Who is Jesus?

[bbyrd009]

so @bbyrd009 you have made another religion, just like all the religions, and like all religions its all about self..
You remember that little self thing I wrote...
So many poured there hearts out to you, and yet you still deny Him. God gave man the freedom to choose, free will, He gives us all the choice, life or death , the smart ones choose life, but so many because of the pride of man, and religion choose death. God sends no man to hell, it is your choice. You are without excuse. and If you think death is a big Joke, Ill get Pia to write her story of how she found out what death is, the complete and utter separation from God.

And who was it that told you. you where naked,

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

and like Adam and Eve when they discovered their nakedness, you are just hiding from God, as if you could.

ah ok ty. Im afraid im not really getting you here mjr, Scripture or an interpreter maybe, we'll see

 

[bbyrd009]

God said we needed a sacrifice to be acceptable to Him

Heb 9:22
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Heb 9:28

yeh, that is the one that usually gets Quoted, but note that it is "the law" that requires blood, not Yah.

It was actually this v getting repeatedly misquoted--"under the law" gets omitted, even happened here--that got me started on this path! I still even recall the last time it was misquoted, in Flint.

So no offense but maybe put the shovel down for just a second, and consider. Or no, i guess this is the way, fine. Note that there is no pit dug for you if you decide to keep believing...differently, ok? Yah still loves you, you still keep reaping what you have sown, etc

but what you are really doing there--and i even hesitate to say this bc it will be read as condemnation prolly, but pls consider--is admitting that you are still under the law!

God said we needed a sacrifice to be acceptable to Him

Heb 9:22
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Heb 9:28
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

bbyfd - it is possible to theorise about faith and build ones own religion, but Christianity is based on scripture and its concepts and teaching. What is taught in churches that reflect scripture represent what is written and is carefully constructed so as to teach its meaning. It would seem to me you have left biblical beliefs for something else. God bless you

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

look, and im not denying any of those points, either, ok? We needed a blood sacrifice, in our minds, and so we got one, but that does not mean that Yah needed a "perfect sacrifice" etc as we are taught.

Yes, i imagine it will certainly seem as if im "creating my own religion" when i start pushing "He came that we might have life, more abundantly" and "No one has ever gone up to heaven" and "There is only One Immortal," and fwiw i dont even blame yall for trying here, keep trying even ok, but im pretty sure we are all trained to be Cult of Sol now, Mithraism for women iow, and if there are vv that will make your case i hope yall find them.

my theories about faith seem to be running counter to your sayings too wadr, i am quick to Quote I have not seen such faith from anyone in Israel am i not?

What is taught in churches that reflect scripture represent what is written

those are not even "churches," sorry, and they are controlled by Paul's wolves anyway, right, i know the wolves will rush in as soon as i leave, not sparing the flock. Wisdom is hidden from the wise. Scribes?

and is carefully constructed so as to teach its meaning.

that part i agree with, the construction part, yeh

It would seem to me you have left biblical beliefs for something else.

yeh, life, more abundantly ok, bc i am not the one worshipping Jesus as Apollos. Might be doing something else wrong, but at least im celebrating Passover

and ps fwiw if you had read some of mjrs stuff on the cross, and how we arent supposed to be picking it up, i bet you would be squirming a lot more right now too. "Church" is made of living stones i guess, dunno if you heard that one yet. Well i know you didnt huh, but there it is. or i mean i can Quote that if you need. Have a nice day

 

[brakelite]

KJV 1 Corinthians 5
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

For 4000 years the lambs of the people of God pointed forward in type to the Lamb of God slain as antitype. The entire sacrificial system was established by God as a pictorial demonstration of the gospel whereby self sacrifice was the foundation of redeeming love. Jesus' death was not a human sacrifice offered by sinful hypocritical priests but a laying down of His own life, He being both Lamb and Priest, which began at creation and took a no turning back commitment with the incarnation and the laying off of the divine attributes, our redemption ratified at Calvary with the shedding of blood and complete separation from the Father in death at Calvary, culminating in the resurrection and made effectual for us all through His ongoing ministry as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary.
Jesus didn't die for our sins... He died because of them.
And He is as worthy of worship as His Father, being the express image of His Father and now seated upon His Father's throne having the same glory, honour, power, and divine prerogatives, yet still human, as His Father.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hebrews 7:13-17 was forwarded yesterday as an argument against Jesus as our High Priest, which i didnt really get it, but yall might agree, dunno. Seemed to make my point tbh, by reading further i mean, and not stopping at 17?

 

[bbyrd009]

For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

yes, for you, not for Yah. brb on the rest ok

For 4000 years the lambs of the people of God pointed forward in type to the Lamb of God slain as antitype. The entire sacrificial system was established by God as a pictorial demonstration of the gospel whereby self sacrifice was the foundation of redeeming love.

so bam pick up your own cross and follow, greater things shall you do even, shall we "worship" you then?

Jesus' death was not a human sacrifice offered by sinful hypocritical priests but a laying down of His own life, He being both Lamb and Priest, which began at creation and took a no turning back commitment with the incarnation and the laying off of the divine attributes, our redemption ratified at Calvary with the shedding of blood and complete separation from the Father in death at Calvary, culminating in the resurrection and made effectual for us all through His ongoing ministry as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary.
Jesus didn't die for our sins... He died because of them.

well i guess Christ did anyway, yes,
imo we do not agree yet on Whom Jesus even was; and you might note that you agree with the world's perspective on Jesus, whereas i do not fwiw, but anyway,
Bible Search: Jesus died for our sins
now just Quote me that v ok, or even pick up Triumph's point if you like, as i didnt quite get it yesterday, maybe he has a pertinent one, i dunno. Post above, Hebrews.

And worship our High Priest as long as you like ok, idc, i even understand, but that puts you under the law, as long as you require blood. Esau.

 

[bbyrd009]

Bible Search: Christ died for our sins

 

[bbyrd009]

as long as you require blood. Esau.

Give me some of that red stew, or i will die!

 

[bbyrd009]

And He is as worthy of worship as His Father, being the express image of His Father and now seated upon His Father's throne having the same glory, honour, power, and divine prerogatives, yet still human, as His Father.

then Quote that and let's see! And the definition of "worship" which imo is not something accomplished every other Sunday in a mortgaged building you now call "church" we can deal with later i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

your bargain with the grave will not stand, ok? When the terrible enemy sweeps through, you will be trampled, according to Isaiah. Christ came that we might have life, more abundantly, not Death, more abundantly, which is what you believe now right? Even if you dont particularly like the characterization, thats ezackly what you believe now, isnt it?

That you will (soon, of course, always very soon, tomorrow even, as long as it isnt today, never today right) leave earth and go Somewhere Special, anywhere but that pit you have dug for others to fall into, right?

you and your sons will be here with me
There is only One Immortal
No one has ever gone up to heaven
Where I am going you cannot come
etc, ad nauseum even
Apollos waters

 

[FollowHim]

yeh, that is the one that usually gets Quoted, but note that it is "the law" that requires blood, not Yah.

It was actually this v getting repeatedly misquoted--"under the law" gets omitted, even happened here--that got me started on this path! I still even recall the last time it was misquoted, in Flint.

So no offense but maybe put the shovel down for just a second, and consider. Or no, i guess this is the way, fine. Note that there is no pit dug for you if you decide to keep believing...differently, ok? Yah still loves you, you still keep reaping what you have sown, etc

but what you are really doing there--and i even hesitate to say this bc it will be read as condemnation prolly, but pls consider--is admitting that you are still under the law!

look, and im not denying any of those points, either, ok? We needed a blood sacrifice, in our minds, and so we got one, but that does not mean that Yah needed a "perfect sacrifice" etc as we are taught.

Yes, i imagine it will certainly seem as if im "creating my own religion" when i start pushing "He came that we might have life, more abundantly" and "No one has ever gone up to heaven" and "There is only One Immortal," and fwiw i dont even blame yall for trying here, keep trying even ok, but im pretty sure we are all trained to be Cult of Sol now, Mithraism for women iow, and if there are vv that will make your case i hope yall find them.

my theories about faith seem to be running counter to your sayings too wadr, i am quick to Quote I have not seen such faith from anyone in Israel am i not?
those are not even "churches," sorry, and they are controlled by Paul's wolves anyway, right, i know the wolves will rush in as soon as i leave, not sparing the flock. Wisdom is hidden from the wise. Scribes?

that part i agree with, the construction part, yeh

yeh, life, more abundantly ok, bc i am not the one worshipping Jesus as Apollos. Might be doing something else wrong, but at least im celebrating Passover

and ps fwiw if you had read some of mjrs stuff on the cross, and how we arent supposed to be picking it up, i bet you would be squirming a lot more right now too. "Church" is made of living stones i guess, dunno if you heard that one yet. Well i know you didnt huh, but there it is. or i mean i can Quote that if you need. Have a nice day

"is admitting that you are still under the law!"

This is the problem, thank you. You are lawless, a person without restriction or boundary, nothing any more is wrong or sinful, everything is ok, anarchy rules, the end of the Kingdom of God has come and the reign of the lunatic.

We are under the law of Christ, which fulfils the law of Moses.
And this is the law of love, the law of communion with the Father through Christ the Son.

This is not condemnation but liberty, because only law breakers are the ones guilty of sin.

1 Tim 1:8-10
But we know that the law is good if someone uses it legitimately, realizing that law is not intended for a righteous person, but for lawless and rebellious people, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers – in fact, for any who live contrary to sound teaching.

1 Cor 9:21
To those free from the law I became like one free from the law (though I am not free from God’s law but under the law of Christ) to gain those free from the law.

Paul describes his life as being a slave to righteousness

Rom 6:18
having been freed from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness.

We are to avoid evil and do good, aiming at perfection.
Now these concepts seem far from the position you are holding. I am interested in knowing Pauls and Peters position on the Lord and walking in His ways, in purity, holiness and like Jesus, more than anything else, because this is literally what they are calling all believers in Jesus to do, and funnily, all those truly born from on High will listen, because that is the mark Jesus gave on His sheep, Amen. God bless you

 

[bbyrd009]

"Mithraism and Christianity" might be google searched for more, i guess the Cult of Sol grew out of Mithraism, which was strictly for soldiers then, who were all men then although i guess that doesnt apply today huh, we got women warriors now lol, but anyway believe me i did not make any of this up, i am even very late to the game i guess.

And also any thoughtful OG pastor might verify much of this, ok? Your pastor likely knows that Jesus did not die for our sins already, and that we are all going to the same place, just go ask him!

 

[FollowHim]

then Quote that and let's see! And the definition of "worship" which imo is not something accomplished every other Sunday in a mortgaged building you now call "church" we can deal with later i guess

Worship is exalting something higher than oneself, to which obedience, honour and praise is given.
It is not a difficult concept, and you see worship of things in many forms all over society.

 

[FollowHim]

"Mithraism and Christianity" might be google searched for more, i guess the Cult of Sol grew out of Mithraism, which was strictly for soldiers then, who were all men then although i guess that doesnt apply today huh, we got women warriors now lol, but anyway believe me i did not make any of this up, i am even very late to the game i guess.

And also any thoughtful OG pastor might verify much of this, ok? Your pastor likely knows that Jesus did not die for our sins already, and that we are all going to the same place, just go ask him!

I like your projection, about knowledge and pastors. Studying theology and beliefs often means one knows more than pastors who are taken up with caring for people and delivering basic precepts every sunday to their congregations. So I suggest you quote your source of mithraism as historically we only know of this cult, completely male followers, through their temples and inscriptions. Atheist's love to link the bull cult and christianity because they hope to undermine the gospel but fail. The early church fathers write about all the heresies, and mithraism is not one that was an issue, because it is so different, it is obviously a different religion.

 

[bbyrd009]

"is admitting that you are still under the law!"

This is the problem, thank you. You are lawless, a person without restriction or boundary, nothing any more is wrong or sinful, everything is ok, anarchy rules, the end of the Kingdom of God has come and the reign of the lunatic.

We are under the law of Christ, which fulfils the law of Moses.

bam go with that then, if you like. Fwiw i have even said as much as your last sentence here ok, unfortunately that is not what Scripture means by "under the law" i guess

so now we need to reflect upon what "under the law" means according to Scripture i guess, and whether i am lawless or not we'll see, i have been lawless in my life for sure, but that was accompanied by some pretty obvious behavior, out-of-control behavior? Jail time, made the front page, the whole bit? lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Worship is exalting something higher than oneself, to which obedience, honour and praise is given.
It is not a difficult concept, and you see worship of things in many forms all over society.

yes, ty, i appreciate your definition, doesnt mean i agree or that it is true, but it does sound good ok. Even from satan's dialect? Speaking as if you knew? "That is this? This is that?

My chief disagreement at first blush would likely be this "obedience" part, which maybe you define worship as, and i agree i do, but see mjr will tell you that picking up your cross and following Him is blasphemy or something, a bad idea, and i dunno but after all you do call what you do on Solday in what you call "church" is "worship," right? Rather than love feast i mean?

 

[bbyrd009]

I like your projection, about knowledge and pastors. Studying theology and beliefs often means one knows more than pastors who are taken up with caring for people and delivering basic precepts every sunday to their congregations. So I suggest you quote your source of mithraism as historically we only know of this cult, completely male followers, through their temples and inscriptions. Atheist's love to link the bull cult and christianity because they hope to undermine the gospel but fail. The early church fathers write about all the heresies, and mithraism is not one that was an issue, because it is so different, it is obviously a different religion.

the early "church" fathers, Paul's wolves, all wanted to goto heaven and become immortals when they died too i guess, and wadr they can kiss my grits. My source of Mithraism...sorry, but this is something you have to realize yourself i guess, what do mithraist/cult of sol believe? Essentially that "greys" cease to exist, and those who do fab enough works get to become immortal, and get transported to the Elysian Fields after they have died, via Apollos (Mercury)

btw youre a Patriot, right? Those names sounding fam to you at all? I know this is a big pill to swallow, ok, i dont even expect much agreement here tbh. Fwiw im still a hypocrite too ok, when i walk both feet touch the ground and everything lol.

 

[FollowHim]

the early "church" fathers, Paul's wolves, all wanted to goto heaven and become immortals when they died too i guess, and wadr they can kiss my grits. My source of Mithraism...sorry, but this is something you have to realize yourself i guess, what do mithraist/cult of sol believe? Essentially that "greys" cease to exist, and those who do fab enough works get to become immortal, and get transported to the Elysian Fields after they have died, via Apollos (Mercury)

btw youre a Patriot, right? Those names sounding fam to you at all? I know this is a big pill to swallow, ok, i dont even expect much agreement here tbh. Fwiw im still a hypocrite too ok, when i walk both feet touch the ground and everything lol.

You sound like a free grace theological follower, and regard the appeal to righteous walking or walking the straight path as heresy.
I would love to say belief is everything, the burden is lifted etc. except Jesus simply asks us to walk His path with the Holy Spirit which is easy and light.

Being enticed by sin is like being in a haze, it makes sense by overwhelming sensations, but equally is just that, pointless.
The kingdom of light is about seeing and accepting consequences, and working with limitations and in the confines of what
is possible, while lawlessness abandons these limits and lets excess reign.

"Greys" what are they? There are groups who believe in other entities, so to which do you belong?

 

[FollowHim]

yes, ty, i appreciate your definition, doesnt mean i agree or that it is true, but it does sound good ok. Even from satan's dialect? Speaking as if you knew? "That is this? This is that?

My chief disagreement at first blush would likely be this "obedience" part, which maybe you define worship as, and i agree i do, but see mjr will tell you that picking up your cross and following Him is blasphemy or something, a bad idea, and i dunno but after all you do call what you do on Solday in what you call "church" is "worship," right? Rather than love feast i mean?

I go to church to worship Jesus with my brothers and sisters in Christ, to have fellowship and encourage one another.
And yes at the breaking of bread, it is a love feast, and also carrying our cross daily, and giving time and space to Jesus and His calling.

 

[FollowHim]

the early "church" fathers, Paul's wolves

I do not know how I would regard various early church fathers, but I would not call them wolves.
Wolves is a specific term from various behaviours and heresies, which if you want to say someone is teaching, you need to be very specific and so it can be seen in balance.

I would hold augustine introduced gnostic heresy into the church with concepts of a pure spirit in a fleshly unredeemable body, meaning once one had died, the spirit in perfection could continue in heaven. This abdicated responsibility for sin on earth or a desire to walk the straight path as this is impossible without true cleansing and purification. Some have taken these ideas and now run with them, with certain ideas of secure salvation, where they are the elect irrespective of faith or behaviour, which in other words is saying adopt this world view and behave as you deem fit.

I mention this because this is an example of working out ones criticism of a group and their theological origins and failures.
It is not being judgemental, it is saying what is actually happening and the consequences of such a belief system.

 

[bbyrd009]

You sound like a free grace theological follower, and regard the appeal to righteous walking or walking the straight path as heresy.

look no offense meant ok but i am the one Quoting Scripture that you are ignoring in favor of calling me various derogatory names ok. Actually walking i am all in favor of; have you walked out your front door and gone to another town, as we are told to do? Stayed in one house, ate what they fed you? So no offense, srsly, and even ty for your opinion and all, but i dont know what free-grace-theo followers believe, and i bet none of them would exactly agree with your def anyway, right? brb on the rest, might be a minute.

But wadr "never mind that, what about this?" is prolly not gonna cut it ok? You and your sons will be here with me bac could you address this? ty