Why Does God Damn People To Hell If He Is All Loving?

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jiggyfly

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The only conflict here is the category error in your thinking.

Joh 10:17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
Joh 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."

Now tell me, does the Bible say Jesus had to be damned in the Lake of Fire? No, it doesn't.

Does the BIble say that unbelievers will be damned in the Lake of Fire? Yes, it does.

The problem here isn't that Scripture isn't clear enough. The problem here is your unBilical reasoning. There is no conflict.

Was Jesus punished for your sins? If so how was He punished?

This concept of the eons, or ages, is obscured by translating zoen aionion
as “life everlasting” and kolasin aionion as “everlasting punishment.”
(Matthew 25:46). The fact is that neither is “everlasting.” Certainly, immortality
itself is life that never ends. But “age-during life” points specifically to AN AGE
when some believers will enjoy the blessings of immortal life. And “age-during
judgment” points specifically to AN AGE of judgment for unbelievers.


Logabe

As always, great post Logabe.
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aspen

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Hell is God's Mercy, remember?

I am gone for a couple of days and everyone forgets......
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rockytopva

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And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.- Exodus 32: 31-33




I would live this Christian life to the best of my ability and let the Lord worry about the book of life and all the aftermath.
 

tomwebster

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And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.- Exodus 32: 31-33




I would live this Christian life to the best of my ability and let the Lord worry about the book of life and all the aftermath.


And remember, rt, their was a large group of people that died in connection with the Exodus 32 passage you quoted.
 

tim_from_pa

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The only conflict here is the category error in your thinking.

Joh 10:17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
Joh 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."

Now tell me, does the Bible say Jesus had to be damned in the Lake of Fire? No, it doesn't.

Does the BIble say that unbelievers will be damned in the Lake of Fire? Yes, it does.

The problem here isn't that Scripture isn't clear enough. The problem here is your unBilical reasoning. There is no conflict.

Nomad:

The bible does teach eternal fire, but it is eternal in its actions, not duration. Otherwise, there would be no death, but eternal life in torment. Jesus said that he came so that people not perish, i.e. in that fire which consumes them. I don't know of any maggots or fires that go on forever except they are ineffectual.

Once I burned up a book I hated, and I tell people that it was burned in eternal fire --- it's gone forever. That fire is not burning today. It made the book to perish but that action is forever.
 

rockytopva

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And remember, rt, their was a large group of people that died in connection with the Exodus 32 passage you quoted.

In which... As our Lord Jesus emphasizes...

And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.- Luke 12: 4-5

I simply do not mess with God the Father. I had a guy in his 50's come to me at work telling me that he sins everyday, he said he figured that's what Jesus died for. I don't know but it was a short time later he walked out of work seemingly in perfect health, had a massive stroke, and was gone before the next weekend arrived.























 

archaeologist5

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Nomad...I believe it is the problem. We can't assume what the scriptures
mean but we have to look them up and make sure of our calling.

The Greek word aionios is the adjective form of aion, “pertaining to an age.”
Young's Concordance says that it means “age-lasting.” In his Bible
translation, he consistently translates the Greek word aionios into English
even more literally as “age-during” to show that it means the events occur
“during” whatever age the author was discussing.

For example, in Matthew 25:45, 46, we read,

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you,
Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of these, the least, ye did
it not to me.
46 And those shall go away to punishment age-during, but
the righteous to life age-during.


Rotherham's The Emphasized Bible, is much like Young's Literal Translation.
He renders verse 46,

46 And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but
the righteous into age-abiding life.


Benjamin Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott does not presume to render aionios
“everlasting,” but prefers to just transliterate it directly from the Greek. This
non-committal attitude allows men to interpret this word as they wish. He
renders verse 46:

46 And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the
righteous to aionian Life.


The Concordant Literal New Testament, renders verse 46,

46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian,
yet the just into life eonian.


In Matthew 19:29 Jesus spoke of the reward of the righteous, which is
zoen aionion. This is usually translated “life eternal” or “life everlasting.”
Dr. Young renders the verse,

29 and every one who left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or
father, or mother, or wife, or children, or fields, for my name's
sake, an hundredfold shall receive and life age-during shall
inherit.


What is the meaning of “life age-during?” Is it the same as immorality? Not
exactly. Immortality is a word describing the quality of life that we have after
death is abolished. Life that is “age-during,” describes the age in which we
shall have that immortality. That age is specifically what the ancient rabbis
called the “Messianic Age,” or “The Age.”

This concept of the eons, or ages, is obscured by translating zoen aionion
as “life everlasting” and kolasin aionion as “everlasting punishment.”
(Matthew 25:46). The fact is that neither is “everlasting.” Certainly, immortality
itself is life that never ends. But “age-during life” points specifically to AN AGE
when some believers will enjoy the blessings of immortal life. And “age-during
judgment” points specifically to AN AGE of judgment for unbelievers.


Logabe


it is a good thing God has not raised you up to re-translate His words. that is just bad work. i suffered through this decades ago, when the fad started in which every pastor and biblical student had to inject greek into their sermons every week. people need to submit to the Holy Spirit when they work with God's word.
 

aspen

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Once we are to that point in time, I expect they will not be happy about their fate, but it will have been their choice.

I agree. I think they will be forced to choose eternity in the presence of a Holy God or Hell - I doubt they will be able to really think about it because they will be too busy finding cover in Hell in order to escape God's Holiness, which they will perceive as wrath. I also think they will be incapable of taking responsibility for their choice to flee to Hell and believe they have been cheated. They will spent eternity alone, bitter and in complete despair.
 

jiggyfly

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God does not want any to perish but He knows that some will. When you read 2 Peter 3, you also need to have read 2 Peter 2.

So man's will is stronger than God's will?
blink.gif


I agree. I think they will be forced to choose eternity in the presence of a Holy God or Hell - I doubt they will be able to really think about it because they will be too busy finding cover in Hell in order to escape God's Holiness, which they will perceive as wrath. I also think they will be incapable of taking responsibility for their choice to flee to Hell and believe they have been cheated. They will spent eternity alone, bitter and in complete despair.



Do you base this on scripture?
 

tomwebster

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So man's will is stronger than God's will?
...


Did you read the Scripture, jig? You and I have had this discussion several times; there is NO reason to have it again. We will never agree on your universal reconciliation doctrine, it is a completely false doctrine.
 

aspen

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So man's will is stronger than God's will?
blink.gif






Do you base this on scripture?


Exodus 3:5-7: [sup]5[/sup] “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” [sup]6[/sup] Then he said, “I am the God of your father,[sup][a][/sup] the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

Isaiah 6:5-7 : [sup]5[/sup] “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.”

[sup]6[/sup] Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. [sup]7[/sup] With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.”


1 John 1:5: This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you:God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.


1 John 5:16: If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.


Revelation 21:27: [sup]27[/sup] Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.



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jiggyfly

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Exodus 3:5-7: [sup]5[/sup] “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” [sup]6[/sup] Then he said, “I am the God of your father,[sup][a][/sup] the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

Isaiah 6:5-7 : [sup]5[/sup] “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.”

[sup]6[/sup] Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. [sup]7[/sup] With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.”


1 John 1:5: This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you:God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.


1 John 5:16: If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.


Revelation 21:27: [sup]27[/sup] Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.



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Can you help me here, I am having some trouble reconciling these scriptures with your post.

I agree. I think they will be forced to choose eternity in the presence of a Holy God or Hell - I doubt they will be able to really think about it because they will be too busy finding cover in Hell in order to escape God's Holiness, which they will perceive as wrath. I also think they will be incapable of taking responsibility for their choice to flee to Hell and believe they have been cheated. They will spent eternity alone, bitter and in complete despair.

 

aspen

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Can you help me here, I am having some trouble reconciling these scriptures with your post.

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Really? Ok - well, I think they fit quite well.

1. The unredeemed will be separated from the redeemed during the Judgment.

2. The unredeemed will respond like Moses and Isaiah, but it will be too late

3. In order to escape God's Holiness, which will be perceived as wrath; the unredeemed will be allowed to flee into Hell. The same sort of prevision was set up by God for the offspring of Cain.

4. The sin that leads to death is the rejection of the justification and sanctification of God.



 

jiggyfly

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Really? Ok - well, I think they fit quite well.

1. The unredeemed will be separated from the redeemed during the Judgment.

2. The unredeemed will respond like Moses and Isaiah, but it will be too late

3. In order to escape God's Holiness, which will be perceived as wrath; the unredeemed will be allowed to flee into Hell. The same sort of prevision was set up by God for the offspring of Cain.

4. The sin that leads to death is the rejection of the justification and sanctification of God.

In the scriptures you posted I am not seeing anything about the unredeemed being separated , that it will be too late, escaping God's holiness, fleeing to hell. Is there possibly some other scriptures that helped you form this paradigm?

Gods judgements are just, people damn them selves.

So what are God's just judgments?

Are people their own judge?