly over Death, More Abundantly? Or i mean what exactly am i trying to deceive you into believing iyo, dp? I mean here, i will Quote some Scriptures, and you tell me which i am misquoting ok,
No one has ever gone up to heaven
All go to the same place
Where I am going you cannot come
There is only One Immortal
You and your sons will be here with me
If you dig a pit for others to fall into, you end up in it yourself
Your bargain with death will be annulled

and btw there will be no like test on sunday ok lol, i dont expect anyone to completely change their belief system today, what you believe right now is fine, surely, at least what you believe about today is, yesterday and tomorrow beliefs meh, there is no judgement for beliefs that i am aware of, only for works yeh? Go and do likewise is i guess what we are judged for?

on the greys thing, i dont think you should have to entirely learn some ancient religion, more like i would get the high points, the role of Apollos and the desire/supposed path to immortality in the Cult of Sol Invictus, of which we are all members, as what we now define as Christian

 

[bbyrd009]

You could be right or you could be wrong.

yup

When we draw any conclusion, it is based on what has gone before, our logic, our challenges, our confirmation of what we know.

as seen with our Two Eyes, yeh, dint really mean to get into man's sense v Yah's nonsense here, but i asked you earlier the diff in satan's and the naive dialect? Little kids draw conclusions too i guess, only they hold them differently, yeh? As to what we know, we have that officially pegged at just less than 5%? And that is collectively no less. So maybe see how "eating" what is it? maybe plays into this too

 

[FollowHim]

i guess if your name is not a household word, you are a grey? And i have Quoted most of the pertinent Scripture already, more than once wadr. I keep sabbath, and i am not a SDA? So you might review the Scriptures i have posted, maybe address them if you like, or maybe DP will?

And we have others too btw, but heck i doubt anyone here has even literally seen the ones i already posted tbh, my guess is that they are just too cognitive dissonance to even acknowledge or something? You are still asking me to Quote Scripture for instance?
and btw there will be no like test on sunday ok lol, i dont expect anyone to completely change their belief system today, what you believe right now is fine, surely, at least what you believe about today is, yesterday and tomorrow beliefs meh, there is no judgement for beliefs that i am aware of, only for works yeh? Go and do likewise is i guess what we are judged for?

on the greys thing, i dont think you should have to entirely learn some ancient religion, more like i would get the high points, the role of Apollos and the desire/supposed path to immortality in the Cult of Sol Invictus, of which we are all members, as what we now define as Christian

You come across as someone touching on subjects with a few words and then stopping.
Greys for instance. You brought the phrase up, and have not said what you mean, at all.

You are interested in the "path to immortality" but just declare you opposition to traditional views on sacrifice.
Cult of Sol Invictus - roman cult of the sun, which was rejected by Christians and christian theologians like Augustine.

I was unaware of this cult. It is interesting in art, the use of the halo could be linked to this, but equally it occurs in many religions to signify light coming from a religiously significant figure. Moses glowed after returning from seeing God

Exodus 34:29
When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the LORD.

Matt 17:1-2
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.
There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

 

[bbyrd009]

You come across as someone touching on subjects with a few words and then stopping.
Greys for instance. You brought the phrase up, and have not said what you mean, at all.

well I guess bc “greys” is really not pertinent to us, we maybe (mis)use the term “lost” for that now

You are interested in the "path to immortality" but just declare you opposition to traditional views on sacrifice

I am not interested in a path to immortality, There is only one immortal, and Yah desires mercy, not sacrifice? So I maybe mixed some metaphors or something?