Hi DNB,
Thanks for reading my post and replying. I am really enjoying this conversation and seeing how it is you understand things and comparing it to mine.
Great site of scripture, where Jesus said "forgive them for they know not what they do!" That makes me think also of a number of scriptures in OT where the punishment is different for those who sinned out of ignorance not knowing the law.
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
God knew Adam and Eve would sin, He knew they were incapable of keeping the commandment. Such is why God promised grace by Jesus Christ before the world even began. The plan for a savior to come who would be slain for our sins was established by God before the world was.
YOU: But, it was not impossible for Adam & Eve to obey, that would be entirely ludicrous and unjust on God's part. For, this was the whole point of Christ, and why that he is called the 2nd Adam. Both Adam & Jesus had an equal playing field, Adam disobeyed and Christ obeyed.
ME: I don't see them as having the same playing field. In Isaiah 11, 42, 45, and 61, Jesus was the only mortal to have received God's glory, the only man to receive the Spirit of God not by measure, he was called to righteousness where God held his hand and kept him, he did not sin, he did not follow his own will, but that of God's as God was directing all his ways. Adam and Eve followed their own will as that is all God gave them besides the commandment. God was not holding their hand and keeping them from sin, they weren't called to righteousness having God direct all their ways.
Jesus is said to have been PERFECTED through suffering where he LEARNED OBEDIENCE going to the cross. Jesus was tempted just like we all are tempted, he did not sin because God was with him directing all his ways. He overcame temptation because the power of God's Spirit was a stronger influence over him than that of his own carnal mind that wanted him to obey his weak mortal flesh and serve the flesh in order to live. Jesus "condemned sin in the flesh" and he was able to do it through God directing all his ways, through God's Spirit resting upon him and influencing him.
Yes God created man in His own image, and God also declared the END from the Beginning. We are told that we are to be made into the image of His Son, and the Son is identified as the firstborn of the dead of many brethren (Romans 8). Jesus learned obedience and was perfected, died, and then was raised receiving eternal life, that which God had promised unto man before the world was, he received it first, and then he was given authority to give it unto others. He had a weak mortal body but he went to his death having displayed an ultimate act of FAITH in God. No doubt he believed in God's Word concerning himself from 1 Chronicles 17, Isaiah 53, Psalm 8 and 89.
Adam and Eve did not have a weak mortal body when they sinned, but they were ignorant and through such they only knew to follow their own will, and thus they had a lack of faith that led them to their sin.
Jesus however was born with a weak mortal body but he grew as a child with God's grace upon him where he was strengthened in his spirit and was being filled with wisdom. He then at around the age of 30 had the Spirit descend upon him like a dove where he left the river Jordan having been filled with the Spirit, filled without measure, having been called to righteousness to have God direct all his ways, this was called an ANOINTING where he was Chrio made into the Christos, and God then SENT him out into the world. Jesus quotes this fulfilled word of God having been made true in his flesh in Luke for 4 where the purpose was for him to go out into the world and preach God's word, heal, deliver captives from darkness, be for a light. Fulfill all of God's will.
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
The operation of God is faith that God perfects us as He perfected Jesus, we are raised to be heirs of God joint heirs with Christ (Romans 8), who was perfected having had the fullness of God's anointing Spirit upon him. Also as said in Romans 8, the Spirit is a witness to our Spirit that we are children of God, and those that are LED/influenced by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
Thanks for reading my post and replying. I am really enjoying this conversation and seeing how it is you understand things and comparing it to mine.
Great site of scripture, where Jesus said "forgive them for they know not what they do!" That makes me think also of a number of scriptures in OT where the punishment is different for those who sinned out of ignorance not knowing the law.
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
God knew Adam and Eve would sin, He knew they were incapable of keeping the commandment. Such is why God promised grace by Jesus Christ before the world even began. The plan for a savior to come who would be slain for our sins was established by God before the world was.
YOU: But, it was not impossible for Adam & Eve to obey, that would be entirely ludicrous and unjust on God's part. For, this was the whole point of Christ, and why that he is called the 2nd Adam. Both Adam & Jesus had an equal playing field, Adam disobeyed and Christ obeyed.
ME: I don't see them as having the same playing field. In Isaiah 11, 42, 45, and 61, Jesus was the only mortal to have received God's glory, the only man to receive the Spirit of God not by measure, he was called to righteousness where God held his hand and kept him, he did not sin, he did not follow his own will, but that of God's as God was directing all his ways. Adam and Eve followed their own will as that is all God gave them besides the commandment. God was not holding their hand and keeping them from sin, they weren't called to righteousness having God direct all their ways.
Jesus is said to have been PERFECTED through suffering where he LEARNED OBEDIENCE going to the cross. Jesus was tempted just like we all are tempted, he did not sin because God was with him directing all his ways. He overcame temptation because the power of God's Spirit was a stronger influence over him than that of his own carnal mind that wanted him to obey his weak mortal flesh and serve the flesh in order to live. Jesus "condemned sin in the flesh" and he was able to do it through God directing all his ways, through God's Spirit resting upon him and influencing him.
Yes God created man in His own image, and God also declared the END from the Beginning. We are told that we are to be made into the image of His Son, and the Son is identified as the firstborn of the dead of many brethren (Romans 8). Jesus learned obedience and was perfected, died, and then was raised receiving eternal life, that which God had promised unto man before the world was, he received it first, and then he was given authority to give it unto others. He had a weak mortal body but he went to his death having displayed an ultimate act of FAITH in God. No doubt he believed in God's Word concerning himself from 1 Chronicles 17, Isaiah 53, Psalm 8 and 89.
Adam and Eve did not have a weak mortal body when they sinned, but they were ignorant and through such they only knew to follow their own will, and thus they had a lack of faith that led them to their sin.
Jesus however was born with a weak mortal body but he grew as a child with God's grace upon him where he was strengthened in his spirit and was being filled with wisdom. He then at around the age of 30 had the Spirit descend upon him like a dove where he left the river Jordan having been filled with the Spirit, filled without measure, having been called to righteousness to have God direct all his ways, this was called an ANOINTING where he was Chrio made into the Christos, and God then SENT him out into the world. Jesus quotes this fulfilled word of God having been made true in his flesh in Luke for 4 where the purpose was for him to go out into the world and preach God's word, heal, deliver captives from darkness, be for a light. Fulfill all of God's will.
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
The operation of God is faith that God perfects us as He perfected Jesus, we are raised to be heirs of God joint heirs with Christ (Romans 8), who was perfected having had the fullness of God's anointing Spirit upon him. Also as said in Romans 8, the Spirit is a witness to our Spirit that we are children of God, and those that are LED/influenced by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: