Why Does God Damn People To Hell If He Is All Loving?
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I agree, I am sorry if I implied that they were. God is a consuming fire. I believe hell is for purging and purifying.
The scriptures say that nothing can so I would say no.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I agree, I am sorry if I implied that they were. God is a consuming fire. I believe hell is for purging and purifying.
Well, like I have said before; a temporary Hell is a great idea and I really hope it turns out that way.....but I still cannot see that it is possible without annihilation of the unredeemed self, formed by free will. Since the unredeemed are not justified or sanctified, only the unredeemed self exists and would have to be annihilated and remade into a redeemed self, which would be unrecognizable from the former self. It would be like a second flood for the unredeemed, without a Noah.
As much as I disagree with Millerites, the idea of the annihilation of the unredeemed soul is slightly more believable in my mind than a temporary Hell.
I think it will be strange to look back on this with eternal eyes because what was so unclear will be so clear we will wonder why we bothered to argue about it - it will be like we were toddlers trying to understand the concept of past, present and future.
Now, I cannot help imagining someone commenting "the Bible never says we are toddlers" :)
Oh ok so God only loves those that love Him.LOL
Ever hear of this scripture?
If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, [fn] how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect Matt.5:46-48
That would certainly exclude BILLIONS of people.
That still leaves only a "FEW". So then, how many is a FEW?
Matthew 7:14 (NKJV)
[sup]14 [/sup]Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
How many is a FEW?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
why do some Christians expect higher ethical standards from humans than from the God who gave us the standards in the first place?
I agree with what Christ says here, there are two paths in this life, a narrow difficult one leading to life and an broad easy one leading to hell. But I disagree with man's interpretation of the duration of hell and unending torment because the scriptures also say; "For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross."
How many is "everything"?
But consider this. Christ also suffered when he died for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners that he might bring us safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So He went and preached to the spirits in prison— those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. 1Peter 3:18-20
Shouldn't our eschatology agree with our soteriology and our christology?
th1b.taylor
Active Member
jiggyfly,
The very first verse does indeed tell to and of whom this passage is spoken and it is exclusively for those that love God... however... nowhere in scripture do I find that God hates any of His Creation. He loves and will still love those He sends to Hell! i.e. When I refused to bail one of my sons out of Jail and to hire him a good lawyer because he "was" guilty of the Felony he was charged with, I still loved him just as much as I did the day he was born and I love him now and did also when he was sentenced and locked up. Love is a great decision, it is not just some emotion.
The very first verse does indeed tell to and of whom this passage is spoken and it is exclusively for those that love God... however... nowhere in scripture do I find that God hates any of His Creation. He loves and will still love those He sends to Hell! i.e. When I refused to bail one of my sons out of Jail and to hire him a good lawyer because he "was" guilty of the Felony he was charged with, I still loved him just as much as I did the day he was born and I love him now and did also when he was sentenced and locked up. Love is a great decision, it is not just some emotion.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
The problem is that Jesus's death and resurrection did nothing to redeem the hearts of those who choose to remain unredeemed - at least here on earth. So we are left here struggling, while the bad seem to get worse - now, I do not mind this from a just world position - if God can work with them after death, cool! But....I worry about the capacity for love in a heart that has lived a life of self-centered, cruelty......
Yeah...I like the verse you provided - I've always looked at it in a traditional sense, but who knows? For me, discussing Hell is counter-productive to witnessing the gospel.
I forgot if I have already asked, but have you read George MacDonald?
It is funny - I believe in Hell, but the only time I ever talk about it as doctrine is with conservative Christians.....it keeps coming up!
The Sermon on the Mount is filled with Jesus' teachings that religious men reject. Jesus has clearly warned that He will reject them too. They shall not enter the Kingdom of God. You're teaching doesn't fly Jiggy.I agree with what Christ says here, there are two paths in this life, a narrow difficult one leading to life and an broad easy one leading to hell. But I disagree with man's interpretation of the duration of hell and unending torment because the scriptures also say; "For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross."
How many is "everything"?
Matthew 7:21 (NKJV)
[sup]21 [/sup]"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Matthew 7:23 (NKJV)
[sup]23 [/sup]And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Joshua David...we must ask ourselves first...what is the Lake of Fire?
I believe John said it was the "second death". Okay...the next question
we should ask is...what is the "first death"? Well, the first death is our
mortality we received from the first Adam.
During the final age of judgment upon the sinners, the believers will
inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5). These believers are the Body of Christ.
They are the sons of God, who manifest Christ fully in His character
and in His works. As such, they will receive a sacred responsibility of
doing what He did. At the Great White Throne, the Judge of all the earth
will sentence all unbelieving sinners by imposing upon them the debt
incurred for every sin they ever committed. All sinners will be held fully
accountable according to their deeds, as Revelation 20:12 and 13
clearly tells us.
However, the law also mandates that there must always be provision
for redemption of the land or any portion of it. Leviticus 25:23, 24 says,
23 The land, moreover, shall not be sold permanently, for
the land is Mine; for you are but aliens and sojourners with
Me.
24 Thus for every piece of your property, you are to provide
for the redemption of the land.
All men are made of the dust of the ground, beginning with Adam
(Gen. 2:7). God owns all the land, including us, by right of creation.
And so, the law above applies to all mankind. There must always be
a provision for redemption of the land. God's only justification for this
law is on the grounds that He owns all the land and therefore has
the right to set the terms of men's inheriting His land.
Since God will judge the whole earth according to His law, this
provision is very important. It gives us the basic outline of what life
will be like during that final age of judgment. Redeemers will
purchase their debt note and thereby receive authority over the
sinners. This sheds light on Jesus' parable in Luke 19, where He
spoke of the righteous receiving authority over ten cities, or five, or
even just one city. Who will they rule? What will be the basis of their
authority?
The answer is in the law, which prophesies that which shall be. The
righteous will be given authority over debtors to the law—those who
did not avail themselves of Jesus' provision to pay their debt. The
sinners will be placed as servants of the sons of God.
The sons of God will receive authority, but also the responsibility to
teach them righteousness. In Paul's application of the laws of
redemption, (Rom. 6:22) the purpose of redemption was
“sanctification and the outcome, eternal life.” Thus, each believer
who inherits the earth will act as a redeemer (under Christ, of course)
and be given authority over a certain number of judged sinners. These
will serve out their sentences as “slaves of righteousness.”
The believers' responsibility will be to teach the sinners the love of
God and His ways. Isaiah 26:9 says,
9 “When the earth experiences Thy judgments, the inhabitants
of the world learn righteousness.”
How will they learn? The believers will teach them through discipline
when necessary, but always in love. In many ways it will be like parents
training children by combining love with discipline.
These debtors, the law says, must serve their redeemers until their
debt is paid, or until the Jubilee. In past times when the Law of God
was enforced in the land of Israel, the sinner was held accountable
for what he did overtly. The sinner was then restored to grace insofar
as the nation was concerned, but such judgment did not address the
underlying heart problem that all men received from Adam. Thus, the
judgment was limited in its scope, and so also the grace and
forgiveness that the sinner received.
But in that final age of judgment, God will address these deeper
issues. The judgment must address not only the sins of the individual
sinners, but also the debt of their fathers all the way back to Adam.
Romans 5:12 tells us that because of Adam's sin, death (mortality)
passed into all men—which means that all men are paying for Adam's
sin and not merely their own sins. We are born mortal because of
something Adam did. This is the deeper issue that puts us all in need
of a Redeemer.
Those who did not take advantage of Jesus' redemptive work on the
Cross must yet find redeemers at the Great White Throne, for there
is no way they will be able to pay the debt that they owe. Theoretically,
perhaps, some good people might be able to pay their debt, especially
if they died young without doing much wrong to their neighbors. Will
such people be able to pay their debt to the law within a few years?
Yes—however, they will also still be liable for the original sin of Adam,
even as we see today. This debt is unpayable, and so they will have to
serve their redeemers until that final Jubilee mandates the cancellation
of all debt. Hence, the Jubilee law mandates in Leviticus 25:54,
54 Even if he is not redeemed by these means, he shall still
go out in the year of Jubilee, he and his sons with him.
The unbelievers are still the children of the first Adam, who received
this liability for sin that resulted in mortality. Only believers have
become the children of the Last Adam, Jesus Christ. And so, all
unbelievers will have to remain under the authority of the sons of God
until the year of Jubilee. Then all creation—Adam and his sons with
him—will be set free into the glorious liberty of the sons of God
(Rom. 8:21).
21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its
slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the
children of God.
By the way...I do like your name.[/size]
Logabe
Robbie
New Member
I don't have an opinion on the whole hell thing really but someone asked for a scripture to support jiggy's opinion and I thought of this
1 Corinthians 3
For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [sup]12[/sup] Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, [sup]13[/sup] each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. [sup]14[/sup] If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. [sup]15[/sup] If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
The one thing I don't think God will do is force salvation on someone... a gift can only be received or rejected... not earned or forced upon...
Since Christ is Salvation I believe that rejecting Him is rejecting the gift... yet if we build on Him and blow it it says we can still be saved yet as through fire... whatever that mean... I know hell is associated with fire... but I wouldn't build a religion out of any of that...
Ultimately the Lords will is that everyone would be saved... it's just up to whether we reject His will.. or should I say reject the gift of salvation... Jesus Christ...
1 Corinthians 3
For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [sup]12[/sup] Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, [sup]13[/sup] each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. [sup]14[/sup] If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. [sup]15[/sup] If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
The one thing I don't think God will do is force salvation on someone... a gift can only be received or rejected... not earned or forced upon...
Since Christ is Salvation I believe that rejecting Him is rejecting the gift... yet if we build on Him and blow it it says we can still be saved yet as through fire... whatever that mean... I know hell is associated with fire... but I wouldn't build a religion out of any of that...
Ultimately the Lords will is that everyone would be saved... it's just up to whether we reject His will.. or should I say reject the gift of salvation... Jesus Christ...
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