The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[BreadOfLife]

I am ant-Catholicism. I have nothing against you personally over the fact that you are a Catholic.
(although your accusing me of being a liar is getting kind of old...and is a lie in itself, on your part).

Snd there you go lying again.
I caught you in a lies oin your last post when YOU claimed:
"The fact is that as long as you worship a vicar in place of Christ, and/or consider that the Cross of Christ is not all-sufficient to bring you forgiveness of sins (but that Mary is co-redemptress) your soul is in mortal danger."

That is a flat-out LIE.
I don't worship ANYBODY other than God.

Don't tell me not to expose you when you lie.
As long as you do, I will expose it - so either stop lying or stop whining about getting caught.

 

[BreadOfLife]

My belief does not depart from what the church has believed about the Trinity for the past 2,000 years. It does not contradict any of the creeds. But it does add understanding about the Oneness of the Lord in the context of His three-ness.

No kidding...and the statement he is making about sin is that as an element it indwells all of us...not that it is inevitable but that we will continue to commit it in this life. Otherwise the command to repent is null and void...because no one can repent, since they must again sin at some point in the near future.

Romans 7:14 is the beginning of the passage. Paul identifies himself as carnal in order to define carnality. He sets forth his own life as carnal, in the rest of Romans 7:14-25, although he himself is not carnal...otherwise he could not be an author of holy scripture...2 Peter 1:21.

I don't claim that I, personally, do not sin...my claim is that I don't sin at any given moment that I am abiding in Jesus Christ...1 John 3:6.

It actually says to confess your faults one to another...and this scripture may actually be a step that a man takes in order to become born again. Because James, and other books of holy scripture, apply to unbelievers as well as believers. They may be written to believers; but their application is to all; since the authors understand that there are unbelievers who will come underneath the teaching of what they would write.

If anyone has a living and saving faith (a heart faith that is unto righteousness, Romans 10:10, as opposed to a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith, Luke 8:13), then they have everlasting life (John 5:24, John 6:47, John 10:27-30) because they have an everlasting faith (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, 1 Peter 1:5).

I should hope not! For if anyone did worship the Pope, they would be in everlasting condemnation according to Revelation 14:9-11.

However, the Pope is Christ's physical representative on the earth according to Catholic doctrine. Therefore, I wouldn't put it past the Catholic Church to at some point say that if you worship the Pope you are in effect worshiping Christ.

For they did the same with the Jesus cookie.

When in doubt - ALWAYS go to the original Greek.
The Greek word used in James 5:15, 16 & 20 is ham-ar-tee'-ah (ηαμαρτια) - and it means, among other things, "SIN". James is telling CHRISTIANS to confess their SINS. In verse 20, after telling them to call for the Presbyters (Priests) to pray over the sick - he says that if they have SINS, they will be forgiven upon the prayer of the Priest.

As for what Paul said in Rom. 7:15-25 - you are being dishonest again because you completely left out the fact that he is differentiating indwelt sin and sins he is committing. as a Christian.

As to your lie that I exposed - the fact remains that you claimed that I "worship" the Pope. Like I said before - stop whining about getting caught - or simply stop lying.

As to your final thoughts on the Eucharist - who is "they"??
The belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist goes ALL the way back to the Apostles and their immediate successors.

Here, Paul speaks to the reality of the Eucharist and the severity of the consequences to those who take this lightly:
1 Corinthians 11:27-30
“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.”

This is pretty harsh language for something that Protestants claim is only a "symbol".

Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, student of the Apostle John wrote this on his way to be martyred in Rome at the turn of the 2nd century:
"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).

This is what YOU irreverently refer to as a "Jesus cookie".
Good luck with that when you are being judged by Him . . .


Finally - here is PROTESTANT Pastor Frances Chan who recently "discovered" this Early Church truth has changed his mind on the Real Presence and the Eucharist:

 

[justbyfaith]

when I sank the 5th Point (P - Perseverance of the saints)

Nope, you didn't sink it by a long shot....to do that, you would have to destroy specific scriptures in the Bible that teach the doctrine, or cut them out of your Bible (but keep Revelation 22:19 in mind).

God is ALWAYS faithful.
WE are NOT (Rom. 7:15-25, Gal. 2:11-13, 1 John 1:8, James 5:16).

That's how,

If the fear of the LORD be in our hearts, we will be faithful and will not depart from Him (Jeremiah 32:38-40, Psalms 19:9).

I caught you in a lies oin your last post when YOU claimed:
"The fact is that as long as you worship a vicar in place of Christ, and/or consider that the Cross of Christ is not all-sufficient to bring you forgiveness of sins (but that Mary is co-redemptress) your soul is in mortal danger."

That is a flat-out LIE.
I don't worship ANYBODY other than God.

I did not specifically state that you worship the Pope. It was a statement that as long as you worship the Pope (if you were to do so), and/or consider that the Cross of Christ isn't all-sufficient, your soul is in mortal danger.

It was an if-then statement; and not an absolute statement saying that you specifically worship the Pope..."as long as"...

But you are out to condemn and I'm certain that you cannot see that.

But I notice that you said nothing about the other thing that I laid before you as something you might do as a Catholic that would put your soul in mortal danger...and that is, holding Mary as co-redemptress so that you do not hold the blood of Jesus to be all-sufficient. And what I have said by my statement is that either one of these beliefs/practices would put your soul in mortal danger.

But because you protested against one and did not protest against the other, I assume that you hold to the concept of Mary as co-redemptress...and I say to you verily that this puts your soul in mortal danger...just as your soul would be in mortal danger if you worshiped the Pope.

 

[Truther]

Wrong.

A priest chooses to live a life of celibacy - as Paul did (1 Cor. 7:7).
The fact that you can't understand this is proof positive that you have an unhealthy obsession with sex.

You should pray about it . . .

The priest is miserable. He has tendencies that are like any other man. He is unscripturally neutered by his Pope.

He only wonders what family life must be. Poor man.

 

[Truther]

Since when is smoking a cigar sinful??

Was Jesus's drinking alcohol sinful (Matt. 11:9, Luke 7:34)??

Jesus did not get folks drunk per the Hab 2 curse.
Jesus was not a smoker either.
Too bad the priest does not emulate Jesus, huh?

 

[Truther]

Leave it to YOU to cherry-pick Scripture so you can pervert it.
THIS is what it says in context”
Heb. 9:24-26
For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

NOW – compare this with the following words from just TWO chapters before:
Heb. 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since HE ALWAYS LIVES TO MAKE INTERCESSION FOR THEM.

Rev. 13:8 reminds us – as does Heb. 7:25 tells us that Christ’s sacrifice is ETERNAL.
Heb 9:24 is simply making the case that He doesn’t DIE over and over. His sacrifice - and intercession is FOREVER.

Your understanding of Scripture is pathetic . . .

No, Jesus put away sin and the priest digs it up.
The priest is really an investigator of put away sins.

 

[RogerDC]

Jesus was not a smoker either.
Too bad the priest does not emulate Jesus, huh?

Which verse says "Thou shalt not smoke"? Or did you just invent another man-made tradition?
Priests are not perfect - they're sinners too.

How many Christians would be willing to take vows of poverty and celibacy and devote their whole lives to the service of Christ, as Catholic priests do?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

BreadOfLife,

First of all – too many people – especially Calvinists – are confused about God’s “foreknowledge”. His foreknowledge doesn’t mean that He ordained the future – but that He knows it. God is outside of time and sees ALL of history simultaneously. He already knows what choices we made.

You do not understand biblical foreknowledge. Your guess here is wrong.

HOWEVER – this doesn’t mean that all of our future sins are forgiven because we haven’t repented of them yet. Your sins are ONLY forgiven when you repent of them. God is not a fool like so many people believe – and His forgiveness is conditional on our penitence.

This is the false teaching of a works gospel that cannot save.You do not understand biblical salvation.

 

[RogerDC]

Priests only wish they could, but their masters refuse to let them....unscripturally.

Which Scripture says "Thou shalt not choose to be celibate"?

And what's that the apostle Paul said about celibacy being an honourable condition? And didn't he say a married man is divided between His wife and God, whereas a single man is not divided?

 

[mjrhealth]

Which Scripture says "Thou shalt not choose to be celibate"?

And what's that the apostle Paul said about celibacy being an honourable condition? And didn't he say a married man is divided between His wife and God, whereas a single man is not divided?

But religious men have to choose between there religion and Christ. most prefer there religions, thats why there are so many religions and why Christ has so much time on His hands.. Than one need to be called into that position and very few if any actually are.

 

[RogerDC]

BreadOfLife,
You do not understand biblical foreknowledge. Your guess here is wrong.

This is the false teaching of a works gospel that cannot save.You do not understand biblical salvation.

I'm probably getting off-topic here, but my understandi is Calvinism says Jesus died only for those who are predestined to be saved. If that is so, doesn't the following verse contradict that doctrine?

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1John 2:2

 

[RogerDC]

But religious men have to choose between there religion and Christ. most prefer there religions

What are you talking about? To any Catholic, and especially a priest, Christ IS their religion.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I'm probably getting off-topic here, but my understandi is Calvinism says Jesus died only for those who are predestined to be saved. If that is so, doesn't the following verse contradict that doctrine?

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1John 2:2

Jesus died a Covenant death for All the father gave to Him. No more , no less.
In 1jn 2;2 the words the sins of are not in the text but were added.
2 and he -- he is a propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world,

God's elect children are scattered worldwide;
jn11:
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

 

[mjrhealth]

What are you talking about? To any Catholic, and especially a priest, Christ IS their religion.

I was born and raised a catholic I am not so ignorant. Christ is not a religion, that is a man made thingy. that keeps men in church and away from Him, Jesus that is.

 

[Truther]

Which Scripture says "Thou shalt not choose to be celibate"?

And what's that the apostle Paul said about celibacy being an honourable condition? And didn't he say a married man is divided between His wife and God, whereas a single man is not divided?

The early church never demanded anyone, including ministry to be celibate.
Another church made that one up.

 

[Truther]

Which verse says "Thou shalt not smoke"? Or did you just invent another man-made tradition?
Priests are not perfect - they're sinners too.

How many Christians would be willing to take vows of poverty and celibacy and devote their whole lives to the service of Christ, as Catholic priests do?

Does the Spirit of God teach us that smoking is fine?
I think young Catholics that join the clergy have little idea the anguish in the flesh they are getting into.
The mass perversion we know of is evidence of what I am saying.

 

[prism]

What are you talking about? To any Catholic, and especially a priest, Christ IS their religion.

The way I have learned the difference between 'religion' and 'Jesus Christ' is that religion is man's attempt to reach and please God, whereas Jesus is God personally reaching down in His mercy and saving man.

 

[justbyfaith]

Eternity: smoking or non-smoking?

Your choice.

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm probably getting off-topic here, but my understandi is Calvinism says Jesus died only for those who are predestined to be saved. If that is so, doesn't the following verse contradict that doctrine?

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1John 2:2

Predestination is according to foreknowledge (Romans 8:29-30, 1 Peter 1:2).

What that verse (1 John 2:2) is saying is that Jesus died for everyone.

Only a few actually take advantage of the free gift, however (actually receiving it).

God knows ahead of time who will receive and who will not receive; and actively works in order to apprehend the ones that He knows will make it. To the extent that it can be said that He chose them but they didn't choose Him.

Nevertheless His choice of them is based on His foreknowledge of their choice.

It has to do with the fact that God is outside of time.

And all of the credit for our salvation goes to Him.

 

[07-07-07]

Anyone who refuses to be sanctified by the Lord is a bastard, not a Child of the Highest.

Hebrews 12
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.